What is is that all football fans want and love?
We all want a premiership!
What do we want even more? Multiple premierships!
What do we also want? Quick turnarounds when our team loses a close grand final or starts slipping out of the premiership window.
No 40yo supporter who enjoys a club premiership wants to wait until they are using a walking frame before they experience their next one.
I have reviewed AFL/VFL history over the last 60 years to isolate clubs who have reached a level of success that no fair-minded supporter has any right to complain about.
My listing includes clubs that have won three or more premierships in any eight-year period. Footy fans feel almost cheated when their club has an amazing year or two and then falls away into insignificance in a very fast manner.
There are nine clubs in total. The first four were before my time so I am going to list them in chronological order. But I would love some feedback from my more senior colleagues as to their thoughts.
Richmond
Year Result Ladder Home and away (percentage)
1967 Premiers MP 145.9per cent
1969 Premiers 4th 124.6per cent
1973 Premiers 2nd 117.6per cent
1974 Premiers MP 129.3per cent
1972 Runner-Up 2nd 117.7per cent
Carlton
Year Result Ladder Home and away (percentage)
1968 Premiers 2ND 130.4per cent
1970 Premiers 2ND 112.3per cent
1972 Premiers MP 134.3per cent
1969 Runner-Up 4TH 124.6per cent
1973 Runner-Up 3RD 126.6per cent
Hawthorn
Year Result Ladder Home and away (percentage)
1971 Premiers MP 153.7per cent
1976 Premiers 2ND 114.2per cent
1978 Premiers MP 153.7per cent
1975 Runner-Up MP 137.3per cent
Carlton
Year Result Ladder Home and away (percentage)
1979 Premiers MP 139.6
1981 Premiers MP 130.3
1982 Premiers 3RD 127.5
The next five I have fully witnessed, so I am going to rank them in terms of greatness. My evaluation isn’t simply based on the number of premierships, it includes grand final appearances and how dominant these clubs were in their home and away seasons.
No 1. Hawthorn – The greatest period of dominance and quite frankly I do not believe it is ever likely to be matched. This is due to the fact that we now have an 18-team national competition with a draft and salary cap.
During this period there was another two standout teams so this result could have been even greater if it wasn’t for Essendon and Carlton. But they were unable to match Hawthorn for their long-term consistency.
Year Result Ladder Home and away (percentage)
1983 Premiers 2ND 128.7per cent
1986 Premiers MP 141.6per cent
1988 Premiers MP 142.3per cent
1989 Premiers MP 153.2per cent
1991 Premiers 2ND 135.9per cent
1984 Runner-Up 2ND 131.7per cent
1985 Runner-Up 3RD 130.8per cent
1987 Runner-Up 2ND 147.1per cent
No. 2 Geelong – Probably the unluckiest team not to have extended their dominance. The 2008 Geelong team is the best team I have seen not to go on and hold up the trophy in September.
(Mark Dadswell/Getty Images)
Gary Ablett Jr left at the end of 2010 to join the Gold Coast and lastly, they were competing against some very strong teams in these years. St Kilda, Collingwood, Fremantle and Hawthorn all had very strong line-ups. Along with Geelong, these other four teams contained the majority of the top end talent.
Year Result Ladder Home and away (percentage)
2007 Premiers MP 152.8
2009 Premiers 2ND 127.4
2011 Premiers 2ND 157.4
2008 Runner-Up MP 161.8
No. 3 Hawthorn – Very strong percentage home and away seasons year after year tells the story. In 2011 they were leading the preliminary final with 2 mins to go before suffering a cruel 3-point loss after a strong 18-win home and away season.
They finished top four in 2016 with their key forwards ageing. Buddy Franklin was playing out of his skin for the Sydney Swans kicking 81 goals for the season. I might suggest that the 2016 title would have remained at Waverley if Buddy had remained at Hawthorn.
Year Result Ladder Home and away (percentage)
2013 Premiers MP 135.7
2014 Premiers 2ND 140.8
2015 Premiers 3RD 158.4
2012 Runner-Up MP 154.6
Alastair Clarkson (Photo by Cameron Spencer/AFL Photos/via Getty Images)
No. 4 Brisbane – Many experts rate them as one of the greatest sides of all time and rightly so. They played an incredible brand of football. But with no minor premierships and no Home and away above 137per cent, I cannot place them any higher.
Year Result Ladder Home and away (percentage)
2001 Premiers 2ND 127.6
2002 Premiers 2ND 136.7
2003 Premiers 3RD 121.9
2004 Runner-Up 2ND 132.4
No. 5 Richmond – Probably the most interesting of all the listed teams. For Richmond fans it had been a long time between drinks. Many fans had turned to it. Their period of dominance is still in the making, so let’s see whether they can extend it?
No team in the last four seasons have been able to match them in the second half of the season or in September. Interestingly, their best home and away season was in 2018 winning the MP with 18 games at 136.1per cent before being soundly beaten by Collingwood in the preliminary final.
Not great home and away stats compared to the other great teams but they have been the best side over the last four years by a country mile.
Year Result Ladder Handamp;A
2017 Premiers 3RD 118.3
2019 Premiers 3RD 113.7
2020 Premiers 3RD 129.9
There were a some other very great teams during this period but as they could not grasp that third premiership, I could not include them. The teams that spring to mind were the Kangaroos 1996-1999 and Essendon 1983-1985. Adelaide won consecutive premierships in 1997-1998 but in my humble opinion, the previous two teams were just a little bit stronger.
Bell31
Roar Rookie
Yep - that Cats team were hardly scrubs... I wonder how many times a 20-2 team has played a 19-3 team in a GF and with those outlandish percentages as well. Still hard for me to look at Hawk without remembering his last quarter in 2011. I didn't see the people wanting AFL/VFL distinction, BUT I get it - I'm a traditionalist, so I like to see them 'all as one', but I know some want to define them as 2 separate competitions, which I don't have a huge issue with --- the Swans/Bears/Eagles were only in the VFL for a short time pre-AFL of course --- however, for me, I feel like we lose a rich tradition for the VFL clubs if we distinguish the eras.
Mr Right
Roar Rookie
The Brisbane 3peat also had the advantage of Essendon not turning up to play on the big day in Sept 2001. Essendon had been the best team all year, but it didn't count for much when the final siren sounded. I will never post an article on it because I will get rained on by a lot of angry fans, but IMO, those Essendon sides 1999-2002 were the biggest under-achievers & the Adelaide sides of 1997-1998 were the biggest over-achievers based on team playing strength. I don't think that Adelaide squad were in the top 3 sides in either year but they were both the best team in the finals. And congratulations to them.
Mr Right
Roar Rookie
No, I used the criteria of 3 premierships within 8 years. An additional premiership would still not have got them onto the Great List. I mentioned in my article the point, "Footy fans feel almost cheated when their club has an amazing year or two & then falls away into insignificance in a very fast manner". Port just scraped into the 8 in 2005 & finished 12th on the ladder in 2006. We both know that Port were in the premiership window for more than a year or two but that 2nd premiership eluded them. A frustration for both the club & it's fans.
Aaron Paul
Roar Rookie
as a port supporter, the lions period drives me nuts, if port had just won one more of the flags the same year they finished minor premiers they would make this list...
Mr Right
Roar Rookie
Yes that 2011 Collingwood team were very strong indeed although they didn’t have any excuses on GF day losing by 38 points & remember they just squeezed into the GF by a bee’s dick beating Hawthorn by 3 points that night in the PF. Geelong won 19 games in the H&A @ 157.4 so they didn’t exactly come from nowhere. They played that season without Gary Ablett Jnr & I reckon that record winning margin in 2007 over Port of 119 points will never be broken. Did you read those earlier comments the other day of people wanting distinct separation of footy results & records between VFL & AFL? I place this argument in the category of “first world problems”. The Sydney Swans, Brisbane Bears & West Coast Eagles were based interstate & playing in the VFL for years before the VFL rebranded itself to the AFL in 1990. Both SA teams would not commit to playing in a competition named the VFL, and rightly so.
Bell31
Roar Rookie
Hi mate - thanks for the detailed reply - it's an interesting topic! I have a few further thoughts: 1) I think you might've missed what I meant re the recent Hawks dynasty - I said no.1 in the AFL era. Clearly, as you say, 80s Hawks would rank higher (and they do in my overall list too). 2) I understand the choice of 60 years - it's just seems arbitrary not to have say chosen 70 years, as you've missed probably the consensus greatest team of all time. 3) As you mention below, you were reluctant to include 2008 Hawks at risk of seeming one-eyed - I think including that as part of your 8 year criterion clearly puts them no.2 in your list (or no. 1 AFL era) and above Cats. 4) Agree that there needs to be some way of separately teams with identical finishes, although I think we emphasise different things re dominance and dynasties - I'm mainly interested in premierships won and over what span of time, followed by runner-ups, and then I'd have to go down to H&A record / % etc to split the difference, if there was any. 5) Just semi-randomly, I had a look at the 2011 Pies, who lost the GF to the cats only in the last quarter - they had a 20-2 record and a 167 % --- that seems pretty equivalent to the Cats 2008 team's record and I have a feeling there would be a few teams that would likely compare, even if Cats seasons is amongst the best of all time - but runners-up is 'nearly', not 'actual' - so it's a secondary criterion in my view. Probably as above, I'm not much fussed re H&A performance - more end result. So I look at the Lions three-peat, as more formidable than 3 in 5 years, but I think we'll agree to disagree on that!
Mr Right
Roar Rookie
Hi Bell, nice piece back in June 2020, almost a 1-year anniversary & thanks for your detailed response. 12 months on, it probably gives readers a better perspective on the Tigers situation. I chose 60 years & clearly stated it, as I believe it has more relevance to both our readers & their parents who they might discuss it with? Sometimes an era of 100 years ago doesn’t have the same relevance factor. I won’t accept the Hawks recent era as No 1. Definitely the 80s Hawks take the cake. In the era I mentioned recently, both Geelong & the Hawks played 4 Grand Finals, won 3 premierships & played in 5 prelims. My mindset in ranking them was both the number of premierships as well as how dominant they were in & around that period. If you look at the 2000 Essendon side & the Bulldogs side of 2016, tell me there is no difference due to the fact that they both finished premiers? How do you separate identical finishes if you are going to rank them? The main reason I rated Geelong No 2 & Hawthorn No 3 was that I believe the 2008 Geelong team were the best team I have seen that didn’t go on to win a premiership in that year. They only lost 1 game before the GF & 161.8% in the H&A. They had 34 scoring shots to 25 in the GF for a loss. It would have given them the 3peat & 4 premierships in 5 years. In my article, I placed Brisbane No 4 as they got towelled up in their 4th GF in 2004 by 40 points, they didn’t do much before this time & definitely do anything afterwards. They didn’t finish higher than 3rd in a H&A season.
Mr Right
Roar Rookie
I take your point. In hindsight I probably should have. As a Hawks man I was loathe to pump my club up too much as I pride myself on being an objective sports fan. They weren't overly competitive in 2009-10, but they bounce back in 2010 & by strict numbers I definitely should have.
Brian
Guest
The Crows were actually better in 2005-06 then 1997-98, Blight just nailed the Finals which is obviously important but they weren't one of the all time great sides. If anything North 1993-2000 is a better case
Luke
Guest
I just want to add that at the beginning of your piece you mentioned that it was for clubs winning multiple flags over an 8 years period. In which case, you should also include 2008 premiership for Hawthorn, as 8 years for them was between 2008 and 2015.
Bell31
Roar Rookie
PS sorry - need to work-out formatting in my replies, as I had points separated, but it ended up mashed together!
Bell31
Roar Rookie
Good first article @MrRight! I'm a bit late to the party, but an area of interest of mine - see https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/06/11/the-ten-greatest-vfl-afl-dynasties/ A few questions: 1) Given you refer to 8 years runs of success, why didn't you include the Hawks' 2008 premiership as part of that team's success? That should propel them to no.1 in the AFL era over the Cats. I had this team as no.5 all-time in my analysis. 2) I understand you've used percentages as part of defining success (and probably an oversight in my analysis), but I see percentages as a secondary criterion -- surely, the Lions with 3 flags in a row and runners up in Year 4, deserve a higher rating than the Cats with 3 flags in 5 years, no back-to-back and 1 runners' up? I have Lions in my 6 to 10 ranking all time and cats as an honourable mention! (which is where I'd have the current Tigers team as well) 3) I couldn't work-out why you decided on the last 60 years? If you'd gone back say 70 years, you'd have included arguably the best team of all time - the 50s / 60s Demons. I would've thought you'd either go all-time for VFL/AFL, modern era only, OR if you want to take an AFL/VFL sub-section, start post 1930 (sad for my Pies) when the challenge system was scrapped, or even post 1950, given the discontinuity in the 30s and 40s?
Clear as mud
Guest
???
Mr Right
Roar Rookie
I did make mention of Adelaide at the end of my article. But my post is more about clubs that maintained extended success. Have a look at their results around that period. Season Result Ladder H&A 1996 Missed 8 12TH 96.0 1997 Premiers 4TH 121.6 1998 Premiers 5TH 123.2 1999 Missed 8 13TH 85.3 2000 Missed 8 11TH 96.1
AdamDilligafThompson
Roar Rookie
was just wondering if it was him or the media giving him extra scrutiny after the deal he signed because I'd never heard or noticed anything previously, well that i can remember.lol.
Tony W
Roar Rookie
and 87 was pretty good and made Robert walls look like a coach. Not a Carlton barracker but Bosustow!
Aaron Paul
Roar Rookie
what about the crows dominance in the late 90's?
Curmudgeon1961
Roar Rookie
Port matched it with Lions in those regular seasons too. For the purposes of the article they were the team of the AFL era
Curmudgeon1961
Roar Rookie
First 11 games at Melbourne at home 2016? Mostly it was a feelgood story and the club handled thier win with rare grace & dignity
1dog
Roar Rookie
He’s always seemed a yippie kiyaaaah kind. When he’s on he’s on though