The lack of a Rugby Nation

A famous rugby player once said 'knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but wisdom is knowing not to put it into a fruit salad'. 'only a few weeks ago the Northern boys were talking about how good Cipriani was now it seems some have changed their tune since it was confirmed he was leaving the North'. Ehhhhh? general attitude is Ciprani = talent unfulfilled & a player with a slightly bad attitude in general that has had a hard time coming back from an injury. Us 'Northern Boys (and Girls)' didn't just change our minds because young Danny fancies and ice cream and grabbing a few Ray's in Federation Square with his bird. Besides, we are all indiviuals with differing opinions.

I guess turkeys never vote for Xmas do they - and that the IRB will never adopt a more democratic approach.

True Tah i agree. However Europe will never cede their controlling block of votes in the IRB. The Six Nations have 11 votes which gives them a huge advantage over the SANZAR nations that only represent 7. The remaining votes are then courted by promises of tour matches, gate takings, future votes etc. The playing strength of rugby may lie in the south, but the power block and money has always resided in the north.

and very well backed up Damo ... for a try under the posts. I agree entirely, keep up your interest RF, I might not agree all the time but I won't bag you for it.

Are you sure the chairman and vice-chairman vote? I agree that it is completely outdated. The thing that irks me the most is that Tonga, Samoa and Fiji have one vote between them; three countries that have achieved more than Canada, Japan and Italy combined, whom all have 1 vote each! Each of those three Pacific countries should have a vote each, remembering rugby is actually the national sport in each. The IRB structure has always been outdated, took forever to let South Africa, New Zealand and Australia join, and even long for France to join (from memory?). They have never had a progressive voting structure.

RF one issue I think you have touched on intentionally is the democracy of the IRB, or lack thereof. Right now, each of France, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Wales, Ireland, England and Scotland have two votes. Argentina, Japan, Canada and Italy each have one. Each of the regional associations - CAR, Asia, NAWIRA, CONSUR, FORU and FIRA have a vote Plus the chairman and vice chairman each having a vote. I personally think this structure is outdated and needs to reflect something more modern than rugby in the 1970s. I find it strange that Scotland has more sway than Argentina, despite Argentina being a better performing nation with far more registered players. The current governance strucutre also gives the Islands a pathetically small say in things. Fiji has more success and players than Canada, yet is only served by its regional association FORU. They should move to regional associations having more say on the board. Of course the amount of seats would not be equal between each regional, because realistically Europe is a stronger region in rugby than say NAWIRA. If the board likes having 26 seats for its countries and regional associations, it could be split as follows: Europe - 12 seats Oceania - 4 seats Asia - 3 seats South America - 2 seats NAWIRA - 2 seats Africa - 3 seats

RF, "the lack of a holistic and supportive approach to all rugby unions worldwide" is no different to any other sport that has numerous countries each playing to their own agenda. To compare the politics of the IRB to that of both the NRL/AFL is like chalk and cheese. The ICC, FIFA, IOC, CGF (Commonwealth Games Federation) etc all suffer from the same criticisms' you are making, except they are bigger and therefore change is harder. ie, look at how hard it has been to introduce any form of 3rd ref/video replay into professional/international football.

Interesting point in your article RF. I am surprised at the reactions from some of the earlier posters. What your age, income or foxtel subscription has to do with an opinion about rugby culture is beyond me. You lot know who you are . You should be pinged for playing the man , not the ball. Fair opinion I thought. Why do we not have a sense of unity for our code? That crosses borders and hemispheres. It is not just a case of differing opinions. RF was, I think, referring to a trend in opinions leading to a disunity within the code. Of course we may not ever have a "rugby nation". That may be a sad fact of life but there's still reason to ask - 'does it have to be so?' Well played RF and well defended.

'I think it is pretty black and white – no English born player is better than Flutey (at least in the eyes of the selectors) at centre. Comparing that to Harrison is not fair, Harrison isn’t a starting international in a country with more registered players than any other.' You miss the point, Sam, which is that Flutey is English. He is qualified to represent England and thus where he is born is effectively irrelevant. You also miss the point of what I was saying. Tah's implication was that it was easy for a S14 reject to make the big time, and clearly that is a gross oversimplification of the matter, hence I stated that a useless GP player could walk straight back into (allegedly) the best Australian S14 team.

I don't know if you are trying to be funny, but give him a break. He doesn't need to justify why he doesn't have Foxtel, nor a detailed timetable of his study habits.

I think it is pretty black and white - no English born player is better than Flutey (at least in the eyes of the selectors) at centre. Comparing that to Harrison is not fair, Harrison isn't a starting international in a country with more registered players than any other.

Since when is he an English citizen? I'm not saying your wrong, just wondering. Certainly would help him not having to get a visa with all that jet setting he does! It isn't quite the same to compare Flutey with many of the polynesians in NZ and Australia, how many of them moved there because they secured a professional contract? Anyway I think Flutey is a pretty good example of the perils professionalism has created regarding international eligibility - and no country is innocent of exploiting it (although some do this more than others).

should you be drinking at a pub when your meant to be stuyding? i suggest you get foxtel and stay in doors. with all the violence on the streets now days its not safe for a young college student to be wandering the streets going to pubs.

Sam, I see your point but I have to disagree. Riki Flutley is now a English citizen so he should be allowed to represent his adopted country. I think the issue here is English Rugby lack of talent id and development. The danger here is that the richer countries will look at the pacific Islands and devloping countries for players . How long before a Samoan or fijian is representing France? What we have seen in the Antipodeans is that these players play one or 2 games for thier adopted nation then can never play for there country of origin again. Cheers

Yes I do think he's a decent defender, certainly much better than O'Gara. He also has the physique to be an effective tackler. You mentioned one poor example that Sky showed, were there any others?

There has been a lot of discussion about Cipriani in all forms of the UK media. Recently they have questioned his level of commitment to wanting to regain his England place, his physical bravery in the tackle and whether or not he is just a show pony and on the other side of the equation there have also been a lot of questions about whether England Management have given him a decent chance. I have to say that it looks to me that he has become disinterested and is looking to getting another chance in Melbourne, maintain a lower profile and see if he can't spark up his form again, come back and become loved and respected. On The Rugby Club the other evening Dewi Morris, Stuart Barnes and Will Greenwood were involved in a debate about him and based on the recent clips used there was no real desire evident to put his body on the line for his club. Good luck to him in Melbourne and I hope that he gets what he wants out of it, but at the heart of it all will be his willingness to spill his own blood on behalf of the team, once he gets that attitude right maybe his talent will again show through.

Nope.

Are you English, Realist?