In Part 1 of this article, I analysed possible expansion of the NRL to include a team from the following: Brisbane, Perth, the Central Coast, and either Wellington or Papua New Guinea.
However, what was not covered were the leagues below the elite level. What about any possible expansion for the Queensland Cup or New South Wales Cup?
The Queensland Cup, it could be argued, is the next premier rugby league competition in the sport. It is a very well organised competition, while the New South Wales Cup consolidates a lot of the fringe players striving to make their way into the numerous NSW-based NRL clubs.
The future aim of the game is for every NRL side to be aligned with two teams in either the NSW Cup or Q-Cup. So if the NRL is to expand to 18 or 20 teams, then ideally the state cups would consist of the same amount of sides.
Since my proposal for expansion in the NRL consisted of 20 teams, the following idea highlights a Q-Cup and NSW Cup that comprises 20 teams. I recognise that there are numerous problems with such a proposal. There would be finance and resource concerns without mentioning player talent availability, however, with smart management and planning, anything is achievable.
So how do the state-based competitions expand to the possible number of teams required without being detrimental to the overall wellbeing of the sport?
The answer for this is the link between the state and regional level. By this, I mean every country region should be linked to a state-based team.
For example, any player in the Gold Coast Rugby League or the Northern Rivers competition in country NSW could potentially secure themselves a position with either the Burleigh Bears or the Tweed Heads Seagulls.
This link provides a clear pathway for players and develops stronger ties between clubs and the code. Obviously, the devil is in the detail, but again if appropriately managed could work.
So what teams would be added to each competition to bring them up to the 18/20 team mark?
Firstly, I’ll start with the Queensland Cup. I would like to see the return of some proud clubs to the highest level of Queensland rugby league.
Bring back the Toowoomba Clydesdales. I know finances were an issue.
There may have been political issues within the Toowoomba Rugby League that hindered its progress before. Despite this, the region is crying out for a higher level of representation in rugby league.
I indicated in Part 1 that the Brothers Leprechauns had launched a bid for the NRL. However, I feel that a Q-Cup entry would be more appropriate. They could add some financial clout to the league.
Another team could be the Western Suburbs Panthers. I know that they also suffered from financial issues. The same could be said for Valleys. Despite this, it would be good to see these clubs return to a higher level.
With the addition of these four teams, the competition would be increased to 18. For the 20-team feeder system to operate, two more teams would be required. If the Papua New Guinean bid was to be successful as the 20th team in a future NRL, then I would like to see two new PNG teams included in the Q-Cup.
(Image: NRL)
If the Hunters were not successful for their NRL bid, then another team from Papua New Guinea could help develop depth for their national team. Either option leaves the Q-Cup with 19 teams.
To bring the league up to 20 teams, a team from the Wide – Bay Burnett region based out of Bundaberg may be an option. I know the game had tried before and failed, but hopefully, with more money coming into the sport in the future, a workable solution could be achieved.
Now for the NSW Cup. There are two schools of thought for this competition. One is that it is too Sydney-centric and the other is that the country regions are not financially secure enough to compete at this level.
The key ingredient to having country teams promoted into the NSW Cup lies with the NRL clubs. Would they partner with a country affiliate? If so, the following places could host a state team: Tamworth, Coffs Harbour, Port Macquarie, Bathurst, Dubbo and Wagga Wagga.
I hear what you are saying, these towns don’t have the population, and they don’t have the finances. That is true… at the moment. However, these areas do love rugby league, and having teams in regional areas have worked for the Q-Cup.
The other option would be to promote teams from the Ron Massey Cup and the Sydney Shield who do not currently compete in the NSW Cup.
To highlight how some of the links could work, the Western Suburbs Magpies would be the Wests Tigers affiliate, and if ever the Balmain Tigers return they could be the club’s second – if they decided not to choose a team from the Q-Cup.
(Image: Joe Frost)
I know that a group from Glebe are striving to have the Dirty Reds return to the game in an independent form and at present, they are a feeder to the Newtown Jets. Maybe they could form a partnership with a Sydney club and operate on a stand-alone basis.
There has been a discussion of Fiji and Wellington New Zealand entering a team into the NSW Cup. This plan could work in a similar mode to how the Papua New Guinea Hunters operate in the Q-Cup. The move would undoubtedly enhance the reach of the NSW Cup.
I get it; these clubs don’t have the financial clout to compete at this level. I stress that for this plan to work then the game needs to plan and distribute its funds equitably, appropriately and strategically, and supply the resources not just for the elite NRL, but for levels below. If undertaken, then the plan is achievable without disrupting country rugby league or the state competitions.
Ultimately, the game should desire that both the Q-Cup and NSW Cup become self-sustainable competitions just as is the case is in the NRL.
Are 20 teams too many for the NRL? Most likely, yes. At present, the same argument could be made for 18 teams. Is this plan fantasy? Absolutely it is, at the moment anyway. Though with careful planning, proper management and the right funding arrangements anything is possible.
As mentioned earlier, at some point in the future, every NRL team will have two feeder teams operating for them. Most likely one will be based in the Q-Cup and the other in the NSW Cup. So, if that’s the case, there is no point expanding at the NRL level if there are no plans to expand the leagues below it.
For those who live and breathe New South Wales Rugby League and Queensland Rugby League, what plan would you implement if there was to be an expansion of the NSW Cup or Q-Cup?
bjt
Guest
Exactly. NSW put a stop to it to strengthen NSW Cup as the QLD Cup is recognised as the stronger comp. Probably something to do with Origin :) The QLD Cup took a while to find its feet, but it is an excellent example of re-building a competition for the better after the death of Brisbane Comp (Randy, that's something you can actually blame on the Broncos). They turned it into a true comp to represent the state and not a city. They’re not scared of expansion, e.g PNG (an excellent example of progressing rugby league - something the NRL is yet to do), Townsville. Nor losing a few clubs, eg. Toowoomba. This is long overdue for the Sydney comp AKA the NRL. Teams like the Tigers, Magpies, Sharks should be playing in the NSW Cup, while 4 (at the most 5 teams) represent Sydney. This is what rugby league really needs. That and some actual forward thinking and some guts from the people who supposedly run the game.
Paul C
Guest
Brissie Boy, The Toowoomba RL are working on entering the Q Cup. Please read my comments 6 above yours.
Brissie Boy
Guest
It's an absolute disgrace that the region which has been a fertile breeding ground for many of Queensland's greatest players isn't represented at a state level. Would be great to see the Clydesdales back in the QCup but it needs to be as a side which is truly representative of Toowoomba and the Downs rather than just a virtual Broncos reserves side with blow-ins from Brisbane.
hooked13
Roar Rookie
The Suns might be failing, but GWS are far from failing in the AFL.
RandyM
Guest
except the titans and warriors are not failing miserably, no more miserably than GWS, Suns, and a whole bunch of A league teams.
BA Sports
Guest
Mark; I don't mean to offend I understand we are not writing academic papers or detailed business cases on a forum such as this - it is designed for opinion pieces which is what yours is.. Expansion as a topic is my trigger unfortunately (and i usually don't read the "expansion" articles, but there is little else online at the moment). To me, and I realise it is just to me, expansion in the NRL is so inconceivable in the current environment and I just don't understand why people spend so much time mulling over their own personal plans which seem so short sighted and fail to factor in the many reasons why expansion isn't on the table and won't (or at least shouldn't) be on the table any time soon. All for discussion around rellocation options in the NRL and improving the pathways (without over complicating it). I think they are things that could (or should) happen. Now if you had written a piece suggesting promotion/relegation- then I really would have gone off ... :)
Big Daddy
Guest
If you look at NSWRL(intrust) 6 of those clubs really have no geographic location to the clubs they feed. Wyong feed easts,north sydney/south's,newtown/cronulla,Blacktown/manly,mounties/cronulla and illawarra/st George,and then you have Auckland so that leaves Panthers,Canterbury, Newcastle, wenty and wests. So the Sydney strength is not as great as you think. 5 of those clubs have their own licenced clubs -I.e wyong,Mounties,wenty,norths and Blacktown. So it is a real nightmare. Obvious need to add a couple of clubs but it is not an NRL problem but a NSWRL problem who don't really seem to do a lot.
Rocky X
Roar Rookie
Expansion for the Nrl is just a pipe dream. The administration is afraid to do it, there is no money to do it plus potential interest in the game is being killed off due to other sports, soccer, afl and mma. Twenty years ago when the Nrl was born as a result of the Super league war the game was at its peak. No to little competition from the AFL, no Aleague and UFC was still becoming mainstream. UNless the nrl plans to bring in more international teams from PNG and Fiji the game will not expand. Domestic expansion is near impossible. More of than happy to be wrong but with the Gold coast and Warriors failing miserably at this point, more teams ain’t going to work
Oingo Boingo
Guest
G'day Mark My frustration lies with the NRL , you unfortunately copped a bit of the brunt of it .
Paul C
Guest
Barry some good points in your article. May I say that out of the four teams that you have suggested should re-enter the Q Cup, only Toowoomba Clydesdales who are affiliated with the Titans are really viable. Toowoomba RL have a plan to re-enter the Q Cup in the future. Brothers, Valleys & Wests will never rise from the Ashes I am sure. All three have lower level teams in the Brisbane competition. The three teams being inner city teams suffered most when the Broncos & Gold coast entered the NSW competition in 1988. Brothers won the Brisbane comp. in 1987 & 12 out of their Premiership team signed with NSW Clubs ( 1 with the Broncos & the remainder with North Sydney & St. George). The Brisbane competition could have folded only for great administration from the QRL who bought about the Q Cup. The Q Cup is viable only because Qld is de-centralised with large towns right up the coast to Cairns. I doubt that NSW Cup could go too far from the (NSW) Newcastle/Sydney/Woolongong Triangle??
Paul C
Guest
Randy, the NSWRL put a stop to dual registration not the Broncos!! Manly had a team in the QCup & they were forced back to Sydney.
Mark Campbell
Roar Guru
Thank you, BA Sports and Oingo Boingo for your opinions. I like the passion you both obviously display for the game. Thanks Nat for the support. I guess the title of my articles did not indicate the hypothetical nature of the content. A point I think was much more evident in Part 2 compared to Part 1. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your viewpoint, I am an optimist. So feel that the game should always be heading for the best case scenario. I know my idea relies on a range of matters to occur before it could work, I did acknowledge this when I stated the following: “I stress that for this plan to work then the game needs to plan and distribute its funds equitably, appropriately and strategically, and supply the resources not just for the elite NRL, but for levels below.” Personally, I am not sure this is happening at the moment. I believe that the funds are too top heavy. Not enough is being supplied to grassroots or clubs across the country. However, as you stated BA Sports, none of us knows the actual financials of the game. This leads to my responses. BA Sports and Oingo Boingo, I would have to disagree with the following points that you made respectfully: “but before you publicise an idea, you have to have the financials in place because that is fundamental to any plan.” Oingo Boingo “expansion has to be thought out thoroughly and your previous article proved you hadn’t done that.” Since this is an online forum I feel I can publicise an idea without having the full financials. Furthermore, since it is a limited article set for a general audience the ideas presented would not have all the particulars needed for a full plan to take place. If I was working for the NRL, in industry or writing an academic paper for university or in the professional world I most certainly would agree with you both. I would never publish anything if I did not have the financial elements covered or the in-depth details required for the plan to work. However, this website allows us as rugby league fans to canvass ideas and these ideas need to be condensed for the reading public. I hope that clarifies my thinking somewhat. Once again, thank you for your feedback. In terms of lying in bed hoping for a rugby league Utopia – the game in the future will have no self-interest, be the number 1 sport in Australia with all levels of the sport getting the attention and funding they rightfully deserve. I hope for the best.
Oingo Boingo
Guest
It's my opinion that it's pointless discussing the expansion of a game that is contracting. League is dying a death from a thousand cuts . Anyway, I have to go look at carriages , even though I don't own a horse.
Justin Kearney
Guest
Great article Mark. In both articles you promote the view that expansion is the way forward. Interestingly the argument against that is that there aren’t enough players. At the same time we are hearing about the rapid growth of afl in the eastern states. What is driving this? Expansion. The desire to be number 1. League is growing well in Melbourne with stuff all effort from the ARL. It can grow elsewhere as well if the mighty mice who run the game had the guts and gumption to drive the game forward. To do that we need new markets and new player pools. Hiding in bunkers in Sydney and Brisbane will only see the death of the game. Rant over.
Sammy
Guest
The NSWRL and QRL may appear to have the same objectives, but their constituents have very different objectives. The Queensland-based NRL Clubs are not members of the QRL. But the NSW-based NRL Clubs (except the JVs) are ALL members of the NSWRL along with the following non-NRL clubs: * Balmain Tigers * Illawara Steelers * Mounties * Newtown Jets * North Sydney Bears * St George Dragons * Wentworthville Magpies * Western Suburbs Magpies * Windsor Wolves
BA Sports
Guest
I don't disagree with anything you have said fundamentally. Because you are talking about consolidating and building. Reallocating existing funds and resources to try and maximise impact and growing your reach and potential to tap into new funding opportunities. The author 's solution to the problem is just get more expensive leagues going without addressing the financial element of those plans. As I say, if the intent of the piece is to say 'when i go to bed this is what my perfect rugby league nation looks like', then fine. But as a conversation starter for what the NRL and affiliated leagues should be doing as a next step - it is so far wide of the mark and doesn't consider a tonne of critical factors. Sorry Mark, just my opinion, but it is what it is.
Big Daddy
Guest
I can see your point but the local comp player's need some incentive to play a taste higher level. If we want Fiji to play in NSWRL comp there has to be some sort of incentive. Remember they would probably have to pay for their own travel and accommodation when they play here. The NRL don't mind pumping money into first grade club's to prop them up. Aren't they supposed to be putting money into grass roots football. This article suggests expansion at this level so a lot of people have suggested it's all about money and the bottom line it is.
Nat
Roar Guru
What you just said is exactly the right way of thinking. The author has thrown up a few ideas, not a plan but a starting suggestion. If there is an ideal but fluid model that includes grass roots and regional development and exposure that points toward NSW and Qld Cup then ultimately NRL that's a good thing. It's only 'pie in the sky' if nothing happens after it. So what is needed? Someone at the NRL to work on the prospect - that's the easy part, as you point out, the hard part is funding outside of TV revenue. If the $Billion is allocated toward NRL and absolute grassroost, schools, kids training clinics and junior rep carnivals (where talent can be identified). So we have regional CRL, QRL, RM Cup, NSW & Qld Cup (I know there's more) to find funding for. Some regional football clubs have leagues clubs for support. NRL affiliated clubs do/will receive some support from their respective clubs. Regional footy clubs can be run quite efficiently and with community support via sponsorship, grants, F&B and gate takings and volunteers all helps the cause. Nothing new here, this is how clubs survive today but some don't. The person in charge of expansion needs to identify strong, growth areas and support them - not prop them up. A type of 'if you can reach $X community support, we will tip in $Y'. A side note. A company I used to work for were a sponsor of the Bathurst Panthers.(unsure today) A, for community support B, it was relatively cheap to do so if they wanted a bit more we would have. There is no harm in asking. I said yesterday that I don't necessarily agree with more NRL clubs just strong ones. If that is both - fantastic. What does CQ, SA, WA or PNG have that will support inclusion and sustainability both from a financial and talent resource POV? Eg, the Storm have the Falcons ( and Easts) as their feeder team because A, talent base (although not all Falcons are Qld juniors) but moreso the standard of competition in the Q Cup preparing them for NRL an standard step up. They are not all ready or able but the cream rises and a Brodie Croft/Jerome Hughes/Riley Jacks steps up for Cronk/Slater. With all the new clubs in Victoria, with proper GR development when can we expect the Storm to relocate and source players from a feeder team in the Vic comp based on all the elements above. Apply the same model to all the new prospects. Therefore, developing the talent base from further afield than just the existing Qld/NSW juniors essentially making the pie bigger. Yes, they are AFL strong holds just as Qld and NSW are League yet we have 4 AFL clubs north of the Vic border and only 1 NRL outside our borders. Growth there is absolutely possible and immediate premierships are not important - Cronulla took 50yrs - developing the new market is the priority. Again, like Mark's article, this is far from the solution but hoping to get people thinking about the steps toward the ultimate goal. Not for implementation tomorrow but to be built upon. There is opportunity and money out there but we are so insular that any suggestion that is not hole proof doesn't deserve oxygen.
Brainstrust
Guest
Thats crazy, if they were to put the 400k into funding a competition in Fiji that money would go a long way. Same goes for PNG put all the money into a competition in PNG it will go very far in PNG. International airfares are very costly whereas 10k a year in Fiji would attract the top Fijian rugby players to switch over, even their rugby sevens squads the only money earners in Fiji get 20k a year, so easy to buy them off as well. A lot of the so called expanionism is about taking money off governments rather than doing anything. If you look at the rugby league world cup did PNG gain any benefit, its not like they had the equivalent of the Barmy Army going there to earn them money, each world cup match was auctioned off to the highest bidder. The only big travelling contingents were from the Pacific island communities from Australia and New Zealand. The nations where rugby league has big interest in seems to be the nations where they don;t want to invest in.
Fix the scrums
Guest
Sorry, I know it's hard to accept the truth. But the competition in its current state needs strengthening 1st before any expansion dreams can occur. It's good to have a vision forward into the future but there are real issues that need to be addressed now, particularly in Sydney. It all comes down to money and support. Some of the current clubs are lacking in both. This is happening in the state leagues and the NRL. There are many positives in the game but let's see how the management go in improving the bottom line and go from there.