FFA must go back to the future

"If closer to the date they were due to commence in the a-league if it turned out the community hadn’t got behind the team in sufficient numbers then no problem you just move to the next name on the list." Well, not quite... When is the deadline for having enough community support? Lets say for arguments sake FFA checks the status 6mths out from being admitted and finds it's not what was predicted - is that too late? too early? Meanwhile, does "the next name on the list" have enough time to get up & running to emulate the numbers the 1st team was spouting (or even the numbers the next team was spouting originally)? Your argument seems a little too simplistic to me...

The fact that the same points have been talked about, debated and thrashed out since the inception of the A-League speaks volumes. Nothing has changed, and countless opportunities have been squandered. The problem lies in the leadership, or lack thereof. The sooner FIFA steps in the better.

That southern expansion bid does not include wollongong area any more football South coast have now thrown their support to wollongong wolves as of last month so southern only inlcudes st George and Sutherland which is Sydney fc territory. the south coast is the area the wolongong wolves represents. Expansion is needed ten teams is too stale need expansion so the league becomes more inclusive .so many football fans feel alienated around the country because they have no team to support unless you live in a capital city with the exception of Newcastle and gosford you don't have a team to support.new markets and history and participation numbers have to be taken into account ..the NSL was more inclusive to more Australians and soccer fans than the A league is .

Is that meant to be an argument for or against the inclusion of Hellas? Those numbers from the last season of what was by then a dead duck, look pretty good for Hellas.

People conveniently forget about what the NSL was like. It was semi pro for starters, the teams were not full time. What will this 'Championship' be? Where will they get the money to fund it? Delusional. Bottom line is, not too many new Greeks are migrating to Australia. So how the hell will they build a fanbase?

Waz- Many years ago I visited the Marconi club and spent some time before and after the game in their magnificent social club building. If they have continued to prosper in a similar manner I don't doubt for a minute they will have generated the figures you have supplied, but the point I was making is that as a registered company they will have to hold general meetings every year and as you well know the personnel in these ruling bodies can change and with personnel change so too can policy change That in fact was what happened at the Hakoah Club In Bondi Brisbane Roar are a club too but what would happen tomorrow if the Bakri Group said ---No more. Get my point?. Cheers jb.

Your point about no guarantees that any of the potential bidders will be able to attract min 10,000 crowd figure each week is well made and speaks to the mess that's been made around expansion. You mentioned the MLS and what they've done well in terms of expansion is to stagger the introduction of new teams over time. They have a roadmap for expansion and grant licenses well in advance of the date they plan to admit new teams. This allows the successful winners of the new licenses time to engage their communities and build a supporter base that is ready to go once their first season in the MLS starts. I believe that within the list of clubs wanting to join the a-league there is potential to draw good crowds but I would have liked to see them given time to build their supporter base before starting in the a-league. For example FFA could've given Woolongong and Canberra a license back in say 2016 with a view to commencing in the a-league in the 2018-19 season. You could've given a license to 2 other teams with a view to commencing in the 2019-20 season. So 2 years for the communities in Wollongong and Canberra to get out and demonstrate their support week in week out. If closer to the date they were due to commence in the a-league if it turned out the community hadn't got behind the team in sufficient numbers then no problem you just move to the next name on the list.

Gentlemen, What we are talking about is a second division. The Marconi’s and the Sth Melbourne’s start in the newly formed second division. I believe the top two up and the bottom two down system would work, and thus, the Marconi’s and Brisbane City/Olympic’s etc get their shot at A-League. I did attend the FFA Cup match in Canberra last Wed night and was a little concerned that every time Broadmeadow Magic scored, their fans were chanting Macedonia. It has to be made clear that we live in a multi-cultural society and that football is for all, not just for enclaves of nationality. Football is now Australian and if we have guys from Greek, Italian, Macedonia and Sudanese origin, all the better for football and we can proudly say they are playing for Australia. If we unite the clans into football Australia, that is when the Administrations of National Felonies and Misdemeanours League (NRL) and the National Mens Cross-Country Netball League (AFL) really start to sweat it. That’s when football starts to really become Johnny Warren’s dream. Les Murray would be dancing in the street if we achieve that.

10 shortlisted teams for A-League expansion: United for Macarthur (Campbelltown) South-Western Sydney FC Southern Expansion (Sutherland, St George and Wollongong) Wollongong Wolves Team 11 (Dandenong) Western Melbourne South Melbourne Western Pride (Ipswich) Canberra & Capital Region Brisbane City Just 3 of the above come from the NSL - Wolves, South Melbourne and Brisbane City. Take your pick from those.

jb. For all the reasons you mentioned I posted the link to their financial report and it’s easy to see where their meeting at comes from right. But a club is a club, this one has $45m in revenues and more profit that every team in the HAL.

... but mate, the great man said its a game for 'wogs sheilas and poofters '

Oldpsycho, it's nothing to do with racism. We have a modern competition that is run like a business. We want clubs that will be financially stable and provide young Australian players the chance to train and play as professional footballers and improve their game. The fear I have is that some of the old NSL clubs are really 'social clubs' who happen to field a football team. Look at job's example above about how Sydney City Hakoah withdrew mid season. Personally, i'd be happy for South Melbourne or Marconi or whoever to join the A league, but ONLY if they were doing so as financially viable businesses who pay their players and staff and 'grow the pie'.

Great post jb. It seems to be the case with a number of old NSL clubs that the football operations is separated from the social club. Any team wanting to come into the A League MUST have adequate financial backing, and that is the fear that many of us have with some of the old NSL clubs.

If we take the RACISM out of the arguments, there is NO argument, the NSL teams MUST be allowed to be part of the National scene!

Waz - Great care has to be taken when examining a "club". The Italian based community at Fairfield long ago (1957) established a very successful social club out at Fairfield. As NSW was the only state with licensed poker machines at the time, this club ,and others like it, at St George and Bondi (Hakoah) prospered and as a result of normal expansion started football teams for their members to either participate in, or follow. When the NSL began there were certain "shoe-ins" to the league ,Marconi ,St George and Hakoah being 3 of the front runners. These are the benefits of '"disposable " income from outside sources.. The inherent danger of course is that on an annual basis a social club has to have an AGM at which new (or old) members can throw their hat in the ring so that change is always in the air, and the resultant question ,which body controls the finances?. It was such a change in management that saw Hakoah/Eastern Suburbs.Sydney City withdrawn from the NSL in the mid 80's when a newly elected committee for the social club found they had outlaid over $300,000 the previous season for no apparent "return". The team was withdrawn from the league mid-season. So you see my friend ,one has to examine closely the management structure behind successful social clubs to see if they are in fact subsidising their "football branch",or in fact if their football branch is indeed "self supporting". I suspect the figures you have cited would be for the - "Club Marconi of Bossley Park ,Social, Recreation, and Sporting Centre Limited" the official registered name of the organisation. The club was started in 1957 had it's first amateur football team by 1961, entered the NSW state league in 1971 and of course joined the NSL in 1977,20 Years atter their original beginings,as a social club. The fact that due to shrewd management that social club also owned 22 acres around their clubhouse made the establishment of a football stadium next door almost too easy. Hence we have this "Marconi" are a very rich club (no doubt),but the question remains "What Marconi "club" controls the finance".??? Cheers jb.

I’m a bit “over” hearing all the arguments for and against Southern Expansion, Canberra, Tasmania, South Melbourne etc and why they should or should not be included in an expanded competition. Where a club has its ethnic roots is of little concern either. If a club is going to participate in an expanded competition it has to be competitive on the field and has to attract support too. I am not aware of any club that has 10.000 fans queuing up to get in to watch a game right now but accept there could be if the table was properly set out and the meal looks inciting! One day, there will be a realisation that playing numbers for the sport do not equte to the number of people interested in the A League and besides, the competition and clubs have to make it attractive in the first place. I look towards the MLS quite often as although there is a larger potential market, the competition and social make up have much in common with us in Australia. Atlanta have been a huge success in their two year history and games are interesting and exciting to attend; active support is welcomed and supported and there is a noisy vibrant atmosphere at many grounds....oh yes and fireworks/flares all safely controlled but not sanitised imo. Meanwhile here we apper to be heading in the opposite direction and fans vote with their feet. With the stadium rebuilds, ‘I fully expect both Sydney teams to attract lower crowds this season. A Sydney derby at the SCG might be a curiosity but is not a mouthwatering affair and WSW fans have suffered two seasons in the plastic/concrete Homebush wilderness and many have had enough. Bringing in fresh blood may provide a shot in the arm but it will need to be well managed. Do we have the right leaders to make the best decisions and lead the way..............love to think so and be a true believer!

Good info JB. As people get older they often refer to the, 'good ol' days', because we have the ability to filter out all that was wrong, and focus on ,and remember the good.

The 'old soccer' brigade must be getting on a bit considering. It's their kids and grand kids who are on the pitch these days. My grandkids play at Brisbane Olympic, a strong Greek club. The man in charge is Italian- played for Inter Milan (unsure). Another coach is a switched on very highly qualified Japanese. The technical director is English, with experience at EPL clubs. They play against Brisbane City with a strong Italian history. A cross section of all players, reads like the United Nations. Things change; not always for the better, but they do change. PS. The canteen at Olympic still serves great Greek food .

South Melbourne are a dinosaur fighting a battle from twenty years ago. Meanwhile other clubs have moved on and overtaken the likes of SM. Marconi has 44,000 members, $45 million in turnover and generates $3.4 million in profit, now that’s a club worth considering. https://www.clubmarconi.com.au/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2017/09/Club-Marconi-2017-AnnualReport.pdf

Juan - A simple trip back in time will take you to the year 2004, the last year of our first attempt at a nation wide football league. A quick sample taken of the crowds attending matches during that season show the following figures- Adelaide United - week 2 -12,125, week 13 -9,159,week 25 -12,212 Newcastle - week 2 - 4,673, week 13 - 3,513, week 25 -3,263 Brisbane St - week 2 - 2,625. week 13 - 2,336, week 25 -2,824 South Melb - week 4 - 7,254, week 13 - 4,125, week 25 - 5,250 Syd Utd -week 2 - 3,169, week 13 - 1,876, week 25 - 3039. Now in order to draw comparison with the HAL I have quoted last season's average figures for similar clubs in similar cities. Adelaide United 9,830 Newcastle 10,887 Brisbane Roar 9,206 Melb Victory 17,631 Sydney City 14,592. Now it is widely recognised that last season's HAL figures were considerably DOWN (Jets excepted) compared with recent years so these figures actually point out a contradiction to the argument you are putting in favour of historical "cure". Sorry jb