Promotion and relegation in the A-League

From the existing A-League, Perth Glory & Newcastle, add South Melbourne, Adelaide City, Brisbane Strikers, Wolves, from the Liverpool bid I think Sydney United, Marconi & possible White Eagles in this bid. All up that’s maybe 9 former NSL clubs. OK it’s not perfect and needs to have a time limit for both expansion & more teams added from existing NPL sides. BUT BUT we have 10 teams maybe 9 if we discount the Nix. This could create what we want... a chance to create two 12 team divisions with enough capital to last to the next media deal, add P & R within say 4 to 6 years from now. Also add when new teams from the NPL can be introduced. The first 4 promoted teams in time could go to Div 1 with 4 clubs promoted from existing NPL clubs. IMO worth some considerable investigation we could have two divisions with two years all with capital, add another say 4 years to the next media deal and we P & R.

I'd argue that Div 2 teams could absolutely attract VISA players. Even SE Asian leagues in countries with lower living standards and worse wages on offer can, so I see no reason why not. The second tier is an exciting prospect but I don't see anything that radical happening in the next 20 years unless the A-League becomes independent from the FFA.

I'd say the only way this is possible is if the salary cap was removed and the league was opened up to investment

I like the idea of 2 x 16 team professional leagues eventually. However, it will take time. Expansion to 12 teams kooks like it is likely. The trick then is to have the second division at the same time. The NPL clubs want to source that from their ranks but I cannot see that happening when so many of the HAL bidders will be unsuccessful. Let's assume that the 12-14 teams that are unsuccessful in the current expansion form the basis of a second division That still does raise the level of the NPL teams - if anything it will detract from them as the new 2nd division teams plunder the state NPLs for players. I would like to see a third tier - semi-professional under the two divisions. This tier would comprise 20 clubs divided into a Northern and Southern conference. This elite semi-pro tier should attract the best semi-pro players in the country and concentrate them in a smaller number of clubs making for a tier that is a stepping stone between the state NPL level and the professional leagues. The Northern conference could start with teams such as Apia Leichhardt, Blacktown City, Brisbane Strikers, Cairns, maybe Darwin, Manly United, Sutherland Sharks, Sydney Olympic, Sydney United & Townsville The Southern conference could start with teams such as Adelaide City, Adelaide Metrostars, Bentleigh Greens, Geelong, Green Gully, Heidelberg United, Hume City, Joondalup, Launceston, Melbourne Knights. P & R between all levels including back to the State NPLs. The only proviso on promotion to the top two divisions is a commitment to transition to fully professional in a set period if you remain at that level.

Mark I don't want P & R rushed and introduced too soon .. equally I don't want a system set in place like the MLS where is near impossible to introduce.

Mark FFA has many who analyse everything they do.... but often never look at other aspects of our game. Above in a post I showed how Footballs annual revenue is at least 324 million. Many concrete on FFA but their is another 220 million in revenue at lower levels that also needs lots of business analysis ... me thinks there is possibly lots could be done and the money used wiser.

Agree and I hope we don't finish up with the MLS model

Great article Mid. I'd also like to see 2 fully professional divisions of 16 teams each with pro/rel between them. I reckon it'd be good to see 4 go up/down each season. For me, the key thing is to have the domestic football season run for at least 40 weeks of the year (30-34 rounds, but with international breaks, and each division having some clean air when the other division is not playing a round ), so we have a constant revenue stream for clubs most of the year, and a short off season which means less chance for fans to wander off and disengage. The ONLY criteria I would have for a 2 division structure is that all 32 teams MUST be fully professional. That is, every single player in every squad must be paid at least the minimum Australian wage and NOT have to have an outside source of income. That is the only way we are going to get players training and playing full time and thus improving the overall standard of quality of our players and our teams. We could achieve this, if the NPL clubs put the good of the game before the ego's of their board members.

If you look at sport in the USA across the board all the major sports are run along similar lines with a franchise type of set up. Whilst there is plenty of history there are also instances of owners just packing up and moving towns/cities. The NFL has plenty of examples...Raiders/Rams/Cardinals/Oilers. It must be part of the licensing that allows it. If it were the same here I daresay one of the interested expansion groups would have purchased The Phoenix and just moved them lock stock and barrel. However, I digress, the point being that in their sports they do not relegate and promote, but there are enough teams to make it interesting. A season is judged as successful by whether the team wins a conference or makes the play offs and then how far they progress and a season is a failure if they don’t at least make the play offs. It doesn’t matter by how much,although most codes have a draft and the worse you do the better the picks available in the draft. Our biggest issue is population and inability to scale up!

I'd have to say we are closer to the MLS model than anything else. if it costs for a licence to play there needs to be some security and relegation is not a palpable subject. In the EPL they dish out millions in TV revenue and that is based on how many times the team is shown etc...but even when they do get relegated, there is a parachute payment to help pay for players on higher wages etc and it should give the team a better chance of climbing back up again. Can't see anything like that happening down this way anytime soon.

no, great post as usual. thanks mid. i you dont like football, go play on the rugby tabs.

Winter football for the A league would be a disaster imo

I also think you can have a big third division - 16, 32 or 64 teams - if that division had a cup structure rather than a league structure. That is only 4, 5 or 6 rounds depending on how many teams. Plus half the teams would get knocked out each round. Of course, it wouldn't be professional at this level, but it would give pathways to new teams. I am just suggesting something different. Personally, the idea of a sixteen team second flight doesn't seem that interesting to me. Protracted and drawn-out seasons (30 rounds), vast differences between the top teams and bottom teams (1st are going to be so much better than 16th), not much at stake each round (three points is more important in a 10 round competition than in a 30 round competition).

Something which we have failed to mention is the time of year these leagues would play. Would a division 2 move also play in Summer to coincide with the A League, or would this be a good time to rejig our schedule to play outside of Summer to link with the rest of the football community?

I think the second division should start small - say 6 teams playing 10 rounds during the peak of the summer holiday period (Nov-Jan). This would give the most viable clubs an extra ten games per year (in addition to also competing in the NPL during winter) to move towards professionalism. The A-league would already be well underway, so it would add interest halfway through the season, and bring in new markets that are not represented. The B-League could look something like this: Canberra Gold Coast United South Melbourne Sutherland Shire Tasmania Wollongong Wolves

MQ I think for the foreseeable future two divisions with P & R is what we could reasonably sustain.

could you explain this a bit more?

Just on the MLS, this is a mega thread on a USA Football forum about P & R. http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-all-encompassing-pro-rel-thread-on-soccer-in-the-usa.2029961/page-620#post-36641281 Many of the issues they face are the same as us and my hope is we don't create an MLS model in Australia.

Could not agree more regarding lets not rush and in doing so stuff it up.

But the point remains that you have P&R between the 2nd and 3rd tiers. Yes, you are right that we could make the NPL the equivalent of the Segunda B, effectively the 3rd tier with P&R to the yet to be established national 2nd tier.