"There is a clear lack of balls": Red and Black Bloc makes the kind of statement which only hurts football

Pretty hard to disagree here. The RBB are great but there are a few that think that they are bigger then the club.

Personally I have no issues with the RBB ripping flares, except for that they are illegal and in a nanny state like Australia Im not sure why people bother with them. My issue with the RBB is the hypocrisy of the whole organisation. Do they not realise they are supporting a "franchise" created by the monsters they are now protesting against. Oh, the irony.

@RandyM @ reuster 75 @ Kangajets It is interesting that no one has been able to challenge successfully my facts, logic, and/or conclusions. Soccer has a cultural problem with flares -many soccer fans are involved in facilitating/co-operating with their use at games. An inconvenient truth. Eddie Maguire has been a very strong supporter of Aboriginals playing in the AFL, and general Aboriginal advancement. Yet, in a joke on his radio show, he also made a"gorilla" comment about Goodes' beard -but he is certainly no racist!

@ Fadida "One episode in 3 years"? What about the premeditated brawling, flare throwing, insults, ambush at the Adelaide tramstop that occurred in Dec. 2017, between a large group of Adelaide and Sydney soccer fans. Sydney fans were waiting for Adelaide fans to arrive. A man in a green top, who fell to the ground in the brawling, was then given a big kick to the head -he could have suffered brain damage/been killed. This kick etc. was captured on film, and shown in the MSM. Why didn't the FFA launch an investigation? Why didn't the police lay charges? This behavior is pathetic for Australia -we don't want it to occur. (Google " Adelaide Sydney soccer brawl" for multiple reports/photos/video of the brawling) I am not saying the "AFL is a bastion of virtue". People are saying Simon Hill, and others, should be condemned for attempting to portray AFL fans as racist ;nearly 7,000,000 attendees pa, average one (or nil) racist incidents pa, about 10% of Players in the AFL are Aboriginal -others also are dark skinned! Hill, and many soccer fans, are throwing this "racism" smear at the AFL to detract from soccer's A League problems (but, at the community level, soccer has huge numbers of players, the game is a lot of fun, and it is thriving). @ Anon 100% correct. The AFL has a full round celebrating Aboriginal culture, pumps huge resources into developing and increasing the number of Aboriginal players etc. The AFL pays for NT (with many Aboriginal players) NEAFL and VFLW teams to fly around Australia/ hotel accomodation to compete etc. The AFL, and its fans, are more supportive of Aboriginals playing Australian Football - compared to other sports, with the support they provide Aboriginals to play their respective sports

I'm surprised you are amazed by someone who is able to accept responsibility for taking a small risk. And yes, many of our speed limits should be raised, they are being used to do nothing more than raise revenue. And as to innocent bystanders, if you choose to go and watch football in a cage with the ferals then you are fully aware of the risk.

Sadly true,Ben But for what it's worth there are some people who still believe that Deep Purple were so traumatised by their time in Geneva,that they never made any good music afterwards

Great post. Agree wholeheartedly. Also, AFL embraces Aboriginals and Aboriginal culture. When was the last time the A-League embraced or celebrated Aboriginal culture? They don't.

'Gorilla' - early 2000s former North Melbourne coach Denis Pagan had crossed over to Carlton - and recruited Mick Martyn who was finished at North after about 289 games or something like that. Pagan defended bringing him over to Carlton on the basis that you need a Gorilla to play on a Gorilla. That was terminology regarding big key position players. It's gone out of fashion - however - it may well be that the young (13 rd old) girl who used the term came from a household that was racist or it may be she came from a household were the big opposition players were referred to as apes or gorillas (especially when they were tackling a player on your team). I don't know of course - I don't know the girl or family. Just saying that it IS conceivable!! re Adam Goodes - it was 100% politically racist. Were he not made Australian of the Year whilst still playing - then no issue. Well - Hawthorn fans would still have booed him for a little while because of a particular incident but that wasn't racist. Personally I'm on the side advocating a change of date for Australia Day - and as it was people got angry seemingly about a mention of 'Invasion Day' in an interview he conducted just after he'd made his AotY speech. Anyway - that was clearly a political issue far, far more than a racist issue. The fact that it was a Political and Racial/Historical issue muddies it but you'd be selling it short to claim it as an example of racism in the AFL. The AFL didn't generate the topic and tried to defuse it but it (Australia Day and political reconciliation) is much bigger than the AFL, or the FFA or the NRL - and it's the lack of leadership from those in Govt that see a lack of real community debate but that's another topic. If you're going to bring up issues of racism - then instead refer to much more clear cut incidents like these: * 2014: A 70-year-old spectator is reported to police for making racists comments to Sydney Swans players Lance Franklin and Goodes during a match against Western Bulldogs at Etihad Stadium. * 2014: North Melbourne's Majak Daw is racially abused by a spectator during a match against Hawthorn in Launceston. The male spectator is evicted from the ground. * 2014: West Coast's Nic Naitanui is racially abused on Twitter. The offender pleads guilty to three counts of using a carriage service to menace, harass or cause offence and is banned from creating a Twitter account. * 2016: A banana is thrown at Adelaide's Eddie Betts by a female Port Adelaide supporter during a game. "A banana being thrown at an indigenous man is unambiguously racist," AFL chief Gillon McLachlan says. Port suspend the woman's club membership indefinitely

I think you have been reading too much Herald Sun propaganda and have totally overstated the problem. "Broad based antisocial behaviour"? One episode in about 3 years. Without poking the hornets nest there have been more incidents of racism in the AFL in that time (you are the one bringing AFL into it as a bastion of virtue - I would never say AFL is racist) Go back to reading cartoons

I made the mistake of buying a ticket in the sun for my first Jets game. I'm still sweating 4 years later!

Nicely summarised AR

Ha!

I remember that night in 2015, the flares were rocket flares and were going up 150m into the air. Youtube has videos of Perth fans loving it.

Nothing "nanny state" about my comment elvis. So you're "Tired of people using someone might get hurt to ban more and more stuff in the nanny state." What you reckon, let's get rid of speed limits as well. "If you want to hang out with idiots who light flares then if you get hurt then that’s your problem". Ever heard of innocent bystanders. Just amazing !

#Vennegor of Tarsus You make me think of the old Goodies episode with Rolf Harris in captivity "And don't the kids love him". Ah well. Check this from Dec 2013 in England - re surveying the attitudes of over 1600 EPL supporters. http://www.thefa.com/news/2013/dec/03/fa-backs-pyrotechnics-supporter-education You defense is as trite and banal as saying "But the kids love seeing people doing burn outs down suburban streets."

#Kangajets It's the acceptance that is the issue. The AFL has been working pretty hard for over 20+ years (largely inspired by the stand of Nicky Winmar and experiences of respected players over the years - not just indigenous either) to change attitudes around racism. There is NOT an acceptance of such behavior and no one arguing that because they do it somewhere overseas that it should be fine here. As I've said earlier - it's about changing attitudes and to empower people at all levels to speak up and say "That's not ok" and to report such anti-social behavior. That's why it's not actually an endemic problem in Australian Football but it is a recognised social issue that Australian Football has taken a stand on which means we are hearing about it when people report it. I'd hope that your son feels that if one of his mates was abusing someone that he'd feel confident enough to tell him not to and that the game would have his 'back' so to speak.

#Freddie "But while the issues in football are held up by the media to be a “Football” problem, the AFL issues are broken down (deliberately) into an individuals behaviour. They are NOT reported as an “AFL” problem." That's because you guys come on and defiantly argue in favor of flares. Or - at the very least - as per Mr Hill - attempt to deflect and compare flares to issues at other sports. No one defends the racists in the AFL. And the media HAS certainly had plenty of reviews of AFL and racism - just google it - "Racism still tarnishing AFL | NITV - SBS", "Infamous AFL racism incidents - The Age". However when you have over 6 and last year about 6.7 million attendees to matches in the top league during the season and people are talking about less reported racism events than you can count on one hand per season - then it's pretty tough to call it a major issue. A sensitive issue - yes. What IS clear in AFL circles is a growing awareness that it's NOT okay - too not just accept it whether as an attendee in the crowd, or a player at local level. The evolution of a culture of non-acceptance has empowered people to speak up. That IS NOT A PROBLEM with racism. That's a good thing. It's not an over night fix. No defense needed.

@Anon @ Freddie S. Hill and others falsely claim AFL fans are racist, that the AFL has a problem with racism etc, to obfuscate and divert attention from soccer's problems. This ugly racism smear is complete rubbish -about 10% of AFL players are Aboriginal, there are 3 Sudanese, and other players with dark skins: Goodes is the only dark skinned player who has received heavy and constant booing, for the reasons I enunciated above(which were not racist). Freddie, contrary to what Hill, you and others are saying, there is no double standard/hypocrisy in MSM reporting of flares etc - and the VERY isolated problem of a fan (once a year, or less, out of approx. 7,000,000 AFL attendees) making a racist comment. Unlike the AFL, soccer has an ongoing problem, over many decades, of anti-social behaviour (admittedly, from a very small percentage of fans, mainly young males). Soccer has a well established PATTERN OF BEHAVIOUR, on a MASS SCALE, with evidence of PREPLANNING and COLLUSION. The extremely rare incidents of racist comments at AFL matches are, generally, from solitary individuals -who are denounced by the immediate surrounding crowd, and dobbed in to security/police. The AFL has a policy, which it enforces, and is advertised at grounds and in the Football Record, to report immediately antisocial behaviour. Soccer is the opposite -soccer has an historical CULTURE of long established antisocial behaviour, which is accepted by a reasonable percentage of soccer supporters (looking at social media, throwing flares has plenty of support -no AFL fans publicly support racism in MSM, or social media)). This soccer culture includes, occasionally, wide spread brawling (inside and outside grounds by groups of fans-sometimes up to 100). Why don't the surrounding soccer fans, considering flares can injure and occasionally kill, .dob in the flare throwers etc: dob in those SURROUNDING the flare thrower, who are deliberately concealing his identity? This clearly shows there is collusion or planning or acceptance by soccer fans of flares. Why doesn't the FFA, after appropriate warnings to fans, dock points from clubs when flares are thrown? Why doesn't the FFA ban abusive, threatening and insulting chants and songs at soccer games? Of course, this behaviour is accepted, because it is part of soccer culture. And people wonder why it is only soccer games in Australia that are having, on a regular basis, this organised, broad based antisocial bahaviour. And then make charges of media overreaction/hypocrisy? Most Australians detest threatening, violent gang behaviour.

#Evan Askew "this moral panic at the use of flares reflects that as well as a fear of anything foreigh or non conformist, a legacy of the convict ancestry of middle AUstralia." Okay - if I accept that - then how do you explain that since 2013 the English FA, Premier and Football League have been campaigning against flares - perhaps it's just the Anglo's in general?? #gibberish defence.

#Kangajets There are certainly societal issues that none of the codes will be immune from. These include: Mental health, Illicit drugs, Racism, Alcohol, and the list goes on. Todd Greenberg speaking on SEN yesterday about how he and Gill at the AFL do 'swap tales, stories and challengs' on these issues and stressed that none of the issues are unique to their sport but are societal. The same will go for soccer and union and cricket There's the players and those around the clubs - and then there's the fan base most specifically when in attendance or out on social media. The way some issues gain an 'expression' is the challenge here. i.e. Flares as an outlet for irresponsible anti-social behaviour. The irony though is that even in this thread there are those who are implicitly supportive and or at least defensive of flares. These folk still don't get it. And therein lies the heart of the problem. Because that sustains a single sport specific culture of at least tacit acceptance. The media I suspect DOES 'get it'. However the culture of acceptance in soccer has not eradicated the letting off of flares within confined crowded spaces at sports stadiums (and the damage that can go with that let alone the danger to people). The media will continue to ride this until the soccer authorities can stamp it out. Via this process it is made clear that this behaviour is NOT acceptable. I just sense that not enough soccer fans have bought in to this message - I don't have to be a mind reader, just a post reader, as below from #Midfielder, #Elvis and #Evan Askew. The 'nanny state' defense is childish. It's not as if this is an attack on kids running in the school ground (THAT is nanny state rubbish).