“Queensland needs to get it’s own house in order before it wants any more as both the Cowboys and the Titans crowds have been very poor.”

They’re still better than many of the Sydney-based teams.

Central Queensland produces more talent for the NRL. Its potential growth is much larger too. This ought to be taken into consideration.

Why is Gosford and Ipswich/CQLD fighting it out for one lousy spot? There are 2 to 4 unprofitable Sydney-based clubs in the NRL that have no future whatsoever. Getting rid of these teams would be a better option than depriving Gosford or Ipswich/CQLD of a team.

The IC should get rid of Manly, Roosters, Sharks and maybe Penrith. I know people will say we need Penrith because it has a large junior base. Their junior base might be large, but its fans are among the most apathetic supporters in the game. The Panthers have drawn dull crowds to their home games for 15 or so years. I cannot see them growing any more than they have done over the last 30 years.

Why hasn’t the NRL axed the Roosters and Manly? The only reason I can see for keeping them in the competition is to keep rugby union’s heartland area (eastern Sydney) in check. If that’s the reason they’re still in the competition then I think the NRL has lost the plot — making league as strong as possible in its heartland and potential growth areas ought to hold priority over keeping rugby union down in a small market.

Removing the Roosters and Manly will allow the NRL to add a team in Central Queensland and Ipswish. CQ and Ipswich would sell more memberships and attract larger crowds than the Roostesr and Manly. Queensland needs to have at least five teams.

Gregor Paul lives in a fantasy world.

Are you stupid enough to believe whatever the ARU says?

Ron,

I see you’ve resorted to throwing out silly insults (IE. dullard) because you cannot make a point. How sad and pathetic!

Henry Paul was NEVER one of the best stand-offs in rugby league.

If Bennett thought so highly of Barnes then how come the bulk of Barnes’ short rugby league career was spent with the Toowoomba Clydedales? The Broncos were short on halfbacks at the time, so it’s not as if there weren’t any ball-playing positions for him to fill — Bennett ended up plucking an ageing Shane Perry out of the Queensland Cup to play halfback. I cannot see any logical reason for Bennett to not play Barnes at halfback if he rated him as highly as you’re saying. If you’re going to say it was down to age and inexperience then explain why Bennett debuted Hunt at fullback when he was still a teenager? Fullback is a vital position in modern-day rugby league. If you’re going to say it’s because a halfback needs to be experienced enough to position his forwards around the field, then how come there have been other players of similar age who have debuted at halfback? The Queensland Reds depended heavily on Barnes in 2006. They looked threatening in attack whenever Barnes was on the field and directing play, but they ran around like headless chooks whenever he left the field. Fancy that, an almost 19-year-old Berrick Barnes was the man the Queensland Reds turned to for direction and leadership. If he was able to walk into the Reds’ lineup and do that at Super Rugby level — which is considered the toughest rugby union competition in the world — then it says everything we need to know about the quality of rugby union. Face it buddy, Berrick Barnes is the best ballplayer in Australian rugby union. It’s no coincidence that he went on to dominate rugby union after playing rugby league under Wayne Bennett’s leadership. It definitely helps when you have greats like Allan Langer and Kevin Walters to turn to for guidance.

Your defence of Gregan is inane. Anyone who has played rugby union knows that a scrumhalf’s main role is to get clean position to his flyhalf and outside backs because there’s very little space for them to work with. Gregan’s inability to do this made him a liability to the Wallabies’ backline whenever they needed quick ball. A scrumhalf with a poor passing game is as useless as a breakaway who isn’t fit enough and strong enough to continuously contest for possession at the ruck

I played rugby union at club level when I was 15. I wouldn’t be surprised if I happen to know more about the sport than you do. I haven’t watched union in a couple of years, but I still know how the game is played.

If you know so much about rugby union then how come you don’t seem to know that a scrumhalf’s main role is to get clean possession to his fly-half and outside backs?

If George Gregan can represent the Wallabies as a scrumhalf then there’s no reason Aaron Payne couldn’t do so: Payne has a superior kicking game, has a far better passing game, is more nimble on his feet, is fitter, has better vision and is just as solid in defence. Gregan’s career was based on one tackle he made in a 1994 Bledisloe Cup match. I cannot recall him doing anything worth mentioning afterwards.
I’d love to see you try to explain why Payne and Cameron Smith wouldn’t make it in rugby union as scrumhalves.

All of this crap you go on about rugby league players not making it in union proves you’re a hypocrite. You wrote off Barnes’ inability to become a regular for the Broncos because he was young and inexperienced, yet you overlook the fact that Tahu, Sailor and Rogers were thrusted into Super Rugby and Test match rugby union without having much time to adjust to the sport. The rugby union players who went on to make a name for themselves in rugby league did so on the back of learning their trade at club level.

You also overlook the fact that Mat Rogers played for the Australian Schoolboys representative team and, was a success for the Waratahs and Wallabies — the fact that Matthew Burke was moved to the wing so Rogers could play at fullback says everything we need to know about his superiority over rugby union’s so-called “stars”.

I notice you and your fellow friends never bring up Andrew Leeds’ career. Andrew Leeds represented the Wallabies in rugby union, but never made it past first-grade in rugby league. The bulk of his rugby league career was spent at a club that were the whipping boys of the competition. So tell, how come he never made a name for himself in rugby league? Why is it he was able to play 14 Test matches for the Wallabies, but never selected to represent City, NSW and the Kangaroos? How come he failed to make it as a centre and five-eighth when he played for the Eels?

“196,000 rugby players actually”

I sincerely doubt that number. According to the IRB, the number is 84450.

http://www.irb.com/unions/union=11000007/index.html

“None of the RL playmakers have been able to nor could play union as there are too many factors to consider. But all those instinctive RU playmakers would do well at RL.”

I guess that’s why Berrick Barnes ran back to rugby union — and straight into the squads of the Reds and — after he failed to cut it with the Broncos! Barnes failed miserably in rugby league, but went on to do quite well in rugby union!

Don’t forget our mate, Matt Giteau.

“I don’t consider myself a celebrity,” he said. “And I’ve got a great family that makes sure it stays that way. It doesn’t matter if I’m playing union for Australia, they still reckon I’m not good enough to play reserve grade in rugby league.”

Remember Wally Lewis? He represented the Australian RU schoolboys. He was a rugby league junior. The only reason he played rugby union at his school was because it didn’t field a rugby league team.

The ‘heartland’ of rugby union is far from being ‘on the mend’. Other than the Reds’ good start to the season, there is little for the QRU to cheer about. Everything the author said about the ‘heartland’ is speculative.

“Um Realist you cant actually be serious. are you trying to be funny or did you bump your head and do a tummy shame! how can you say South Africa have never produced a wally lewis Andrew Johns, Allan Langer, Johnathon Thurston or Sam Tomkins and, are unlikely to do so until they embrace the superior ball-playing gameplay that is used in rugby league. um some guys i can quickly think of since 1995 and are heroes, joel stransky, henrey honnibal, naas botha, jannie de beer. and we dont have the ball playing abilities!? is that why JP is ripping it up in league, a game he has never played in his entire life and scored a try with his first touch of the ball for the roosters. you actually dont deserve any time realist your such a boob”

SA,

Do you even know the definition of ‘ball-player’ and ‘ball-skills’? I don’t you do, because if you did then you’d know that the player you’referring to, JP du Plessis, is a ball-running centre!

The fly-halves you mentioned were able to kick the ball long, but they didn’t have the ball-skills and short-kicking game like Langer, Thurston, Lewis, Tomkins, Johns, etc. Two of them are known for their drop-kicking skills. I cannot remember anything else about them that stood out.

I suppose it’s hard for a rugby union fanatic to understand the difference between ‘ball-running’ and ‘ball-playing’. The latter rarely occurs in rugby union.

PS. Only a ‘boob’ doesn’t know the definition between “your” and “you’re”.

“Dan Carter, Matt Giteau, Mark Ella, Stephen Larkham, Carlos Spencer….do i need to continue”

It’s silly to quote Australian/New Zealand rugby union playmakers after I said they’ve been influenced by rugby league! Did you not see my point about this?

You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think that rugby union players in Australia and New Zealand haven’t been influenced by rugby league.

“Heck, Wally Lewis was an Australian RU schoolboy.”

Only because the high school he attended did not field a rugby league team. He was a rugby leauge junior prior to that and, went on to play rugby league afterwards. The fact he represented Australia’s RU schoolboys team despite having no history in the game strengthens my argument.

If I recall correctly, Giteau and/or his family said he wouldn’t be able to cut it in the NRL.

“And dummy half? What is skillful about that – standing behind a man playing the ball and passing it unimpeded.

Imagine Danny Buderus or Cameron Smith as a halfback in RU with opposition forwards competing for the ball….puhlease. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.”

LOL

Have you ever seen the poor skills of most rugby union scrumhalves? One of the so-called “greats”, George Gregon (sp?), was so unskilled that he routinely passed the ball behind the intended ball receiver — what sort of a dunce is either too unskilled or too stupid to pass the ball in front of the player so it lands in their bread-basket? The Wallabies’ backs routinely lost momentum because the ill-directed passes prevented them from running onto the ball.

Cameron Smith would run circles around rugby union players. He’d exploit the soft, unfit rugby union forwards and use his ball-playing skill to set up linebreaks for the players outside of him.

You don’t know what’s skillful about a dummyhalf? They need to have great vision, great ball-skills and a good kicking game. They need to have the ability to spot deficiencies in the defensive line because their job is to get the ball to the players who can exploit them and, they need to have the fitness, speed and ball-skills to do it themselves when they are on their own. Players like Aaron Payne are infinitely more talented than anyone that has ever played scrumhalf in rugby union. A lot of dummyhalves are capable of playing standoff and halfback.

For the record Ronny, I have played rugby union. I found it to be the easiest football code to play.

Citing a few exceptions to the general rule doesn’t make it untrue.

The countries you listed weren’t outposts of the British Empire, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t influenced by it. Rugby union was accepted by the British establishment and, because of this, given the wealth and the opportunity to spread to the countries it associated with for trade. The poorer rugby league commmunities in the north of England didn’t have the wealth and status that was reqiured to spread their game throughout the world — the only reason the game made its way to Australia and New Zealand is because the New Zealand rugby team that toured England during the early 1900’s took it with them.

“Rugby in Italy goes back around a century, and it has been established that British communities brought rugby to Genoa between 1890 and 1895, with other confirmations of games in Italy around 1909.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union_in_Italy#History

“Rugby football was introduced into France by the British in the early 1870s.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union_in_France#History

“British colonists helped spread the game through the Eastern Cape, Natal and along the gold and diamond routes to Kimberley and Johannesburg. British troops would also play a key role in spreading the game throughout the country.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union_in_South_Africa#History

The French exported the game to the Romanians, though that wouldn’t have happened if the British hadn’t have introduced it to the French.

The ARU made a $300,000 loss in 2009.

The NZRL is now in the black and, new rugby league competitions have started up across New Zealand’s south island.

Australia has well under 100,000 rugby union players. I wouldn’t be surprised if the true number was less than 50,000.

I find it hard to believe that more people are playing rugby union than ever before. If by “playing” you mean “participating”, then maybe, but that’s not he same as playing for a club. All it means is more kids than ever are involving themselves in a few coaching clinics that are held at schools. Few of the participants go on to play the game competitively. Most of them probably end up saying that “union sucks” after they attend the clinics — that was the general concensus when I was a lad.

Siva Samoa,

Thanks for proving that you don’t know anything about the history of your code! If weren’t anything other than a one-eyed fan than you’d know that rugby union’s larger international spread is derived from privilege and opportunity: rugby union was spread across the British Empire during the late 19th and early 20th centuries by the British military. Rugby league was never in the position to do this because it didn’t become a military sport until the 1990’s. Rugby union was introduced to Argentina by the many British subjects that migrated there during the late 19th century.

Now please, get your facts straight before you make such stupid comments!

Siva Samoa and Dave,

Not a single rugby union player — except for the ones who have been influenced by rugby league and/or have a rugby league background — have the ball-skills and vision that’s required to play in the NRL as a stand-off or halfback or dummyhalf. The skill level of the flyhalves and scrumhalves in rugby union is about 30 years behind rugby league’s stand-offs, halfbacks and dummyhalves.

Half the reason Australia is able to compete in rugby union — despite the fact it’s not far away from being a minority sport — is because the skill of its flyhalves are heavily influenced by rugby league. Nations like South Africa tend to possess hopeless, unskilled flyhalves who cannot do anything other than kick the ball long and kick at goal because they’ve never been influenced by rugby league. South Africa has never produced a Wally Lewis, Andrew Johns, Allan Langer, Johnathon Thurston or Sam Tomkins and, are unlikely to do so until they embrace the superior ball-playing gameplay that is used in rugby league. They might produce a few quality ball-running wingers/centres who have a good step on them — as they’ve always done — but they’ll never have the ball-playing ability that you’ll see from rugby league’s best ball-players.

“Since his return he has turned around the ARU’s finances placing it back into the black.”

The ARU may no longer be in debt, but it’s most definitely not making any money. If you don’t believe me, then look at the following:

“Rugby and its supporters in Australia are in no position to throw stones at rugby league because there is no doubt the 15-a-side code is struggling at present, what with the Queensland Rugby Union effectively in the hands of an administrator – the ARU – which itself will announce a loss of just under $300,000 at its annual general meeting on April 15.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/warning-to-league-unions-on-its-way-back/story-e6frg7t6-1225846183574

“The opportunity to perform on the world stage against the world’s best athlete’s in front of many, many millions of people in two of the world’s largest sporting events would be a hell a drawcard for potential athletes.”

If that’s the case then how come the ARU has struggled to hold onto its juniors since 1987? Very few rugby league juniors have choosen rugby union over the NSWRL/ARL/NRL The fact they haven’t gravitated towards rugby union suggests the RWC isn’t the drawcard that you wish it was.

Good idea Doyles.

keeper11,

Comments like the one you just left have the potential to turn rugby league fans away from soccer.

Papua New Guinea is a rugby league nation. It doesn’t give a stuff about rugby union.

“Not what I said Realist, I said ‘outside QL and Aus’”

Which is even more embarrassing!

“There’s nothing about NRL that makes it inherently more marketable than Sevens, it’s simply a case of Rugby League being vastly more popular than Sevens in Australia.

There are plenty of marketable sports in the world that don’t follow a 80-90 minute model — golf, tennis, cricket, etc. If Sevens grows in profile, it’s *possible* that the Australia leg of the tour could grow along the lines of the Australian Tennis Open or Melbourne Grand Prix. Will it ever challenge the NRL in Australia? Probably not. Could it be bigger than league worldwide? Possibly, but it’s not a major professional sport at present.”

You just don’t get it, do you?

A rugby league match is beneficial to the commercial television networks because its structure allows time for advertisements to be shown. A rugby sevens match has very little to offer the commercial television networks because it doesn’t offer them enough time to screen advertisements: the halves are only 7 minutes long and the half-time break lasts for no more than 1 minute. It’s why rugby sevens matches are bundled together and and played/screened consecutively. The only way a network could screen a heap of advertisements during a rugby sevens match is if they show it on delay. The problem with doing this is it’ll lead to less people viewing it, as it’s well known to the networks that people are more likely to watch sport when it is aired live. Rugby league can be aired live because its structure allows for many advertisements to be screened during a) stoppages of play and b) half-time.

The other sports you mentioned are beneficial to the commercial television networks because they allow time for advertisements to be screened.

Rugby sevens might appeal to the pay television sector and, could be taken up by the free-to-air networks as a filler program, but that’s it. The revenue that’s available from these outlets is limited.

“They are directed at you and your tag team partner pal Rod. But you chose to be a sloth and ignore them, then what can I do? Sloopy and unprofessional eh? I’m a city corporate lawyer. Not been struck off yet.”

Let me get this straight, you failed to cite the source of the information you gave me, yet you’re accusing me of being slothful? Ha!

You can deny it all you like if it makes you feel better, but the fact remains that your responses to me contained a list of unsubstantiated figures. The figures you provided might be correct, but their worth is dependent upon their source. How can a person who hasn’t come across the figures before supposed to know that they are legitimate? The answer is they cannot know for sure that your figures are legitimate, at least not until they see the source.Being a lawyer, you should be well aware of this.

Rod,

You’re an asset to our sport.

“Nobody knows who the Bronco’s are outside of QL”

LOL

I guess that’s why the Broncos are hated by so many New South Welshman!