The list of Cox Plate winners reads like a ‘who’s who‘ of Australian racing.
The same can certainly not be said for the Victoria Derby. Its winners’ roll call, particularly in recent times, reads more like a ‘who’s that?’.
Efficient won the Melbourne Cup in 2007 after taking out the Derby the previous year, a feat that had, incidentally, not been achieved for many decades.
Elvstroem went on to have a stellar career after his Derby triumph in 2003, but I would argue that you have to go all the way back to Mahogany in 1993 to find a Derby victor worthy of the champion label. And what a horse he was – still one of my favourites.
The fact remains that the Derby really does seem to be losing its gloss. Researching it might be a worthwhile task, but from what I can recall, some, if not many recent winners have failed to win another event in their careers.
While you might respond that the Derby is a ‘stallion’s race’, such that the winners are often retired to stud shortly after Derby success, this has not always been so.
Others such as Polanski have met with misfortune, but my contention is that the vast majority of recent winners, and placegetters for that matter, have just been relatively ordinary conveyances who, more than anything else, have matured early and probably had the luck in running to feature in the finishes.
That the Derby is run early in the racing season partly explains the quality of the results we are seeing, a point underscored by the fact that the winners of the Australian Derby held at Randwick in the autumn do read as a stronger lot.
It really does seem though that the issue of horses being bread for speed and consequently, an early return on owners investments, lies at the heart of the problem, if indeed any problem exists.
Whatever one thinks about my comments here, most would agree that Saturday’s Derby looks a really weak race.
Thinkin’ Big deservedly heads the market, but he was bested by a filly two starts back, which is never great form this time of year.
The winner of the Moonee Valley Vase, which has always been a terrific guide, meanwhile, paid over $30, and would shock if he became a weight-for-age or Cups horse any time soon.
The Autumn Sun would have been a short-priced favourite had he started, notwithstanding possible doubts about his staying credentials. Absent Chris Waller’s star runner, it is, as I say, a disappointing final field.
peeeko
Roar Guru
"While you might respond that the Derby is a ‘stallion’s race’, such that the winners are often retired to stud shortly after Derby success, this has not always been so." this is not correct. basically we dont have stayers , yet alone early 3yo to run 2500 metres
peeeko
Roar Guru
spot on
michael steel
Guest
Great or very good horses have come out of the race but not necessarily the winners and that I feel is because it's 2500 and not 2000 as suggested. One near great who won this race was Stylish Century, who a week after running second in the Cox plate won the Derby by 5 lengths leading all the way. For the younger readers his career was a horror story, he won the Spring Champion Stakes before these races and campaigned in the Melbourne and Sydney Autumn and then the Brisbane winter as a 3 year old. Poor horse. Kingston Town and Shogun Lodge are the most notable second placings running behind horses which were quickly forgotten. In an era of great horses if Stylish Century wasn't trained by his owner he could have been anything.
Roarpete
Roar Pro
Thanks everyone for your comments. I don’t wish to knock Winx at all, but in the wake of a horse like her, it is easy to under estimate past champions. For those who did not see him, Mahogany was a remarkable and versatile horse. We were lucky enough up here in Brisbane to see him in action, which is becoming less and less of a likelihood. As for the Derby, I agree with those who say the 2,500 just doesn’t bring out the best in the early three-year-olds. What about the Preakness Stakes as a model?
pakistanstar
Guest
The VRC Derby has been a none event for a while now. The Ascot Vale Stakes (now known as the Coolmore Stud Stakes) over 1200m is attracting a better field in recent years so that should tell you all you need to know. And we wonder why the Melbourne Cup field is majority international horses (bred and/or trained). Maybe we should ask John Messara what he thinks of the Derby...
Kangas
Roar Rookie
The mahogany example is interesting too He became known as an outstanding fresh sprinter as he got older ,despite being a derby winner at 3 . He also collected a Cox Plate runners up to octagonal. A remarkable career .
Kangas
Roar Rookie
Did you watch the race where Msid of heaven beat thinking big . He was outstanding in that defeat on the heavy , and Maid of heaven is going to be a star of the autumn , every run in her preparation showed glimpses of real finishing quality . Maid of heaven would stitch up the oaks if she campaigned differently. Now I’m not knocking your comments about the derby in general, it’s too early in the season for 2500 , but the v r c are in Europe drooling mode , so they really don’t care abt the derby .
Kangas
Roar Rookie
See if the autumn sun races on after the Caulfield Guineas and wins the derby , that doesn’t nothing to increase his stud value, because Australia breeders don’t want stayers , they want speed speed and more speed . They way to change this is a generation thing . There needs to be a reason to breed stayers and a reason for owners to be patient enough to own a stayer who generally don’t race at 2 years old . Probably a regular series of late 3 year old staying races and a 4 and 5 year old series with good prize money. Bart Cummings always said the v r c derby should be over 2000 m as these babies aren’t ready for 2500 . Totally valid opinion. On Saturday race , it’s not that bad tbh Class horses like Aramayo and thinkin big are in it There are a couple of fiorente colts in the race too In the last 20 years a few horses did ok despite not winning the V r c derby Octagonal who was a star Tie the knot great Sydney group 1 horse Brew ( won a Mrlbourne cup ) Criterion I agree it’s not a classic like the English derby , that won’t change unless breeders and race clubs change their thinking .