Martin Fenin from Frankfurt, left, and from Nuremberg Matthew Spiranovic, center, and Jacques Abardonado, right, challenge for the ball. AP Photo/Daniel Roland
It wasn’t so long ago that Matthew Spiranovic was being talked up as the next great Socceroos defender, having burst on to the Bundesliga scene as a teen phenom with FC Nürnberg.
But last week Spira left Germany on loan for Japanese club Urawa Red Diamonds, the latest in a trickle of Aussies trying to reignite their fading representative careers by decamping to the Land of the Rising Sun.
The number of Australians playing in Japan presently stands at four: Eddy Bosnar at top-tier side Shimizu S-Pulse, Mark Milligan at JEF United (where he came in to replace Bosnar), Josh Kennedy at Nagoya Grampus and the aforementioned Spira.
Since the early 1970s the likes of Dennis Boland, Mark Rudan, Graham Arnold and Steve Corica, among others, have all plied their trade at one time or another in Japan.
But does national coach Pim Verbeek rate the league and the other comp over the ditch, the K-League, that highly?
On the basis of selecting players for the national team, the answer appears to be no.
Towering unit Bosnar, who continues to be overlooked for the Socceroos despite having signed for one of the most exciting and best supported teams in the J-League, would likely agree with that analysis.
As would Sasa Ognenovski, who was a rock for Seongnam Ilhwa Chunma in the K-League, being part of a side that went to the final and qualified for the Asian Champions League.
Jade North and Antun Kovacic, meanwhile, would undoubtedly prefer we not mention them at all, their switches to Incheon United and Ulsan Hyundai Horang-i from the A-League failing to set the world on fire.
North, who has been the recipient of some great forbearance from Verbeek, will be very lucky to get to South Africa at all.
Only Kennedy, Mr Rent-a-Melon for Nagoya and the Socceroos, has got any consistent love from the Australia coach.
If you look at Verbeek’s CV, outside of his roles with Korea Republic, he hasn’t had a great time of it in the Far East. Two spells as a club coach in Japan, first with then-amateur-cum-J2 club Omiya Ardija in the late 1990s, followed by a short stint at Kyoto Purple Sanga in 2003 (he quit the job for Netherlands Antilles).
Nothing to crow about.
Yet if you make the supposition that Verbeek doesn’t rate the J- and K-Leagues, it’s contradicted by his own statements, made to me in interviews, that “the organisation around the national teams and club teams [in Korea] is absolutely fantastic – the best of the best” and “I was really impressed by the [Japanese] culture, by the J-League itself”.
The only hint he has given me of his reservations about Japanese football in the various conversations I’ve had with the man was when he explained: “The Japanese play combination football. More Brazilian influences than European.
“Efficiency wasn’t so high because they were focused on combination and ball possession instead of scoring goals … in Japan, they always try to build out from the backline to the midfield to the striker and back and that’s the way they prefer to play.”
Too fancy for No-Frills Pim, then? Perhaps.
So, ultimately, is Japan a good move for World Cup hopeful Spiranovic?
Urawa is a massive club but is in a period of decline, having finished seventh and sixth in its past two seasons after a golden period in the mid to late noughties.
It’s thought Spira has come to plug the gap left by Japan star Marcus Tulio Tanaka, who sensationally quit the club for Nagoya Grampus, which on one level attests to the young Australian’s quality to be spoken of in the same breath as Tanaka, but also should be regarded as a reminder that he keep his options open.
My Roar colleague Mike Tuckerman, a former resident of Japan, explained to me recently: “Tulio went nuts at Urawa for selling Alessandro Santos to Nagoya midway through last season… he basically labelled the Reds back-room staff ‘idiots’ and they were determined to get rid of him.”
Let’s hope Spira’s loan deal isn’t so fraught with politics.
And for his sake and the nation’s, let’s pray he gets to play some football and Pim, most importantly, is watching.
Ben of Phnom Penh
Guest
If football were to be measured on the production of individuals this would be true. If it is to be measured on the quality of the game itself then less so.
gazz
Roar Pro
I think he clearly does. The examples you use are irrelevant. -Ognenovski is a separate case, due to Verbeek stating he's better off chasing an international career Macedonia, even when he was in the A-League. -North has simply fallen out of favour at club level and therefore isn't getting the gametime required to play internationally. -And Bosnar seems to not be deemed good enough for the Socceroos. When you look at Mark Milligan, playing in China, getting called up you realise Pim must believe these leagues aren't too bad. I mean, China is clearly weaker than Korea and Japan (just look at ACL performances) and Milligan can get a run.
dannyshepherd
Guest
and yet african club football is of the lowest standard... maybe these african players are being 'produced' in europe...
jimbo
Guest
Not such a bad game tonight and a good goal from Travis Dodd. He is starting to come back to form and maybe Travis is an outside chance to get a recall for the Socceroos in the Asian Cup qualifier against Indonesia in March.
jimbo
Guest
Ogenovski hasn't played for Macedonia yet because FIFA have not accepted his eligibility, despite his intentions after being overlooked by Guus and Pim and having been named Macedonian footballer of the year in 2008. So theoretically Pim could still select the six foot five central defender to play for the Socceroos and woudn't he love to mark up against the Serbian team in South Africa for the WC.
David V.
Guest
I watched footage of a couple of games between Ayr United and Dunfermline in 1988- in the 87/88 season Dunfermline were a struggling Premier Division side, Ayr United runaway Division Two leaders. The following season, both teams were in Division One. The games between the two, footage of which exists online, were very watchable. With far more imagination and inspiration coming from players like Henry Templeton (Ayr) and Craig Robertson (Dunfermline) than most SPL players now, and certainly far more than the garbage served up by Adelaide United and Central Coast Mariners tonight and their previous two games this season!
Ben of Phnom Penh
Guest
Don't confuse the league with the players, Jesse. After all Garcia plays in the EPL but doesn't even make the Socceroos squad. This hardly means Pim doesn't rate the competition. I've watched Eddie when he played for Chiba and he isn't as good as the other prospects for the position. It is as simple as that. Spira's move is a good one as he has no doubt been told that his main problem is game time. Uruwa is a good choice. Uruwa are still a very, very big club. There's something about living in Saitama that puts a chip on the shoulders of the supporters and they really want to give it to the rest of Japan. He will be under incredible pressure to perform; and perform he will. As for Milligan he needs to move his career along and Chiba, whilst not my first choice, isn't a bad one either. Ogenovski is a better question as he has shown some quality.
David V.
Guest
I don't doubt the quality of J-League and K-League. But admittedly, as I've pointed out, Asia is still some way behind Latin America and Africa when it comes to producing players who've become true stars of European football. Those regions have been doing it for a long time, and far more of them to have made names for themselves in Europe.
dannyshepherd
Guest
no... you'll find most players go from celtic and rangers to the championship not the epl... eg, middlesborough just bought four celtic players... even if the so called better ones do go to the epl they don't do much, eg, hutton, buomsong, moore to name a few...
AndyRoo
Roar Guru
Don't know who's side of the argument this helps but FC Seoul had two great young midfielders, one went to Celtic (Ki Sung-Yong) just recently but the other to Bolton ( Lee Chung-Yong) for the start of the season and has since featured 14 times and scored 3 goals.
David V.
Guest
"Good teams"- their abysmal showings in Europe this season doesn't paint that picture.
Davstar
Guest
Your probably right, and i know the standard has dropped but honestly but i still don't see Celtic or Rangers losing to any J-league team. I still think Celtic and Rangers are good teams, players go from the SPL stright to the EPL were as players from the J-league generally have to go somewhere else then move to bigger leagues. However the J-league has alot more money then the SPL so i donno...
David V.
Guest
Very high standard? That was the case a decade ago when Celtic had Larsson and Moravcik, and Rangers had Gascoigne and Laudrup before then. The Old Firm clubs now don't have the same talent they used to, nor do they bring gifted players through the ranks like they once did. Even the worst teams in the Scottish top flight in the 90s had better players than most SPL teams do now. Scotland had produced many, many, many outstanding talents in their own right, but far fewer of them now.
Dogz R Barkn
Roar Guru
I was intrigued by this question in relation to Japan and the SPL, and did a quick search, and this is what I found: 1. all of the national U17 team ply their trade in Japan 2. all of the national U20 team ply their trade in Japan, and 3. all of the current squad play in Japan, although there are a few famous names likely to get call ups that play in Europe, e.g. Morimoto, Honda and Nakamura.
Ryan Steele
Roar Pro
While I'm usually the first to bang heads with David V., I'm finding it hard to agree with your reply. Which of the best players in the J. League went from Japan to the SPL? The only Japanese players I can think of are Nakamura and Mizuno - and Nakamura was already playing in Europe, while Mizuno is hardly in favour at either country or club levels, nor was he the most spectacular player in his home country. It's not that the SPL is rated highly in Japan - it's that Europe is rated highly in Japan, so any player that goes from Japan to any somewhat recognisable league in Europe will be considered a fantastic player. That's not to say I agree with David V., but I felt the urge to respond to this comment.
Davstar
Guest
Some of the best young players in the J-league go to the SPL to develop their Career. I agree half the teams in the SPL are weak but Celtic and Rangers are still of a very high standard and i would put them to beat any club in the J-league. Naka was Japans number one player and he played in the SPL in the last world cup not the J-league, rememberthat the SPL is rated very highly in Japan and even though its been struggling lately its still a good league
David V.
Guest
Scotland? You've gotta be kidding there- the SPL isn't far above the A-League and is probably behind the J-League et al these days. It's declined to a farcical standard well below what it was even a decade ago, let alone 2 or 3 decades ago.
Ryan Steele
Roar Pro
I really don't think Ognenovski, North, and Bosnar are worth mentioning in this argument. Ognenovski had his chance to represent Australia before moving to Korea, but all the "um-ing and ah-ing" about declaring for a national team blew it for him, and Pim essentially gave up. Sasa later declared for Macedonia, which is why Pim hasn't looked any further. Funnily enough, he's yet to earn a cap for Macedonia, despite nearly being named the country's best player of 2008. North was given several caps for the Socceroos, but having fallen out of favour at his club and given very little playing time over the last year, it doesn't take quantum physics to understand why he hasn't been called up for so long. Bosnar's issue has been previously discussed to some length on the Roar, and I remember discussing with Mike the pros and cons of his time at JEF. He was a regular starter, obviously, but his temperament and concentration caused plenty of fouls and slip-ups in defence. That's not to say he was the cause for JEF's relegation - that was inevitable, and S-Pulse wouldn't have signed him if it were the case - but it was not the performance of a national team member. We can't really question why he hasn't been called up if he's playing for Shimizu, either, because he's only just made the move and isn't currently in season. Spiranovic's move clearly is to benefit Urawa more than himself, but I can see him also getting a valuable return so long as Finke continues to run the show. Volker Finke's focus is on player development, and being able to play against the likes of Lucas, Okazaki, and Sato - all extremely talented forwards - should help him learn and grow as a player. Milligan will benefit from the huge load of games he'll be playing in J2, along with all the cup games that are involved. It's also quite different from a technical perspective, and proving he can successfully adapt to another pace will prove his worth even further.
Lmacca
Guest
I disagree, only because having seen Spiranovic at the Olympics and also vs Ireland, he's not just there for headers. He's good on the ball and got some pace. So he's not exactly like Ognenovski nor Bosnar. I think the upcoming Asian Cup game may be an ideal time for those playing in Asia to get a run - Milligan, Kennedy, Spira, the Ogre, Bosnar, North, Ryan Griffiths. See if they're any better than the A-League players who would otherwise be playing. Also would help draw a line to see how their form stacks up as a measure of the relative strength of the Japanese and Korean leagues.
Australian Football
Guest
It is hard to no what he rates or doesn't rate he is suck with one playing system and that's agianst good and bad opposition... No matter who he picks it's the same old same old formation.... ~~~~~~~ AF