The betrayal of Victorian Rugby

Is Mt Buller meant to be the sporting capital of Australia?

I was skiing in victoria at the time of the bledisloe cup game in sydney and unfortunatly i did not have access to pay tv. I went to every pub and bar in the town to try and catch the game but not one of these outlets had the game on or had even known it was on. So much for their boast of being the sporting capitol of australia and being australias nomination for our next team in the super 15. Even channel 7 did not show it. Not only will the Victorians have to import players for their team but they will need to bring in supporters to cheer them on.

hey justin how about grown men sitting around a table talking like adults for the good of rugby. Instead of in the media like fools. The laughing stock of rugby at the moment and all because people can't act professionally. Get it right people sit down, talk it through, work it out!

I think you are being a little dramatic Todd. I got the same meaningless survey. Its not like they can solicit responses from people without their permission. Who else would you like them to send it to? It was a waste of time though. It would appear the ARU management may come under some fierce fire when the dust settles. The ARU board did not rubber stamp the VICS15 bid as was scheduled last night. Its clear from this the Board is not satisfied with the process. I predict that each faction will be presenting their case directly to the Board or want to hear from them all in some capacity. Is it unprofessional to let personal feelings get in the way of business and strategic decisions? I would have thought so and its not the VRU making any major strategic decision for rugby in this country.

The VRU are acting in a very inappropriate and unprofessional manner. They have sent out via sweeney research a questionairre asking which of the three groups you supported for the bid process. They only sent it to people who had registered with the VRU. You self serving so called supporters of Victorian rugby are an absolute disgrace. Regardless of what happens with the bid process the VRU will never garner my support or that of a number of my friends who will be cancelling our weary dunlop memberships and having nothing to do with any VRU led initiatives. This is disgraceful behaviour and completely detrimental to the S15 bid. Disgraceful.

Dopey. I wholeheartedly agree with your observations regarding a demarcation between professional sport and community run sport. I don't wish to spend any further time elaborating on the ethical and philosophical pros and cons of this. I have commented previously on 'Roars' Australian Footy blogs in the main and must agree to disagree with you and those of your persuasion, who support the corporate top down appraoch to growth. As I said in my earlier reply to you, I do believe this to be ultimately disenfranchising to the culture of community sport. Can I finish by giving a common example whereby the rule of young kids is now that they aspire to the most successful franchise who would pay the biggest sum, rather than playing for their local tribe and I am talking about 14 year olds here. This is but one consequence of what has been an insidious ethical erosion to sport and there is naught yet to convince me otherwise. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter Dopey.

In general terms, I'd agree - my preference would be a structure whereby the Wallabies were the primary responsibility of the ARU, drawn in the main from the Super teams that were the responsibility of the State unions, each drawing from a larger pool of semi-professional private equity teams playing in a domestic competition. It would reduce or eliminate the cost of a domestic comp, whilst still ensuring that the players would want to progress into the professional world controlled by the ARU. The PE domestic competition would also be highly motivated to increase their market and promote the sport, as they would receive whatever supporter and broadcasting revenues they could generate. I think giving PE control over the supporting level to Test rugby will be highly risky. The stakes are increased, the money involved is greater, and the consequences of it going wrong are much greater. It might have worked for the A-League, but the reality is that that competition is the effective equivalent of the ARC. We are taking much bigger risks with our sport.

Bonza, How would it work? Quite simply I would imagination - the Victoria Rugby Union would continue to run the community rugby programs (local junior and senior competitions) and development programs just as they are mandated to do as part of their affiliation to the Australian Rugby Union. The franchise would (and let's remember it is a franchise we are talking about) would run the professional team competing in the S15 (if successful with the bid). Perhaps you have misinterpreted my point - I am not saying that a professional team has to absolve themselves of the responsibility of community development work and any sporting team competing in a market as crowded as that in Australia will (if they've got half a marketing brain) undertake extensive community engagement. But let's not confuse junior and grassroots development programs with marketing and promotions. Al Baxter isn't out there 5 days a week running Junior Development programs - the NSWRU development staff are doing this - Baxter et al show up for publicity to promote, wait for it, ticket sales to Waratahs games. London-to-a-brick the Vic Super 15 team will be doing exactly the same thing - regardless of who is running the show. I am not saying whether private equity is a good or bad thing for Super rugby in Australia - that is an entirely different argument. My point is simple: the success of the Victorian Super Rugby team is not, in my view, dependent on it being run by the VRU. The best thing for Victorian Rugby, Australian Rugby and Super Rugby, is that the license be awarded to the bid that presents the best long term on-field and off-field viability. P.S. The St. George Illawarra Dragons do not run any Junior competitions. They are run by the St. George District Junior Rugby League - with a completely separate board and Governance Structure. Not a bad idea if you ask me.

yes cos maybe the leadership is inept and too controlling;and now needs funds;says it all dont it

Cookee, Leadership is vital, but the game seems inept at making the right call and then stewarding it through to the desired outcome. At stake is the games very relevance in Australia. Redb

REDB,I ASK MYSELF WHY THERE IS SO MUCH CONFLICT AND TURMOIL IN AUST RUGBY. COULD IT POSSIBLY BE A LEADERSHIP STYLE?

If rugby (ARU) cant get its act together with the Melbourne Super rugby team there is little hope for the code. It has to be Melbourne team by name and in spirit, dont go down the Melb Storm 'franchise' corporate road. Redb

Westy, If I had my way, I would resurrect the ARC, & have a 10 team format. The teams & their catchment areas, would be as follows: Sydney - Sydney North Shore & Central North NSW Country East Sydney - Sydney East & South & Central West NSW country West Sydney - Greater Western Sydney & South Western NSW Country Central Coast - NSW Central Coast & North Coast Gold Coast - South-East Qld Brisbane - Metro & North Qld Canberra - ACT & Southern NSW Melbourne - all Vic & Tas Adelaide - all SA & NT Perth - all WA Newcastle & North Qld would have to wait their turn. The 10 national clubs would all have private equity & recruit 35 players each. 15 players per club would be full professionals. The remainder would initially be only semi-professionals until the game earned more money to pay them as full professionals. Suddenly, the ARU would have 350 players of at least semi-professional standard, & from that 50 top quality potential Wallabies. Furthermore, with 10 elite head coaches gaining experience, we might not need to get our national coach from overseas in future. The states & territories would still be administratively responsible for producing, developing & organising juniors up to district, suburban & regional comps. There would have to be a two way set-up between the states/territories & the national clubs. With a national club in place to act as an incentive career path, development officers would be sent out to the states & territories, & especially the rapid development youth areas (Western Sydney, Central Coast, Gold Coast, Southern Brisbane) to recruit schools & players across to rugby union. The development officers must be given every assistance required to make their task successful, because it will certainly be arduous. The ARU would continue to oversee the whole national domestic structure. There's no denying this would be a massive task, but the longer we twiddle, the longer rugby will continue to drift aimlessly, perhaps even sink terminally.

If Southern Kings get the 15th license, I will cease following rugby. I simply won't accept that decision. I also don't think O'Neill ever wants it, but he's a pragmatist. I wonder if the ARU, or the 4 Aussie franchises, would have the balls to walk away from SANZAR??? I actually think the KIwis might join them to form a Trans-Tasman comp. But Southern Kings in the Aussie conference, if it happens, that will be the end of my support for rugby union. I simply won't cop that at all!

My only concern in this is that there is Sydney money for a Melbourne bid but no such funds for a Western Sydney bid. Does Australian rugby want a depth of quality players . if i get someone who tells me again Ioane mackenzie and weary Dunlop were from Victoria! I need a western sydney franchise to compete with rugby league and AFL in Western sydney or has some moron at ARU thought the AFL are only after rugby league boys.. Hayne Inu Fui Matteo even mortimer all played rugby. We stand to lose the north west if we are not careful. The Anglos of Eastwood and epping have shifted there and are directly targeted. Do you really think you are going to get players anymore from Eastwood and Epping. Does the ARU have any idea of these demographic shifts or is it they are not interested . that rugby is to be a top down sport in Australia . We will buy players for our teams not develop them. This is a strategy just one no one wants to admit to.

Republican, Lest there be any confusion I am actually a great fan of the ACT Brumbies. Long may they reign & enjoy many battles with the Victoria Rebels!

Dopey - do you live in NSW? there is a strong (maybe not necessary) expectation in rugby that the Local team will service the local rugby community. This is a major gripe in NSW and QLD and has been since the professional game came in. Running the team is one thing - getting a serviceable connection with the community (who we hope will turn up to watch is another) The St George dragons has a massive juniors structure, way beyond just the team itself. and this is managed by the club. Sure the NRL do development work and this is already being done by the ARU but dont think the new team isnt going to incur the cost of this directly and indirectly and have to front up to promote and participate. When you have competition between sports then you need to do a little more than just put on a first team fixture The VRU is not going to be able to pay the new new to participate in development like the AFL does with the Swans so please explain how this would work. The ARU is chasing private equity to get financial relief already

AndyS Cannot see it being that complex ... if ARU wanted SA to have the 6th team ... just say so far less flack than this method... Someone way back said it and it was said very welll... sometimes the ARU has problems seeing RU outside Sydney's ES... look at howWS has been lost ... IF SA get the extra place then so be it ... but nothing will convience me that is what JON wanted...

AndyS, when the Southern Kings (i.e. Eastern Province) can start winning games in 2nd division currie cup then they should be allowed into Super rugby.

The point that seems to be being missed is that both the Sydney money man behind the VicSuper 15 bid and Victorian Sports Minister have said that the VRU has to be involved. There is a clear risk that, if they aren't, the bid that has been recommended falls over and/or you have a hostile government (and therefore issues with the ground you wish to use). Everyone is so sure JO'N is a very smart cookie - surely these things can't be lost on him. So the question is...why? So, as I've heard it, the conspiracy theory runs that there was a price for reformatting Super rugby so that it stretched into August and moved the TriNations to Sept/Oct to go up against the NRL/AFL, when that created a big clash with the CC. That price was that SARU would get the team that politics demand. The ARU would still come out in front - they don't have to fund another team or stretch the finances sourcing players, they just have to kick in a bit more to the travel budget. But they certainly can't come out and tell people about the deal, as there would be hell to pay. So instead, they cripple the bid such that SANZAR doesn't have a choice but pick the SA team, then the ARU tells everyone they were out-voted and pin the blame on the VRU. It might be a little far-fetched, depending on how firm the agreement on revenue splitting is, the ability of SANZAR to reassign share based on the final structure of the S15, and how the S15 will be organised in terms of pool play and the conferences. But if Australia were keeping the bulk of the extra money under the broadcast agreement with SA picking up the tab for the new team, and/or the SA team would be based in Aus for the conference round (more home games), or the home and away for conference teams was spread over the whole schedule rather than a specific set of derby rounds (minimise travel costs).......well, then maybe. As has been noted, this could easily be a test run for separating the professional and amateur structures. Not necessarily a bad idea, but there is the question of funding - as it stands, the ARU distributes a share of the broadcast revenues to the teams, after which they the generate whatever revenues they can. That money either flows back into the team, or goes into amateur rugby - these are not for-profit entities, after all. That will change once private equity gets involved, as they will become for-profit. So if there is to be a split, an appropriate guaranteed funding arrangement would be required. I don't know where the various teams sit in terms of how much they contribute via the Unions to the amateur game, but I would have thought a board representative and an indexed $3M to $5M a year guaranteed funding might get the VRU behind the bid. One thing to note though - once these teams are PE, they will be entitled to do pursue the maximum revenues that they can generate. While they'll have to negotiate some working agreement about player availability for the Wallabies, I would not expect any of the players to be available for club rugby ever again. The risk of injury would simply be too high, and the teams would all be looking to get paying tours of Japan or the US or something. That includes the Waratahs if they become a private organisation - they will no longer owe the NSWRU anything, so sucks to the Shute Shield.