The AFL fumbles the ball

Dave - the flip side of Collingwoods 18 'home games' is that for most of those games, they aren't a 'clear' home game anyway, as all the Melb based clubs seek to play Collingwood in Melbourne. The fixture - yes, was fabulous as 22 rnds for a 12 team suburban comp, but, much to the chagrin of some who claim it still to be a suburban comp - it's moved on. The fixture - it'd be lovely to be more 'balanced'. But it isn't - - so, we choose to live with it. I still maintain that Geelong has the best of all home ground advantages - better than the interstaters (from a Vic perspective). Millster - the one thing about diving in soccer - - the 'theatre' of it all means that the 'theatre' of something like Mr.Trinidad is incomparable to other codes. I do feel though, in AFL for example - the reward of a potential 50m penalty is too great to sometimes NOT accentuate 'contact'.......and that's the problem....... ....in any sport - - the potential reward...........but.........again, in soccer, with scores nil all and defences on top, the opportunity to play for a 'penalty' might be too great, or the chance to 'play for a red card' might be too great to pass up. The impact on the outcome - - if a single 'dive' results in the sole score...........vs in AFL, perhaps 3 goals of 24 were in some part due to accentuation of contact in the aim to 'milk' a free or a 50m penalty.......... you tell me which is the more significant. Anyway - - PART of this issue comes back to the use of Red Cards in soccer - - it's the flipside of that particular debate. In AFL, you may overact, draw a free and 50m, and perhaps even a report - but, you don't get the fellow sent off and you don't get the opposition reduced in strength by one man. And what you DO get is very public judgement and condemnation when that 'report' goes to the tribunal and you are exposed as having 'simulated', 'acted', 'dove' whatever.

Dave, Very cynical of you, I haven;'t really looked into it, but did briefly read we are travelling for the first two weeks of the season. To be honest I've never worried about it. Friday nights games used to be annoying though becuase the daugher's basketball commitments would prevent me from attending the game. Redb

Redb l gather Essendon must have done ok also in the draw... ;)

Dave, As I've said on another thread, we'll play anyone anywhere. Whinging and bitching about the fixture is just to create excuses for your team. Redb

Redb Seriously how can it be that Collingwood get 18 effective home games per year and no one says boo? The draw is so unfair that it is more of a joke than ever...at least when l watched 22 games and everyone played each other home and away (there were actual home grounds then) :) The maximization of crowds has totally compromised the fixturing and no matter how they try to equalize the team lists the money grabbers at AFL house sure let it known who they want in the finals.

See ya Millster, take your round ball with you. :-) Just kidding. Redb

I'm outa here. We're discussing false stereotypes not reality.

Lazza - sad as it was, 'that' foul was fair. Recent discussion on this site made me look it up over the weekend on youtube. Neill doesn't just slide in (stupid enough, as you point out). He also raises his arm into Grosso's legs and interferes with him. I was full of emotion and rage when it happened and that clouded my judgement somewhat. But with a couple of years past, replaying it after some time, I have absolutely no doubt that it was a fair penalty and I would give it myself a million times over if I was a ref.

RedB - back at you... before you can be fixed you have to admit you have a serious problem. On the games of AFL I sawover the last year, your code surely has to start approaching that stage.

Savvas - certainly the AFL interpretation around hands in the back for example was a good example of something that would be painful in the short term........but beneficial in the long term. I hated some of the incidental contact free kicks that were called, but, the reality was that that was preferable to all the holding and illegal hands in the back contact that had been permitted. It's great to see the use of the 'hip' returning to a marking duel, and perhaps it lays the way open for the return of hippy players.........such as Dunstall, Lockett etc. And, most the other 'bizarre' rules at present are simply available for fan feedback regarding the NAB cup - (you can answer an on line survey/questionaire around the rules via AFL.com.au). Any AFL whingers seem to not notice HOW OFTEN they are invited to provide feedback/input via the AFL website. This is part of the glory of a game of our own.

The only markets that Football hasn't conqured are the former English speaking colonies. FIFA would like us involved but with another 190 nations on board it's not their highest priority. We are just such a bunch of hypocrites. The entire Cricket world hates our national team because of its' "win at all costs" attitude. Yet we condemn other countries when they do it? If Lucas Neil had stayed on his feet, instead of sliding in without getting the ball there would have been NO penalty. As any junior soccer coach will tell you, if a defender goes to ground in the penalty box bad things can happen. If the reverse happened, Italians wouldn't be accusing us of cheating. They would just blame the defender.

Millster, I'll leave you with this thought with regard to the degree to which simulation occurs in all football codes. ...The toughest penalties apply in the sport where simulation is the greatest blight on the game... Redb

Simulation is a big deal in the new markets that soccer covets - - and it just makes the game look soft when compared to the contact football codes. And - - seemingly it plays on the minds of Australian soccer players/promotors....... .....why else did Ross Aloisi go on and on about it when interviewed on SEN recently, and about how the AFL and NRL fans would regard that behaviour. Just do it now - - google "Ross Aloisi simulation" when we AFL folk read that..........it seems as though it's fair enough that we figure it's deemed a problem, or, are you saying elsewhere in the world, such as South AMerica where these folk such as Mr.Trinidad learned their craft - - that simulation is such a 'fair' part of the game that only these crazy Australians regard it as being unsightly, unsportsman like and pretty well lacking in what you're supposed to kick. Now - - - we know only too well the reaction to the 'dive' in the Australia v Italy match..........we know that in soccer where perhaps only 1 goal may be scored for an entire game........that diving is deemed a very valid tactic as perhaps the ONLY way to get in a pretty good scoring position.......i.e. having a penalty shot is better than 50%, compared to about 8% from the general field of play. OH.......yeah.....look, I agree...........it's not an issue and we are totally barking up the wrong tree - oh how we are so ill informed?!??!?

Lazza, If its not big deal to soccah fans why did FIFA move to outlaw it? was it? a. Coz they hadn't changed a law for a decade and the board were bored. b. The Referees wanted another excuse to thrust their hand in the air with a red card or c. Once the game was shown in non soccah countries to fans raised on the other football codes they realised it would be a huge turn off to see a player writhing on the ground only to look up and see he wasn't even touched. (Robin Williams does a very funny gag on this) There's playing for a free kick and there's full on Academy Award winning acting or simulation acting all girly. ;-) Redb

While overall I am amused at how quickly this has descended into code v code, and I'm not buying in, the one thing I want to remind redb of is that if it's diving you're attacking then you're on shaky ground as an AFL fan. I see far more examples of milking and simulation and accentuation these days in AFL than in football - whether local or european. So lets be careful about the accusations when of the 4 codes you're coming from the one with the worst problem in this respect.

Redb, You are just showing your ignorance of Football again. AFL fans like to pretend that simulation is the 2nd worst human rights violation after genocide but it isn't that big a deal to most Football fans around the world. The only people who have a 'problem' with it seems to be Anglo-Saxons. In England they use it as an excuse to bash foreigners, in Australia they use it as an excuse to bash Football. You still don't get it, they're not 'girly', they are pretending to get a free kick. Now compared to the drug cheating culture which is prevalent in the Olympics and other sports, who has the bigger problem?

There's been a bit of tweaking around off-side over the journey as well, it's relatively recent the 'passive off-side' interpretation as well.

re your last comment...what about the recently introduced rules regarding simulation? When faced with global humilation against other male sports, FIFA had to do something about its girly players not carryong on like Bollywood stars. :-) Redb

Lazza, I mentioned all codes, not just soccah. Redb

Redb, For an AFL man you just can't seem to stop talking about FOOTBALL. FIFA has 214 members, only 53 from Europe. Where's the pressing need to make changes in Football? It has the biggest event in the World, the biggest league, the most nations, participants, TV Ratings, interest etc? Do you want it to become even bigger? Sports need to make changes when they're a minority sport trying to expand or interest is waning.