Rugby in 2020 has been fascinating when viewed through the lens of the coach: embattled, or fledgling, or desperate, or experimental.
The movers
Defence guru Shaun Edwards’ system works, but only with rabid aggression and elite boxer-level cardio. Wales for the last decade embodied Edwards’ thinking: implacable, hard, prepared and tough.
The French players will improve under Edwards’ baleful eye, but will he watch Teddy Thomas play matador for long, no matter how lovely Teddy’s attack looks? Desire and lungs matter a lot.
When can France achieve the Gatland-Edwards mega-level of fitness so that they stop losing the second half? Edwards’ brand of coaching seems universal in its effect. But the French player is a strange one; if any team is an outlier, it will be Les Bleus, as they could just reject the pain.
As for his former partner in crime, Warren Gatland, he has the Chiefs scrapping to make every phase of the game miserable. The apogee of Gatlandism was in the last World Cup semi final. Shorn of five, six, seven or more of their best players, the Welsh still made the champion Boks grind until all grinding was done.
(Photo by Michael Bradley/Getty Images)
In Waikato, Gatland is mining again, in the land of his roots. The early returns are handsome. The entire Super Rugby coaching fraternity surely looks up to him, and currently curses him before and after matches.
The copycats
In South Africa, there is a parochialism few can imagine. That was the true feat of Rassie Erasmus, to meld the unions and expats, then find a unifying way and manner to play. But let’s be honest, he also turned the Boks into a team almost as fit as Wales, and used rugby physics to batter the batterers.
The result should be that all the South African provinces would copy the Jacques Nienaber defence and elevate the Erasmus philosophy of rampant honesty and accountability.
Yet, the two coastal teams seem the only ones to try: the ruthless 6-2, the nippy nine, the beep-test rush-umbrella, the smallish sprinter wing, the clinical counter-attack, the mastery of monster collisions, and the percentage play.
John Dobson and Sean Everitt (WP and Natal, respectively) are coaches’ coaches. They were brilliant in Currie Cup, but also at every junior and schools level, obsessed with teaching the Jake White way. They were not legends as players, Dobbo and Sean, but serious students of stats and sport psychology.
The Stormers and Sharks are playing the most like the 2019 Boks. The Bulls and the Lions simply cannot, with their stocks of cattle raided.
Think of picking a pack from this group now north: Franco Mostert, Lood de Jager, RG Snyman, Duane Vermeulen, Marcell Coetzee, the Du Preez brothers, Akker van der Merwe, Coenie Oosthuizen, Bismarck du Plessis, Francois Louw, and Vincent Koch. This is reality.
The return to basics
In Ireland, it looks like Andy Farrell has decided to go back to unapologetic power, and pick a captain as difficult as his son. They may notch a rare win at Twickers, because Eddie Jones has outstayed his sweet spot.
The chop-and-changer
Jones is tinkering for no use. Why move the best seven in eons in England to eight, and struggle to get over the gain line when the scrum is going backward? His halfbacks, as a corps, will soon lose all confidence, generally.
(Photo by Richard Heathcote/Getty Images)
It won’t settle Jones down that Erasmus is being floated as his (early) successor, even if that was just a trial balloon.
Wales’ new Kiwi mastermind, Wayne Pivac, has the offload mania. One too many and you’re back behind your poles.
Enough
In Australia, it’s judgement year for Brad Thorn and Dave Wessels. They’re good guys, but they need wins. That’s it. Affable, honest, hard-working they may be, but wooden spoons get coaches fired.
Fin de siecle
In Scotland, Gregor Townsend has lost the plot. The most talented rugby Scotsman has three beers on a night before non-training meetings, and missed the Powerpoint in the morning. Townsend has turned this into mutiny. If he loses to Franco Smith’s Italy, listen for the knives sharpening.
Oblonsky‘s Other Pun
Roar Guru
I’ve had plenty of good coaches in my time and plenty of poor ones. The poor ones often had very narrow views of what ‘good training’ was and often only managed to get the best out of a precious few players. The best coaches were more accepting of different personalities and created environments where more players flourished. So-called ‘poor trainers’ could be wonderful in these environments. I obviously don’t know what Timani was like in training, but he never came across as a selfish or entitled player on the field. Makes me wonder whether the coaches bear responsibility for not getting the best out of him. George Smith was another who had a reputation as a poor trainer when he was younger. But then you hear guys like Haskell gushing about what a great influence he was as a player in his later career. Either he did a complete 180, or he wasn’t such a poor trainer after all. Thorn is one that I am worried about in terms of the environment he has set up. We hear so much about how focused he is in environment, and many All Blacks fans sing his praises for what he’s doing at the Reds. Jacko is a particular fan of Thorn at the Reds. But the team doesn’t have a winning culture, doesn’t exemplify discipline on the field and it looks from the outside like an inflexible, unforgiving culture where it’s either Thorn’s way or the highway. Anyway, I think that’s enough garbled musings for one day…
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
I think Lopeti Timani had real potential which was cut short rather abruptly Fionn... Rumours he was not a good trainer??
Oblonsky‘s Other Pun
Roar Guru
The only limited period of success that Cheika enjoyed with the Wallabies after the World Cup was that period with Hooper and McMahon in excellent form in 2017. I think Lopeti Timani was playing with them too. Maybe he wasn't sufficiently appreciated at the time? Seemed to me like he was a good player who could have offered more.
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
One addition, with the benefit of a night's sleep Neil. I doubt you'll ever get the 'bully' and the flexibility to improvise during the game together in the same team... After all, the bully mentality knows only one way forward, not two or three. It's not part of the psyche. Maybe you've unwittingly hit on the root cause of England's inconsistencies!? :shocked:
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
I think both would be very strong candidates Fin - including for the Test 15 itself...
Oblonsky‘s Other Pun
Roar Guru
Nick, out of interest, how do you think Hooper and McMahon (from a couple of years ago) would compare against those current NH guys -would either or both have a shot at making a Lions 15 or 23 (if they were eligible)?
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
Jeez at that rate they'll have to raise the height of the net Fin!
Fin
Guest
Nick, Do you think Curry has as much talent as big Zion. Can you believe this guy is only 19 years old? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ccuKb8V8XE
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
Still a mystery to me I'm afraid. Enjoy your ribs! :thumbup:
Neil Back
Roar Rookie
Nic, I’ve disclosed exactly what I think. And I’ve even repeated it for you. More than once now. Until you accept that, and comment on what I’ve actually said and no more than, I’ve absolutely no interest in taking the conversation to somewhere you’d rather be. Now, it’s my Saturday evening, and my hosts baby back ribs trump you. See you in the morning, if you can still be bothered. Not sure I can.
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
All you need to do is show your hand Neil - who do you think are the best pair of flankers on the Test scene? Please, don't just fade away in front of such a simple question...! As far as the bully theory goes, yes England were in the ascendant against NZ and Ireland, but not against Wales and SA - so where does that leave the theory? Afloat or in tatters? I'm only trying to dig out what you really think - and surprised you don't appear to want to disclose it :happy:
Neil Back
Roar Rookie
Nic. Enough now. Reproducing my actual words only demonstrates my point and devalues yours. “I doubt there’s a quicker and harder tackling duo than Curry and Underhill” is nothing close to your interpretation “ to rank them ahead of guys like Tipuric, Navidi and Wainwright”. There’s no reference to ‘ahead’ or even all the required skill sets of a loose forward/jacker. You have to concede that at least. And I doubled down on nothing apart from referencing two recent matches involving Ireland and NZ where they were bullied (all over the park in fact) to argue England do have a pack that can bully. When it’s firing. Nothing more than that. You’re not man who easily concedes. You’ll be tempted to argue I’m not either. But on this occasion, you need to.
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
It's a good Q Fin, and a hard one to answer. I think it could be true to say that the old B/R would have been a better fit to beat SA in the final last year, particularly if England had decided to take SA on up front and run a lot off 9. The determination to make Tom Curry fit in at 8 may also derive from an unwillingness to absorb the lessons from that match, although I can't say that for sure... :happy:
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
But thank you. No one’s ever called me sensitive before. I will try to get in touch with that side more often. It's a much better look Neil, you should continue to cultivate your 'new inner man'! As for the rest, there is no disingenuity involved. Your original comment was, "Doubt there’s a quicker and harder tackling duo than Curry and Underhill." Then you doubled down by implying that the England duo were better than what Wales and NZ had to offer in the same area in your following post. Now you're backing down?? It would be a pleasure to know your real thoughts. My current Lions B/R (with everyone fit and well) would probably have Navidi, Faletau and Curry in it. Now show me yours :laughing:
Neil Back
Roar Rookie
Whoa there Nicholas, now you're right off the rails. I never ranked anyone ahead of those you mention. Look back at my actual words and don't substitute them with your own. Disingenuous squared my friend. And please don't stoop to the highhanded media and fan bashing school. You cannot honestly argue the premature promotion of players to some notion of world class is a particularly English thing, or even predominantly. It's an equally guilty pleasure of every nation I've encountered, and I'd honestly suggest anyone who argues otherwise does so with no empirical evidence, but a whole lot of agenda. But thank you. No one's ever called me sensitive before. I will try to get in touch with that side more often.
Fin
Guest
Nick, Do you think the England B/R from a few years ago with billy, Haskell, robshaw etc. was just as effective, particularly against bigger backrowers?
Fin
Guest
It happens here too Nick. Just this week The QLD papers listed Petaia, McDermott, Lucas, Tupou as some of the most talented players ever to play for Queensland. Forget Eales, Lynagh, Kefu, Horan, Gould, Brendan Moon, Tune, Lawton, Genia etc.
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
Nice balanced response - thx Fionn! :thumbup:
Nicholas Bishop
Expert
You're being too sensitive Neil. Both players are very promising, but to rank them ahead of guys like Tipuric, Navidi and Wainwright already is the truly disingenuous movement of thought. If you watched players like that regularly, (and others like Hamish Watson and Josh van der Flier) you might think differently... It's this lightning quick promotion of players to world-class that is one of the banes of English rugby and the media therein. They're good but they are not all that, yet. Keep your feet on the ground mate - Tigers supporters used to be better at that :stoked:
Oblonsky‘s Other Pun
Roar Guru
I don’t think it is hype per se. But I do think that England have been starved of a top class 7 for so long that the media has tended to exaggerate how good they are. The lads on the Eggchasers referred to Underhill and Curry as two of the best flankers in the world. Would most people really pick them over Ardie Savea and Sam Cane or Justin Tipuric and Josh Navidi? Personally, I’d be surprised if many people preferred the English duo. If the two back rows came up against each other I don’t think England would be clearly disadvantaged, but let me put it this way, I’d assume England would look try and get an advantage elsewhere around the park.