2011 a bumper year for AFL International Cup

hmmmm Redb, Essendon's last flag was 2000 vs North 1999........not much difference,......both still last century!!!! (technically)

When a book describes more social elements around a game rather than the tactical to and fro and the rules themselves - - then, correct - - it describes more the notion of playing 'football',......as most folk would've experience in some way at which ever school they might have attended or village in which they lived.....and was generally trotted out at least once a year on Queens Birthday as part of the celebrations of the day. There's no conflict there. re a 'simpletons' version of Rugby......clearly not so - - Rugby was not the ONLY form of football considered, nor available to consider. the year 1858 is regarded the first 'season of football' in Melbourne.....I gather, although I don't entirely agree with it or that one particular match of 1858 (as there were others) being singled out. However, if you celebrate the start of a march as well as it's culmination......then I see where they're coming from. I still don't overly agree with using 1858 though in the sense that it was. Anyway - - it's been illustrated that the committee of 4 that met to sort out a set of rules included Wills and 3 others (none from Rugby school), and that they had with them the rules of Eton, Harrow and Winchester as well as Rugby to consider. What you need to do is stop being so 'Rugby-centric', and see the other references here. You need to remember that Rugby was still just a single schools game at this point. Old Rugbians did not make up the majority of the community. True though that the game of Rugby was far greater an influence than Marn Grook for example......although.....if we go back to Wills' childhood,....then perhaps the game of Marn Grook influenced his ready disposition for Rugby Football and football in general..........who knows.

btw - of interest - from the Courier, Hobart - Oct 2, 1858 An immense number of persons flocked into Biarritz on a recent Sunday to witness a grand match of football by five French players against five Spanish Basques. The victory, which was very warmly disputed, remained with the French. The sum contended for was 2000Í. a side. The manner in which the game is played differs altogether from that seen in England, the players stationing themselves in a wide open piece of ground marked with lines, over which the ball must be struck by each party alternately, until one fails, which has the effect of putting out, as the technical expression is, the player who was delivering the ball.Fix this text When all at one side are out the other players come m, and whatever side first reaches the number of points agreed on wins. The game is generally played in rubbers two out of three, or three out of five. This type of football sounds like a football-volleyball mix. 'football' games of all types.......not solely an English notion. Football in France was certainly not non-existant........but try to google anything about this form of French or Basque football and it's all been hijacked by 'association football'.............annoying really.

re the influence of Tom Wills.....for he was the main agitator on behalf of the School of Rugby rules - note from the July review of the rules the absence of his name : Argus Sat July 2 1859 MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB. The Committee of tho M. F. C. met yesterday afternoon at the Parade Hotel, to reconsider the rules of the club. Mr. Bruce occupied the chair. RULE III. Proposed by Mr. SMITH, seconded by Mr. THOMPSON, and carried, that the following be substituted for the existing Rule 3 : " A goal must be kicked fairly between the posts without touching either of them, or any portion of the person of one of the opposite side. In case of the ball being forced between the goal- posts in a scrimmage, a goal shall be awarded." RULE VII. Moved by Mr. THOMPSON, seconded by Mr, HAMMERSLEY, and carried : "Tripping, holding, and hacking are strictly prohibited. Pushing with the hands or body is allowed when any player is in rapid motion, or in possession of the ball, except in the case pro- vided for in Rule VI." RULE VIII. Moved by Mr. SMITH, seconded by Mr. HAM- MERSLEY, and carried : "The ball may at any time be taken in hand, but not carried farther than is necessary for a kick." RULE XI. (Additional.) Proposed by Mr. THOMPSON, seconded by Mr. BUTTERWORTH, and carried : " In case of deliberate infringement of any of the above rules by either side, the captain of the opposite side may claim that any one of his party may have a free kick from the place where the breach of rule was made ; the two captains in all cases, save where umpires are appointed, to be the sole judges of infringements." The game was starting to live and breath, from mid May to early July, just over a month - the fine tuning was beginning to occur and this more than anything clearly indicates the manner in which it was desired for the game to be played.

btw - from the week earlier : Argus Mon 9 May 1859 Now that the cricket season has been brought to a close, football is fast usurping its place, and several clubs have already commenced playing. The South Yarra were to have had a practice match on Saturday, and the ranks of the Mel- boume Football Club are assuming respectable proportions, owing, probably, to its being no longer confined to members of the Melbourne Cricket Club. The different schools are also sounding the note of preparation, and many in- teresting matches are spoken of as already arranged. No one knows what rules these matches were played by........most likely, based on handshake arrangements at the outset, and most likely some form of compromise based on merging known rules of the various village/school games of the leading participants. Even with a common agreed upon set of 10 or 12 rules - - there were going to be many shades of grey in the rules. With no documented agreed upon starting point.....who knows. What we do know is that school masters and publicans and cricketers alike had influence and came from a variety of backgrounds, and we do know that at the committee to meeting to write the first rules - that published copies of the rules of Rugby, Eton, Harrow and Winchester were brought with, let alone any other resources that may have been available but not referred to in the documents of history.

Billo - Do you understand that at the time, the late 1850s, that the book 'Tom Browns School Days' was like the Harry Potter of the day.....and that book was set in the school of Rugby and described elements of 'football'. This helped drive the 'idea' of playing football. Not that it was a foreign notion before hand. It simply helped popularise at this time the idea and helped galvanise thoughts into action. So - in this respect, the game of Rugby from the school as depicted in the most popular novel of the day was a very major influence. The 'obvious influence' is seen in my next post, which illustrates more illustrates the practical failings of attempting to introduce the school of rugby rules (whether wholely or in part).

btw -jump forward to May 1859 and the rules will be written this coming Tuesday..... Argus – Monday 16 May 1859 The football campaign opened on Saturday in the Richmond Paddock with a game played be- tween sides chosen by Messrs Smith and Bryant. It was intended that the match should be con- fined to members of the Melbourne Football Club, but in consequence of the small number of players present during the early portion of the afternoon, the captains departed from their ori-ginal intention to a certain extent. Two goals were obtained by Bryant's side, the first owing to a misapprehension on the part of one of the opposition players, and the second by force of numbers. Some annoyance was experienced from the occasional interference of persons not in the game, and a general disposition mani-fested by the bystanders to lounge about inside the bounds. To obviate the recur- rence of this inconvenience, it was proposed at a meeting of members subsequently held, to make application to the Ground Committee of the Melbourne Cricket Club, for the use of the ground on Wednesday and Saturday afternoons. At the same meeting, a secretary, treasurer, and committee of five were appointed to conduct the affairs of the club, in which about 60 gentlemen have already enrolled themselves. The com- mittee will meet on Tuesday afternoon, to draw up a code of rules. This proceeding is the more necessary as exceptions were taken last year to some of the Rugby regulations, which even a perusal of "Tom Brown's School Days" has not made altogether palatable to other than old Rugbians. This makes it clear that the game(s) of 1858 had attempted to employ AT LEAST SOME of the known Rugby regulations. And that they were not deemed acceptable, and the need was to draw up an acceptable code of rules. And even the journalist here backs up in effect my previous assertion that the 'idea' or 'notion' of football as described in Tom Browns School Days was well removed from the actual desirable practice.........especially amongst grown men rather than school boys under school masters.

This is where some folk from the Penal coloney states and cities of Australia........especially Sydney - - have a different view of that pre-federation era. Sydney was very much a colonial outpost, with the main administration of the colonies, and in the main a very heavy accent upon imperial activity around the convicts and their keepers. Melbourne was vastly different. The 'English' grip was not so tight. First and foremost it's settlement was in some respects illegal. It's initial existance was as a free settlement and it's rapid fire growth was as a super wealthy hub to some of the worlds richest gold rush activity that drew settlers and fortune seekers from around the world. To ingore that which influenced Melbourne and Victoria and that it was NOT entirely English is to do an injustice,.......and this MUST include the indigenous human population of the land. And after all - - were it (the Victorian game) merely an 'English' game, then, the good folk of Sydney would have had no issues with it - alas, from the outset it was clear that the game would better be called 'Scandanavian Football' than be called 'Victorian Football' to appeal to the folk of Sydney.......marketing 101 sadly had not yet been offered. Anyway - This is why it is annoying that AFL fans are accussed of using Mr.Wills rather selectively to suggest an indigenous link - - - whilst Rugby folk attempt to give the impression that Wills alone was responsible for the game and it's rules evolution. Or to ignore that the Scotch vs Grammar match had 2 and 'umpires' and NOT just Mr.Wills. Too narrow a vision is not helpful at all. btw - Argus Mon Aug 16 1858 FOOTBALL.-The match at football between the Church of England and Scotch Schools, which was to have been completed in the Rich- mond Park 'on Saturday afternoon, remains undecided, as the members of the Church of England School did not appear upon the ground. An Impromptu game was, however, organised among several members of the Mel- bourne Cricket Club and others who hap- pened to be present, and was maintained with immense spirit for several hours. Foot ball seems to be coming into fashion in Melbourne, and as it is a most manly and amusing game we hope that it may continue to grow in favor until it becomes as popular as cricket. To lookers-on a well-contested football match is as interesting a sight as can be conceived, the chances, changes, and ludicrous contretemps are so frequent, and the whole affair so animated and inspiriting. Let those who fancy there is little-in the game, read the account of one of the Rugby matches which is detailed in that most read able work, " Tom Brown's School-days," and they will speedily alter their opinion. Illustrates that 'notion' or 'idea' of playing football was more based upon the ideal from a book (and there was not a great deal of rules of the game detail in TB's school days). The actual reality of the games was rather more removed.

Middie - North has 10 years of dust. Collingwood have accumulated 20 years worth!!!!!!