Should the AFL kill off International Rules?

it looks like the sashes may have come from Horse racing. http://www.sumthink.com.au/history.htm "The racing link that has been hinted at and even speculated, in the past, can now be confirmed. The following information has been sourced from the original version and earliest existing record of The Turf Register, the official race results book, printed in 1875-76. Hurtle Fisher had officially registered his racing colours with the Secretary of the V.R.C. back in 1871. These are: Rose and Black striped jacket with Rose cap. Rose and Black jacket with Black cap. Source: The Turf Register 1875-76 Hurtle Fisher was one of the original foundation members of the V.R.C. in 1864. Charles B. Fisher was one of Australia’s richest landowners and was unanimously elected chairman of the V.R.C. in 1883 a position he held until his retirement in 1895. Alex McCracken also served as the Chairman of the V.R.C. (1907). There is a direct theme (and colour scheme) that runs through every one of these local clubs. The colours “black with red sash” also feature prominently for all three families - Fisher, McCracken and Spong. Which are now synonymous throughout Victoria, Australia and the World as the colours of Essendon........."

If you want to see a merged hockey type game, Scotland play Ireland in hurling/shinty compromise rules. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_rules_shinty-hurling "..Composite rules shinty-hurling (sometimes known simply as shinty-hurling or, particularly in Ireland, compromise rules) is a hybrid sport which was developed to facilitate international representative matches between shinty players and hurling players....."

I think the Irish connection to Australian football is very strong. You just have to look at the sash on the jumpers worn by Richmond and Essendon and compare them with the sashes worn by Catholics in Ireland to designate membership of societies of Our Lady to see the influence. Such societies, including the wearing of sashes, were also part of the life of many Australian Catholic school children as late as the 1950s. It is much rarer to see a sash on a rugby or football jumper.

Ren, you and your bros are living in a fantasy land!!!! You think some small American town is going to let a couple of ex pat Aussies smooth out the pitchers mound, grass over the batting plate and the triangle so that a few aussie ex pats and a handfull of curious locals could play aussie rules!!! You don't think they are as passionate about their game and their playing fields also???? wake up bro, the world is not Melbourne!!!

slight tangent, but in addition to cricket grounds what about baseball stadia, home plate to center field is around 400 feet in every major ballpark, just looking on wikipedia the diamond area looks too narrow (for goals at home plate and center field), however this would be easy to modify at community grounds. The more i think about it the more sense it makes.

...and 500 people turned up to watch! -- SSB

The other day the German Black EAgles took on the Czech Republic in a full Euro Champs rules 'international'. 9 aside on a soccer pitch. 4 * 20 minute quarters. So, that's how they run those games. btw - Germany had a good win. (and I gather they, as per normal, used no expat Aussies).

Cricket is played in at least 105 countries and is very popular in some of the biggest nations in the world its one of the most popular sports on the planet.

AFL will never be a serious international game unless and until it addresses the key issue of the amount of land required to play on under the current rules. All other football codes can play on essentially the same rectangular pitch, thereby sharing stadiums etc. Even the funny American code can use the same stadiums built for soccer and/or rugby which you will find almost everywhere in the world. Under the current rules AFL can only be played on an oval, essentially limiting you to those few countries who play cricket AND who will allow you to run across their cricket pitches in football boots. What is needed as a first step to any serious international ambitions. is an amendment to the rules to allow AFL to be played on a rectangualar field where appropriate.

Fascinating stuff lads. Youse know your history. thanks..

Absolutely. American Football, like all things American, has the advantage of being ingrained into popular culture because so much of pop-culture globally is wrapped up in American TV and cinema. Australian Football, and the rugby codes for that matter, are at a natural disadvantage in that almost everyone is at least slightly familiar with American sports through secondary means.

(trying to reply to Dave - ) If the 4 codes take away all the young men of Samoa etc - it'll help achieve the repopulation of Pacific Islanders from low lieing lands vulnerable to sea level rise........another example of sports being used to achieve what governments would find too hard to do via legislation.

If AFL, league, Rugby and the NFL go their act together there wouldnt be a male between the ages of 18 and 34 left in Samoa.

Yes they were indeed Dave. The 'Shinboners' were called thus due to their Butcher heritage of whom many were Irish. I don't know as much about the Tiges but am aware of their Irish links also. Essendon also had a high Irish Catholic population however most went to North because the club was run by a number of influential Scottish Presbyterian familiies in its former years, who didn't much care for the 'tykes' and kept them out of the team. North recruited mostly from the Essendon Catholic schools of the day one of which my grandfather attended. He nevertheless supported Essendon and in latter years the Saints as well, moving to Ellwood just after the depression. Cheers

Redb, The total post count on this topic now 110- It looks like you touched a nerve somewhere. The answer is obviously no. That match last night was again significant long term - The inaugral U20 Oceania team had players from several South Pacific countries which used to be Rugby Codes/Soccer exclusive - Not anymore. Even Fiji is up and running - The bastion of Rugby Union. The aim now is to get Oceania U16 and U18 teams into the Aust Nationals with AFL scouts looking on. There will be Oceania Champs at the end of the year featuring several countries. The fourth footy code has arrived - The kids win with more choice and sport wins.

I think Richmond and North Melbourne were also known as working class Catholic clubs http://www.emelbourne.net.au/biogs/EM00593b.htm

Pippinu. I have to agree with your sentiment about not getting hung up on superficial similarities. I have not once denied the Union link - its a matter of how influential this has been. Those of your ilk are very quick to dismiss anything other than the latter. Your reference to English pvt schools re our game was certainly established well past the period I refer to. History is subjective and in that sense we should not only be open to what has been written but what has not - yet been written. Your reading of history obviously has skitrted the references to the Gaelic and Indigenous influences on our games evolution. Remember, what you have read was first said and alot of relevant history is still to be written, to be sure. I refer affectionately to it as a 'mongrel' game simply because its influences were broad and varied and my background, also from Melbourne originally (but our game should not be exclusive to that city), am of Irish heritage which has exposed me to a number of publications which not only espouse the Gaelic link but are as convincing as any so called Rugby link. I also have read, as Michael stated, that the Irish were indeed very tribal in those early days and did not join the fray in any formal way, by creating specific clubs or teams, but did continue with their Gaelic games. Nevertheless they did play a major role in building the game in those crude foundation years and many joined established clubs as the game developed. Colllingwood of course was known as the Irish Catholic club for many years. The thrust of my argument is that the influence on our game cannot be attributed soley to Rugby and if anything, this has been overstated to excessive advantage, in the main, due to the status quo of the day, keeping the irish on the margins of Melbourne Society. This continues in a more sophisticated and covert way given the AFL's blinkered attempt at writing its history recently, without any recognition of very robust evidence of Gaelic (including some Gaelic Scotts) and Indigenous links to the game. Marngrook is another debate altogether but for now lets just say that Australian footy is NOT exclusively a product of the English Pvt Schools system, that is a ridiculous sentiment to entertain and Union most certainly did not shape our game the way many, perhaps those in the English Pvt School system, would have us believe. Its relevance has been exaggerated and taken out of context for way too long. If Gaelic Footy is not our codes 'long lost parent' taking into account that the Irish were 50% of the population, then Rugby most certainly is NOT either; you cannot have your cake and eat it too in that respect. Cheers.

I should add, my personal opinion is that I'd be happier if Australia fielded a team playing the Irish at Gaelic football, than the hybrid game - so I don't have anything against Gaelic, and certainly view the game as a cousin of ours (but not as our long lost parent).