A telling weekend for crowds across Australia

Firstly. DON"T CALL US PORT POWER!! We're Port Adelaide. Or the Power. Heck even Port for short. You wouldn't call them North Kangaroos, or St. Saints, or West Eagles. So don't call us Port Power. There is and always will be a place for Port Adelaide in the SANFL. But the problems with the club are due to SA supporters spite with the AFL. We love our footy, but the AFL bosses are ruining the game, and we don't like that so we go back to the SANFL which is now played much better than AFL. Also Port Adelaide is ripped off by the SANFL. You forget we make a lot of money, but the SANFL takes most of it due to bad stadium deal. So the handouts, are basically our money that we're are getting back. Port Adelaide also need to be able to move to Adelaide Oval as soon as next year so we can grow our attendences, and also must be given our own licence instead of SANFL owning it because they're only interest is themselves, not the Port Adelaide Football Club. Now onto NRL. I am becoming less and less interested in AFL, for some reasons outlined above, but more and more interested in rugby league. I was at the game at Adelaide Oval, and was really impressed with that crowd. Some may say it was just the novelty factor, but i do think the NRL really need to look at expansion and include Adelaide. We may be an AFL state, but we also love sport in general, and i think 10,000 each week if we had our own team is not unachievable. And that figure would be on par with many Sydney clubs, so what would be the problem. The NRL should look at introducing at least 3 games a year into Adelaide (Perth too probably), and allowing crowds to build and interest in the game to build. I have no doubt Adelaide would take to their own team, plus many interstaters who love NRL would also turn out just to see the sport they love. I picked the Gold Coast Titans as my team and while i rmeain committed to them, if an Adelaide team were to eventuate, they would have my support.

And unfortunately for all the soccer/rugby league cynics, AFL attendances & membership are heading for another record this year.

Nothing new, more dreams.

its not an exclusive RL thread, sounds to me that Jeff is losing ground.

So the main corollary of all these fantastic AFL crowds that can barely fit in the grounds down south is that the only way is down for AFL crowds. Also as far as expansion 70-80,000 crowds sets the bar very high for new teams like GWS, GC, Canberra or whatever. These teams will never get within 60,000 of those numbers even with the countless KHunt and Izzy fans attending. What is the cost of running an AFL side? 10 mil at least. So that's about 20 mil a year the AFL will be bleeding for this pretense of expansion. The only way for AFL to expand is really to export some more of these Collingwood and Carlton fans northward which has really been its main stategy thus far, a sort of zero sum game. NRL from its piddly crowd base has a ton of room to improve, especially with more dollars from an improved TV deal that enables it to staunch the bleeding of its stars to RU, the Northern Hemisphere and now even AFL. There are viable expansion targets in NZ, WA and QLD and the cost base of an NRL club is much lower than that of the AFL billionaires so a crowd of 10,000 is way more viable for Perth than it is for GWS. Expansion into NZ can improve Kiwi RL and offer another SOO, Bledisloe type rivalry. Wow the sky is the limit and we haven't even touched on the massive future growth of Football and RU in Vic. Then what will we do with all those empty stadiums down south? We could stage a soccer WC there maybe.

Too late mate, I'm already headed for 70 and was told "If ya ain't grown up by 65, you don't have too. so you guys are the only fun I have left. and I gues it was me on an AFL thread -- How sad!!. enjoy life mate -- its too good to waste. -- I guess I better bug off back to my NRL site. sorry if I caused you to traumatise about the size of anything.

Free country, anyways this thead is about crowds across several sports, grow up. Choice is good, you have a choice not to post. BTW i did not even realise that this is a RL thread.

REDB, English RL fans do not sing swing low sweet chariot, they hate that song, it's a Union song, and that game had 10,000 from the original Barmy Army come out, not a bunch of coal miners. The Barmy Army was first used in RL way before cricket and R Union as RL used to get plenty of poms travelling out here to follow the tours. The Crowd at Princes Park Melbourne was 31,005.

No one is doubting that the AFL are pulling huge crowds. what most are saying is that there is now more choice and with choice comes competition for the peoples hard earned cash. But all I hear from you AFL guys is : " We get bigger crowds than youz NNYYyyaaa!!!." Very petty ..... I just don't care, I get the same pleasure standing on a smaller ground amongst 13.000 fans who are just as passionate about NRL as you are about the size of your crowds. . I want to read about my chosen sport on this forum, can you guys Please do me a favour and bug off back to the AFL blogs and compare the size of everything you hold dear to you whilst you are there..

Interesting post and perspective, not being a stats man of great note the only thing i can state is that these things can only really be answered at the end of the year when all info is in. Melbourne average crowds are down at the moment but things like this may make a difference, surely Collingwood who's next seven games are at the G will bring up the average somewhat for EX...... Rd 16: St Kilda at the MCG - should be a tough battle. At least 65k. (Saturday afternoon game). Rd 17: Richmond at the MCG - The Tigers are firing, time for the rivalry to be ignited. 85k at least. (Saturday afternoon game). Rd 18: Carlton at the MCG - If Carlton find form, 80k. If they continue as is, 60k. (Saturday afternoon game ) Rd 19: Geelong at the MCG - Hawthorn/Geelong have pulled 65 - 70k lately. Would expect Collingwood/Geelong to hit 90k (Saturday night game). Rd 20: Essendon at the MCG - Another great rivalry match, Bombers not quite up to scratch, still get 60-65k. (Friday night game). Rd 21: Adelaide at the MCG - Well...............Collingwood will drag 45k through themselves. (Saturday afternoon game). 22: Hawthorn at the MCG - On current form and last game of the year, 65-70k. (could be, round not finalised yet. Saturday afternoon game). This would be last year the AFL can realistically be expected to break attendance records on club averages, next year the GC will drag down averages, but possibly the year aggregate will rise. Lucky for WA that the Dockers are doing OK, because the Eagles are pathetic.

Each sport has its merits and there is room for each in every State. to say that the kids coming through school now will take to AFL, Soccer or RL is highly presumptuous. I am a RL desperate, but I do not go on door knocks trying to convert the Masses, I am however, open minded enough to see that Schools in our area of Melbourne are leaning more to Soccer, with AFL and Rugby League being offered as 'side sports'. If the rest of Melbourne follows this mode of schooling, Soccer will eventually gain ground on AFL. I don't believe that Rugby League will ever be a sport that attracts 50.000 to its games, what I do know is that there are many people like myself who wouldn't spend the money to watch either AFL or Soccer. I am sickened when I see the teams run on the field and start pulling each others arms and shirt before the kick off whistle is blown! Pansy stuff!!!. I also bring to everyone's attention that The AFL have become VERY GReedy, My daughter pays nearly twice the entrance fee to watch Geelong than I pay to watch the Storm. In these days of financial hardships, how long will people be able to meet the ever increasing costs of taking their families to this sport.?. or any sport ???. I won't even mention Cricket, that sport is dying very fast! OH and I must mention that this is without david in charge. hehehe.

Kovana - the hits are bigger in League than in Union.

Average H&A Attendances By State (since 1982) Year VIC NSW WA QLD SA TAS ACT NT 2010 41959 30091 35952 31616 29596 16234 14308 8848 2009 43508 30505 34761 25612 32393 17402 9927 11306 2008 43973 31691 36765 23923 32496 17528 12494 11373 2007 42118 35632 39328 24933 35466 17403 12892 11449 Source: http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html#05 This is the real picture of the AFL over the last 3 years and 2010 - shows decrease in VIC/WA/SA the strongest states, Decrease in NSW and the novelty seems to have waned in Tas/NT. Looking good for ACT (likely more swans games and no more North Melbourne) and huge jump in Qld (likely to Voss + Fevola/Brown pariing - now they have failed will be interesting to see fallout). In fairness QLD has been in a slow upward increase before this. One thing with QLD is they do tend to support other sports even the Roar (prior to GCU, leave them out of it) would get 15k crowd averages and $30k for finals - until they stuffed it all up. Shows if marketed correctly there is room to grow in QLD. For NSW I think the AFL is beating a dead horse. This shows the trend that the AFL has peaked crowd wise in its key markets hence the need (not want) to expand into NSW + Queensland. Everyone forgets the VFL (most clubs) were dead and buried in the late 1980's early 1990's but it was expansion and huge licence fees that saved it from new clubs in AFL states. The key point is that the current new clubs will only bleed the coffers more unlike the early exapnsion which was already in established AFL states - this is why they need the TV deal to be higher to keep everything going. Also shows the 2 edge sword of expansion - more teams mean less are winning and likely to win, standrd drops therefore less interest less crowds - SA proves the point when they do not do well the faitweather fan finds something else to do. In NSW the average after Grand Final year was $36,153 where has 20% of the crowd gone? Indicates not building the loyal support that occured in Melbourne. Interesting times for the AFL as it suffers from its biggeset disadvantage - Big Fish in Small Pond. NRL Home & Away Year Gm Total Ave. 2010 128 2063567 16122 2009 192 3084481 16065 2008 192 2993469 15591 2007 192 3024040 15750 2006 180 2808055 15600 2005 180 2964288 16468 Sorry could not get the state breakdown but NRL also shows like AFL that may have peaked crowd wise. Not sure where it goes for growth. In SA and WA on one really cares for this sport (I am from Adelaide) and once the Novelty wanes no one will go - same probolem as AFL maybe it has peaked and is a Big Fish in another Small Pond. The question is who can make the pond bigger? Just thought would throw this in there.

Hate to shock you JVGO, but international union, league and soccer has been been played in Melbourne for sometime. For example: 1992 - Aust v GB in rugby league test at Optus Oval, 7,000 travelling British coal miners singing :"swing low sweet chariot" in the rain - the Poms won. ( I was at this game) Mid 1990s - Bledisloe Cups 1990's - Soccer, Aust v Iran. its nothing new.

Yes, scrums, rucks and mauls are hardly physical in RU.... I would love to see how a RL scrum would hold up against a RU SCRUM....

Corey, agree, RL has the biggest physical contact of any code (maybe NFL gives it a run), its a key differentiator.

What bubble should I get in instead Redb? Yours? I have to admit that I have only been to the MCG once for a Swans and Hawthorn game and it was decidedly underwhelming, but I was probably expecting too much due to all the hyperbole I have heard over the years. I live in the US and I would say all the sports over here have a better atmosphere. The Oakland Raiders are particularly crazy, but even the SF Giants baseball is superior atmospherewise. GS Warriors fans are considered among the best in the NBA also.

Agreed.. "RL is the greatest game.. Ever... " I dont know why anyone would state such things....

I remember Sheedy say 'we dont want rugby league players' ;)

he did mention the Hawks v Geelong game, but dismissed it.