The stadiums thing? Less is more, baby. Less is more.

Mates in Brisbane assure me that the Broncos arnt as popular as they seem - they say at least half the crowd is made up of opposition supporters most weeks

They've been moving low drawing games out of Melbourne for years... clubs make a killing out of it

It works too if you can get a good deal... in the AFL, the Melbourne footy club sells two home games to the Northern Territory. Last year a total of 20,000 attended the two games and the Demons pocketed about $700,000. At the MCG these games would have attracted a total of between 40000 and 50000 (combined) depending on the day and the scheduling - but instead of playing in front of a quater filled stadium and bearly making any money after the bills are payed they played in front of (all be it small) sell out crowds and showered in the cash after the games. For the record... 1 win 1 loss

I believe there is no better way to watch a game than on a hopefully sunny afternoon.We,also need to see more affordable ticket prices and food.Building a better and more modern stadium is not the way to attract more spectators I.e if the State of Origin was scheduled for Broken Hill,would you go,of course.Spectators go to the game for the product,not just to admire a new stadium!

They have very few home games yet they are still happy to play them in London. Spurs have already got a deal to host NFL matches at the new White Hart Lane this is go with the NFL matches that are already played at Wembley and Twickenham.

The Storm as I understand it, cease receiving subsidies from the 2018 Tv deals.They have ,like the rest of the Nrl clubs to rely on the NRL grant same for all clubs, no extra special payments,no Cost of living payments, $80m pa?? Where did you get that figure?Maybe in total over the years when News owned them.No NRL club works on $80m pa. GWS was supposed to base themselves at Blacktown,the Local council/state Govt also put up monies millions in fact,on that basis, then they decided Breakfast Creek was more inviting.GWS also receives $2.3m pa from the ACT GOVt to play 3 matches PA over 10 years.They created their own bad publicity there. The Swans got decent press from the day they arrived in this city ala Barry Round/Lady Faiirfax garden party,more so after the SL war.Then their crowds were far less than the Storm today. Based on Perry's comment,it can also be argued when the Storm made the G/Fs the publicity they received in Melbourne was far less than the Swans in this city. It may well get double the Storn's crowds ,considering it's been in Sydney for nearly twice as long still gets ordinary Tv rating here, but it gets far greater publicity well in excess of the coverage the Storm receives.That has been the case from day one for both. In this city both the SMH and News give decent . coverage to the Swans.In Melbourne the Age gives SFA most of the time. "GWS got bad press", flicking Blacktown,getting an upgraded stadium in place whilst being the new kids on the block.,the Swans were not happy either.Yet i've read a stack of stories on their Muslim female team, their players,John Stanley of 2UE gives them constant raps. if you want to see bad press read Paul Kent,Peter FitzSimons on the NRL in the Telegraph and SMH. A classic example in 2005 the Swans get a street parade in Sydney,the NRL winners the West Tigers get zero. The Storm in Melbourne with their G/F wins get a gathering in some plaza. Storm in place 20 years,Swans 35 years nearly double. Perry is an AFL fan who works on the basis ,the littlest bit of coverage for other codes is ,more than enough.I rely on my experience and those of others,. Ironic when it comes to new stadiums in Sydney,,they(AFL fans) are among the first to protest the rectangular games getting their fair share. And that fact was reinforced by the Swan's Pridham today ,who ideally would want ANZ to remain in its current configuration.As did Shepherd from GWS.

Crosscoder - apologies if you thought the conspiracy theory was directed at you. Perry Bridge also makes some very valid points. Don't the Storm still receive subsidies - I know they used to get around $80m a year, which is a good idea for start up clubs - look at GWS, you don't wamt them withering on the vine. As per Perry's point - don't you think that given Sydney has 2 AFL teams and one that gets over double the Storms crowds, that they therefore should get over double the media space? Again, as per Perry, GWS did get bad press in Sydney, but I always think bad press is better than, as you mention 'the no one cares' factor. Justin Kearney - do you not see the irony of anyone contributing to a discussion who doesn't agree that RL is the greatest game of all being labelled a AFL fanboy when you come across as a huge RL fanboy? This was a reasonable discussion, with reasonable points added, and all you can do if besmirch and ridicule - if you don't agree, put up a counter argument. The whole tenant of my point was that the Swans and Storm are similar in many ways - long periods of continued support, great reputation and coaching, recruitment (the Storm would be ahead on this), therefore if one or the other had a long lean spell, you would assume that crowds would fall - it wouldn't just be the Swans at Cathar suggested.

The growth of the Big Bash league is something to watch out for. Nationwide the ticket sales already are very strong. The cricket stadiums may need looking at if the growth continues. A lot interest out there. Seems to get bigger every year.

PR The comparisons between the Storm and the Swan's media coverage is laughable.No matter how much you throw the News Southern Comfort' in.The Age barely gives the code the time of day. In Sydney at least both the Snoring Herald and the Telerap give daily up date and news on that club ,and in many cases GWS, Seriously mate,to get any sport coverage in a city that is besotted with AFL is a miracle.If you don't know that, you know little about the southern media. I think you need to hear the comments on the Offsiders on Sunday about the NRL from Waleed Aly,Caro Wilson serving it up to the NRL.It's supposed to be our ABC, LOL. deucer.your post followed mine, not addressed to a specific person,thus assumed it was directed at moi, that's all. Lazarus was at the back end of his career,Kearnety a solid former hard working Shark's player,Kimmorely was the best of the 3 and certainly not then in the star class coming in from SL.The comparisons of that group with the likes of Franklin/Locket/Hall pales mate. The Storm did not get high profile stars.The 3 current ones were all developed as youngsters under particularly the Bellamy tutelage.

Except the NRL needs 16 clubs to fulfill its broadcasting contract and get paid its 2 billion dollars so I don't think the NRL is going to let any clubs die off.

Nice to see you copying my language petal. Apart from that what a rant. You afl fanboys really need to find something worthwhile to do over the off season.

Melbourne Storm always gets a fair ride via the News Ltd Herald Sun. One might argue they got 'overs' at times. The Herald Sun though has not gone the knife into the code (of RL) when they came to set up shop in Melbourne town (strange that - at the time News Ltd owned the Storm and half the NRL). So - it's always a laugh to hear NRL folk suggest the conspiracy went the other way!!! And what we have seen clearly in Sydney is the News Ltd Daily Telegraph go the knife into the code of AFL and the Giants back around 2008-2009. Childish stuff at the time by the paper but the NRL fanboys lapped up the lies and Roy Masters over at the SMH was able to run with the old "it's been reported" to allow him to perpetuate the lies. But yeah - the conspiracy ran the other way - didn't it!!!

Economics will dictate whether clubs, in their current form will survive. The NRL simply cannot afford to bail out any more clubs. They have made that clear. It seems they have high hopes that the new stadiums will be the games saviour in Sydney.

Read this theory from Dr Fujak a few weeks ago and it's worth considering. Don't necessarily agree with the point that you can't force teams out. In principle, the NRL is a defined comp and they could invite / expel whom ever they wished. For example, they won't let North Sydney back in (for good reasons). So obviously it's not just open slather for clubs. That they don't have the determination / guts to expel clubs is another matter. David Smith proposed all clubs got 5 years guaranteed but then if not viable the franchise would go elsewhere. But the clubs have the numbers (and more so now on the "independent" board) and now Smith is gone. BTW - loved the "Dr Strangelove" reference.

Why should they update Brookvale? The NRL have pushed hard for three new stadiums. The government will want more games in the new expensive stadiums. Suburban games will be a thing of the past in coming years. Fans will have to get used to it and travel. Sink or swim time for the clubs. The NRL has made it clear, no more bailouts. They've just told the new owners of the Titans, it's their last chance to make a go of it on the Gold Coast or get ready to relocate. I suspect this is what they a doing in Sydney as well. The clubs will have to adapt to the new stadiums and build their support base to stay afloat and pay the higher rents. The strong will survive and the weak will have to relocate.

Crosscoder - I was directing conspiracy theories at Cathar, not you. Of late, the Swans have grabbed some star players, but the Storm did have Lazaurus, Kearney and Kimmorley etc, hardly ordinary players themselves and managed great recruiting, like the Swans to get Stewart Cronk and Inglis. Melbourne is very one sided towards AFL and any other sport is lucky to get fair coverage - Sydney is more a multi sport city and will give coverage to other sports, but it's been that way in VIC for ages, can't see it changing much. It would be interesting to see how many rusted on supporters the Storm and Swans have if, after consistent success, they have a few lean years.

Yeah ordinary players from other clubs, like Lockett,Hall,Tippet,Franklin,the latter the GWS mob was chasing.Nothing to see here . Media coverage Sydney compared to Melbourne chalk and cheese. Ladder postions since 2000 ,have a look. Additional funding ops for interstate players, such as the COLA If consistency doesn't assist crowds combined with performance, then crowds drop.That's all I'm saying.Of course coaches assist ,and make for better players, never suggested otherwise. Really deucer.If you have not over the years seen the difference between reportage in the Vic media on the Storm,compared with the converse for the Swans in Sydney,since their inception, then you need to get out a bit more. The TV ratings(when they get FTA) when the Storm play in that city,suggest there is interest. None of my points are conspiracy theories . And you proved the point bringing in South Africa from out of left field,where rugby league cannot get recognition by SASCOC. .The NRL does not have team in South Africa,in fact just a few rl teams,it does in Melbourne.That team is called the Storm and the AFL team in Sydney is the Swans.

They've just got to update Brooky. Simple as that.

Good grief! You don't think the Swans have had good coaches as well! You don't think the Swans have taken players who have failed at other clubs and turned them into better players! You don't think the Swans have built a team around a great spine! It all sounds like you think it's a conspiracy theory. I wasn't having a go at NRL or AFL, just stating that if performances suffer, so will crowds - it's just basic sense. Crosscoder - there is a difference between ' you see little about the NRL as no one cares" and you see little about the NRL because there is a conspiracy from the media to freeze out any news. I was in South Africa during the RLWC final, wanting the see England and Australia - it just wasn't on anywhere and wasn't in the news at all - more to do with no one cares rather than some conspiracy. I dare say it would be the same for the AFL GF. At least you have acknowledged the basic tenant - you have years of poor performances, crowds will drop.

Well I do know, at this very moment in time AF in NSW is as strong a it has ever been within over 100 years or living memory. It's traditional strongholds south of the Murrambidgee are the same or stronger and everything North of that has grown substantially.