A Geelong dynasty or just a dominant team?

By James / Roar Rookie

Norm Smith Medallist, Paul Chapman of Geelong, celebrates after winning the 2009 Toyota AFL Grand Final between the St Kilda Saints and the Geelong Cats at the MCG. The Slattery Media Group

The current debate about whether the current Geelong Cats have been as dominant as the early 2000s Brisbane Lions team that won three Grand Finals in row has sent me to the stats room to draw a comparison.

Is it fair to compare when they played during such different eras. And YES they are different when you consider how the game has evolved and changed through interchange use, contested footy and ratio of handballs.

The Dallas Cowboys of the ’90s were hailed as a dynasty during the Emmitt Smith, Aikman and Irvin era. So it got me thinking, is there a difference to being a dominant team to being a dynasty? I think there is.

Freedictionary.com states that a dynasty is: A family or group that maintains power for several generations.

Okay, sure we’re not talking about generations but surely a dynasty requires a period of more than a year or two of success. Secondly ‘maintains power’, does this mean winning Grand Finals, making the finals or somewhere in between?

The North Melbourne Kangaroos were very dominant during the 90’s so I’ve also compared their achievements:

North Melbourne:
Finals: 5
Prelims: 8
GFs: 7 (in a row)
Premierships: 3
Top 4s: 6

Brisbane:
Finals: 6
Prelims: 5
GFs: 4 (in a row)
Premierships: 3 (in a row)
Top 4s: 5

Geelong:
Finals: 4*
Prelims: 4 (in a row)
GFs: 3 (in a row)**
Premierships: 2
Top 4s: 4

* I have not counted Geelong’s 2004 and 2005 finals campaigns as they dropped out of the eight in 2006 finishing 10th. North also made the finals in 2002 after a year out of the eight.
** Geelong is one win away from adding to their Grand Final and Premiership tally.

The Brisbane Lions won (sic) the wooden spoon in 1998. In 1999 Leigh Mathews took the reigns, leading the team to six consecutive finals campaigns playing in five Preliminary Finals including four in a row. They also made four Grand Finals in a row winning the first three.

They also finished the regular season top three, five out of the six years with a healthy 14 win four loss ratio during the finals.

North Melbourne made the finals for an impressive eight years in a row including seven consecutive preliminary finals between 1994 and 2000. During this halcyon period they made 3 Grand Finals winning two.

Their finals record was 14 wins and seven losses, however they could be excused for thinking 1997 and ’98 were years they should have won the ultimate prize however two huge injuries during the finals killed them in ’97 and abysmal kicking in the second half of the ’98 Grand Final saw them produce two goals 18 behinds and lose to sixth placed Adelaide.

Geelong who are arguably still in the midst of their halcyon era have made six finals appearances in seven years and finished the regular season top two on the ladder four years in row.

Geelong has also made four Preliminary Finals in a row and after Friday could make four Grand Finals in a row.

I guess it comes down ‘what is success?’ Is it only the ultimate success of a grand final win? I think all three teams could lay claim to having a dominant period at the top but it is still unclear who was the most dominant.

The Kangaroos were at the top for longer however the Lions managed to win three premierships, one more than North and Geelong (although the Cats are still in the running to win their third next Saturday).

Arguably neither team was as dominant as the current Geelong outfit.

If Geelong do in fact win their third cup in four years next Saturday they can probably claim to be the most dominant team of the last 20 years.

The Crowd Says:

AUTHOR

2010-09-17T23:50:15+00:00

James

Roar Rookie


David that is exactly why I didn't include the Hawks in this. And after last night Geelong can kiss boodbye a dynasty but they sure were dominant.

2010-09-17T16:32:48+00:00

David V.

Guest


In this day and age, the age of the salary cap and draft, the likelihood of dynastic domination (such as that of, for instance, Hawthorn of the 70s and 80s) has been greatly reduced. Since 2000, Brisbane and Geelong have been the only teams to have repeated their success. That itself is more than worthy of note in the context of the era we are in. Of course, in such competitions, fortune does play a good part but so is making the most of the conditions of the day. And Geelong, particularly in 2007, made the most of that particular opportunity.

AUTHOR

2010-09-16T22:47:44+00:00

James

Roar Rookie


Brian, I didn't mean to imply that North 'deserved' to win the premiership in '97. It was a checky comment to make I admit. I was merely implying that injury had crippled us and the Kangaroos were a very good chance of making 4 Grand Finals in a row. (Yes, before everyone gets huffy, alot of teams could make excuses missed opportunities.) I do understand that being able to overcome adversity and still win is what counts. I just saying that in '95 'We' miss the GF by a missed kicked that landed in Ablett Snr's hands. And in '97 'We' lost Wayne Carey (arguably the most important person to a team in the '90's) for most of the season and Corey McKernan (our 2nd most important player) in that infamous Prelim. It was after the McKernan injury that St Kilda ran away with the win. However, Brian you are correct, I was drawing a log bow. I also tend to agree that GF's are the point and at the moment Brisbane holds the dominance Cup. Let's see what happens next Saturday?

2010-09-16T14:56:08+00:00

Brian

Guest


The stats mistake is one thing but how can you say that North thought they deserve to win in 97. They finished the regular season in 7th. St Kilda finished 1st and beat them easily in the prelim! Anyways that aside dominance is about premierships Brisbane won 3 and unless Geelong match that record Brisbane are more dominant, especially when you consider their chance at a fourth was unfairly compromised by having to travel to Melbourne in 2004 for the prelim due to the MCG ground agreement.

AUTHOR

2010-09-16T08:26:32+00:00

James

Roar Rookie


Maydok, Obviously it's a mistake!!!!! When I submitted the article it was in a table and when they (The Roar) published it they mixed the numbers up. (It happens to the best of us) Later on in the article I state that the Roos made the Finals 8 times, Prelim 7 in a row, 3 GF's and 2 Premierships. I also clarified this (or so I thought) as soon as I read the article on the 2nd comment. Some people on blogs, chat rooms and social networking sites are so quick to point out typos etc as if it only happens to idiots and simpletons. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you actually believe that someone would have 3 premierships and 7 GF's in row.

2010-09-16T06:01:41+00:00

maydok

Guest


Where were you in the 90's? How can you expect to be taken seriously when you state North won 3 premierships and made 7 GF's in a row?!! FAIL!!!

2010-09-16T04:42:35+00:00

MavMan

Guest


There was/is a lot of speculation about Pav and Mundy on the west coast but isn't that the case with all newly signed GC players? Speculation and talk until it becomes a fact. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.

AUTHOR

2010-09-16T00:45:56+00:00

James

Roar Rookie


Yeah good luck Redb, As a North supporter I would love to see the Pies win the minor prem and NOT make the GF!!

2010-09-16T00:44:40+00:00

Redb

Roar Guru


No Pav and Mundy were both speculative, the mail on the others has been hardcore.

2010-09-16T00:17:58+00:00

MavMan

Guest


Pav didn't go to GC nor will Mundy and they have been linked..... Maybe Jebus will stay a little longer. -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.

2010-09-15T23:08:23+00:00

Redb

Roar Guru


I have a nagging feeling, Ablett's potential departure but might just take the edge off Geelong. I hope I'm wrong. Every player linked to the GC has now gone. Ablett could easily sign a contract this weeek to stay at Geelong and put it all to bed, in fact he could have done this before the finals or anytime this year. If I was a Cats fan I'd be very nervous. With Ablett gone, the soul of the club will be temporarily torn and potentially an acceleration to the end of their dominance. One more sleep, I can't wait to get to the G tommorow night I just hope its not the last time I see Garry Ablett Jnr in hoops.

2010-09-15T22:45:00+00:00

Justin

Roar Pro


If Geelong win then they top both NM and Brisbane for greatness. Look at their home and away record during the dominant period. It is truly dominant. I dont think Brisbane ever won the minor premiership did they? Port won it 2 or 3 times in the years Brisbane won the GF. Geelong are also doing it without salary cap concession unlike Brisbane who were well looked after in that regard.

AUTHOR

2010-09-15T22:23:47+00:00

James

Roar Rookie


The Kangaroos Stats should read Finals 8 Prelim 7 (in a row) GF's 3 Premierships 2 Top 4 6 Something must have been lost in translation??

2010-09-15T22:22:21+00:00

Mister Football

Roar Guru


Sorry, but the info on the Kangaroos looks wrong. They won two premierships in the 90s, and they DID NOT play in 7 grand finals in a row, in fact, they only played in three grand finals in total (1996, 98, 99).

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