We have to talk about Quade

Jacko, I am sorry if my tone upset you. You did accuse a RA contracted player of being a ‘sook’. Then when I call you out on this, you declare me a ‘hypocrite’. I did not call you names. It is not just the fact that you are anonymous blogger Jacko. It is that you are slurring a person in the public arena, while hiding behind a pen name. You missed the logic leap there? Just now above you have dredged some ancient history to back up your assertion that Quade is in a ‘respect-deficit’ state. You see this is where we differ. And why I referred to the Eden Park groupthink in my initial response to you. Quade, apart from some silly (not thuggish) behaviour 7 years ago, and some silly high tackles more recently, has applied himself to his craft in a dignified and respectful manner, in my view, for at least 4 years. Further, his actions last super season were entirely professional and respectable. The actions of Brad Thorn and the Reds Admin were not. Thorn doesn’t own Qld rugby, or 25% (notionally) of the Wallaby talent pool. He dropped one of the Reds favourite sons, arguably its most favourite, without notice, at the worst possible time, with no real explanation. He did mumble something about ‘going another way’. So far that ‘other way’ looks like further down the ladder with headless chooks leading the attack. Brad Thorn is also being paid some solid quoin by RA. His non-communicative behaviour while playing chess with the northern sector of the OZ player pool places him in the ‘needs to earn back trust and respect’ box more than the Tokorua ten does. Thorn also needs to show value for the coaching money invested in him. And for those narrow-minded enough to refer to Thorn’s playing credentials as a respect-credit for his coaching prowess - yea, nuh. To be clear, I like Thorn, and wish him well. He deserves mountainous respect as a player. But despite some noble coaching principles , Thorn’s Reds stats are even worse that Quade’s,

"The Brumbies and Rebels were happy to take him…" For what $$$ - was it equal pay or was Cooper expected to move interstate on a pay cut because of an under-performing rookie coach with a chip on his shoulder.

Agreed as far as a number of poor selections are concerned. Agreed re Higgs and Fardy - although not sure how that related to my post... If Link had stayed on I think Cooper could have cut it as he was fast back then and they seemed to have a unique rapport; I honestly don't recall him doing well under Deans. Anyway, hope you are right and Cooper brings home the bacon next year...I really do.

"...but Cooper has had plenty of opportunities ...." I can't think of anybody else in Australian rugby who has been picked to play fly-half and then been encumbered with the very much out of form previous fly-half at center. When you nobble a guy you can't really call it an opportunity.

The trouble is, your comment about Cooper is demonstrably wrong. Cooper was also very good for a time under Deans, before Deans got cold feet and decided to put McCabe at 12. And we saw him go very well for Jones in the Barbarians. Even for Cheika he was demonstrably better than Cheika favourite Foley, its just that the playing field was obviously not level, and Foley didn't have to perform to keep his spot. Cheika never gave Cooper a chance. Yet he's happy to give plenty to Foley, Beale and Hanigan, and to let his captain seek glory on the wing. Same as he didn't give Higginbotham or Fardy a fair chance.

QC just seems to have lacked the temperament to take full advantage of his prodigious talents, except for when Link was coach. That's not a personal crack at him, just a fairly objective statement. Beale was never fully developed at 5/8 early in his post-school career, so its a bit late in the day to expect him to perform there now. Maybe he should have been left at fullback or on the wing. Foley doesn't have the kicking or playmaking game to succeed even at 2nd tier level. None of them are first rate defenders, although KB and QC demonstrated this ability at various times. Probably, in summary, while all had some great moments, and better coaching could have delivered more from them, now its case of rapidly diminishing returns. So, the issue raised in the previous post, is why isn't a younger player rising through the ranks? Its at least ten years since a player of real promise has emerged from the schoolboy ranks.

The bigger issue is we have 3-4 "10s" that are cracking 30 years of age, and no one under them to take over.

You first.

Thanks Max. I see your point of view. As you probably expect, others have other opinions. Somewhere in between lies the truth. I think he's good for the game. One of the best Rugby minds on the paddock imo. Unfortunately, its not compatible with most Aus coach's mindset. Which unfortunately isnt very smart in many parts esp in Qld :/ Lets see in Melbourne, it will be most interesting.

Wallabies win with Quade at 60.71 % and with Bernard Foley @ 50.8%http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/player/142117.html http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/85482.html Facts...who cares for facts...

Hamish was able to guide the Reds to the bottom of the pile this year. Wallabies should be selected from the best teams. Simmons would have made a positive difference today.

Quade does adventurous things when the team has a penalty advantage; Kurtley is like a C grade touch player.

Well Max we certainly do need to talk about Quade now!! Wasn't Kurtley terrific last night against the Boks! Superb cut out pass to Diyantyi at the 30 second mark. If you sent Quade onto the field with specific directions to stuff up everything he does, he would still look better than Cheika's number favoured 10's

How Australia could have used Cooper last night. All that position and possession, but absolutely clueless play. Then the so called Iceman comes on and panics and thrashes around transferring pressure. And somehow the answer for some is to go back to him. Wasn't he a starter in the dire performances earlier in the year? And Beale? If Cooper had thrown that intercept, there would have been an internet meltdown. But Burke suggests moving him to 13? Clueless, mindless play, we are getting dusted at the breakdown and our 7 is camped permanently outside the winger....Cooper is so superior as a playmaker to any either Beale, Foley or Toomua its not funny. Only disgruntled and vindictive Kiwis, and rusted on Tah fans fail to see the obvious.

Poor form in 2015 ? Only if you're in some kind of alternate universe where the 2015 spring tour never happened.

Agreed Ken, Max - no more articles from you please. You’re making a big deal about something which hasn’t been a big deal for a while now and as Ken made mention, the Cooper/Horan comment was either a poor attempt at humour or something a little deranged. Not everyone can be an astronaut and I think you may have a real talent with a broom in a chimney.

Freddie you...and Val below make many good points but as far as the BT should pay him out and it to be a personal vendetta...well it was Thorn who shopped him around...The Brumbies and Rebels were happy to take him....HE turned it down so please dont blame BT for that......BT should have made the decision earlier but no matter how you look at it he could not have made it too much earlier than a month or so anyway.....Also I just dont believe that all the coaches that either sacked him or didnt select him had personal vendetta's against him.....He must surely have to accept some blame when it happens so frequently.....Anyway I wish him all the best for next year and the Rebels are certainly looking strong but for me...the fact that he is lining up alongside a no 9 that shared a SR title in 2011 tells me they have nothing coming thru rather than these guys are still the best around...Why is QC even being considered? Because there is so few options at 10 in Aus at the moment on the rise and if a few good young guys were pushing for higher honours then QC would not even be a topic

Rhys' Cooper could have made a reasonable first five. but he came along not that long after the retirement of one Carlos Spencer who as we all know on his day could play the ''magical stuff'' that only he could play, and unfortunately for Cooper, he attempted to ape him, and as we all know now, he couldn't pull it off!

Fionn! I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see Haydn Parker at the Highlanders sooner rather than later!

Kristaylor! You couldn't have said it better, I tried to do something along these very same lines, ~ but your analogy sums up the current situation exactly! There IS no better First Five Eight in Australia at the moment and I'm sure the old saying rings true, He's the "best of an ordinary lot".