The AFL’s Team GWS is venturing into quicksand – and the paltry 23,459 crowd at the NRL’s Roosters versus Panthers playoff last Saturday night is the proof.
A misconception exists that western Sydney is a vast untapped city waiting for sporting codes to mine. The AFL has launched GWS, the A-League’s (albeit faltering) Rovers are coming, and the ARU envisages one day a western Sydney Super franchise.
Yet the Panthers have been in western Sydney for over 40 years and look at the attendance last Saturday evening. Seemed there were 22,000 Roosters fans and the Penrith diehards made up the rest. The week before the club could only draw 16,668 to a home semi-final in Penrith.
The NSWRL added Penrith and Cronulla in 1967 to build upon Sydney’s residential urban sprawl. Roll around to 2010 and on any rational assessment, the “value” that the Panthers and Sharks bring to the NRL (compared to say what the Central Coast and other expansion opportunities offer), then the NSWRL probably made the wrong decision.
The Panthers in particular oversee the code’s largest junior participation base, but that could just as readily have continued under the Eels banner.
Compare this to Melbourne where the last expansion inside the metropolitan area was way back in 1925 via Footscray (later known as the Western Bulldogs), Hawthorn and North Melbourne. As the Melbourne suburban area spread outwards over the past 75 years, no new clubs were added to take in these new suburbs. Instead, the existing clubs continued to gain support as the city’s population grew, irrespective of where the members actually lived.
In Sydney, a comparable would have left the pre-WWII clubs of Norths, Souths, Easts, Balmain, St George, Canterbury, Newtown and Wests. This would have allowed for national expansion without necessarily culling traditional Sydney clubs.
Fast forward to 2012 and the AFL is placing a team into Sydney’s west, while in Melbourne itself there are vast swathes of residential suburbs without an AFL club that represents them. The AFL’s logic is that western Sydney can support its own AFL club and the locals will embrace this chance at identity.
But even the NRL and the Panthers are proving that western Sydney is still part of Sydney. Millions live there, but they support some other Sydney NRL club, and have not embraced their local NRL club. The Parramatta Eels and Manly-Warringah were added in 1947, but even they have generally lacklustre attendance numbers and struggle for business sponsorship.
In Melbourne, adding an AFL club to serve in name an extensive part of the expanded metropolis would equally fail to be embraced by the locals. They, and their off spring, would still give allegiance to one of the traditional Melbourne AFL clubs.
Should the NRL announce it is adding a new Melbourne club to serve some large part of the city not served in name by a current AFL club, would anyone see logic in that? Yet that it is what the AFL is doing in Sydney’s west.
Adding a team to somewhere such as the Gold Coast that sees itself as a distinct region and without representation on the national stage makes sense. The Titans are proof that can work.
Sydney though already has an AFL club to serve the city. Will GWS simply bite into the Swans support, or will GWS just be ignored as Swans fans and their children stay loyal?
Penrith and Cronulla provide ample proof that merely plonking down a new club into a supposedly unserved part of the city is no guarantee of success and profitability.
Ray
Guest
Its interesting that you say Parramatta are a club that struggle to get crowds and sponsorship. If anything Parramatta is the most supported club in Sydney. They had a terrible season and yet still managed to average 17,000 odd in a 20,000 seat stadium. So I can tell you that while the Panthers struggle to get crowds, the Eels don't. There is also this misconception that the Panthers are from Western Sydney. Western Sydney is the parramatta region and beyond. The Panthers are at least 30-45 minutes away from Parramatta, so they aren't necessarily the best reflection on the Western Sydney area. As for the GWS it is a big risk. I'm not sure why they've decided to put a team in Western Sydney, when Tasmania are calling out for AFL representation. Only time will tell but I will continue to support the swans and many western Sydneysiders will continue to not care about AFL
Republican
Guest
Another sign of this 'high risk' is that GWS are trying very hard indeed to woo Canberras Aust Footy community, as a sort of safety net and buffer to the early high risk period I guess. I still hold out hope for an eventual relocation from Western Sydney to the Nations Capital, where footy actually has an historical cultural standing, pedigree and support, albeit a far smaller demographic. Cheers
Mister Football
Roar Guru
...or the Western Bulldogs?
zach
Guest
What you say makes alot of sense, although I think for the long term national competition the AFL were bound to put a second team in Sydney, and if you are going to do that then why not go to Western Sydney. What other part of Sydney would you put a second Sydney team? What could happen in the future is a merger between the new team and a faltering Melbourne team as per the Bears with Fitzroy. That would then create space for a Tassie team to enter the comp. The Brisbane Lions merger increased the club's supporter base, preserved Fitzroy's history and delivered on field success which helped the Lions become an institution in Brisbane. Sorry to the North supporters, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who has looked in the crystal ball and seen the Western Sydney Kangaroos.
JF
Guest
Just don't try and televise their games, that's when the stopping will occur.
Anthony
Guest
23,459 is an average Sydney NRL finals crowd over the past few years. Paramatta got an exceptional crowd last year, as will StGI this w/e. NRL crowds will always pale by comparison to AFL - so expect GWS to equal Penrith's crowds within 2 years.
Redb
Roar Guru
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think GC have ticked every box to date. How many expansion clubs in a non heartland area have signed up 10,000 foundation members before they've kicked a ball in anger? There is a long way to go, but people were telling us this is rugby league only area. 10,000 foundation members. Australian football may not be the dominant code in Sth QLD but the game has considerable support.
Redb
Roar Guru
who cares, this is about GWS.
Mister Football
Roar Guru
Western Sydney (plus Canberra) has triple the people of Auckland, and what's more, some of the people actually know about Australian Football. The ACT4GWS campaign is already at around 3,400 pledges. Not huge, but not bad considering the team will be located 3 hours away. I'd expect Sydney based members (and other long distance members) to take that number up to at least 8,000, and average home crowds first season at around 12,000, no problems at all (that's not big by AFL standards, but it's a start, the Swans were getting around 12,000 back in 1982). Games in NZ? Now there's a thought....
Chris
Guest
To use that logic - put an AFL team in Auckland. There is no AFL team there and lots of people... I'm sure it will be wildly successful. Hobart makes more sense than Western Sydney ever will - despite being 10 times smaller.
Timmuh
Guest
There is no doubt GC will start better than GWS. Its whether GC actually improve on that or not that is a huge doubt in my mind. How many of those foundation members are supporters of other clubs originally from Vic, SA or Tas who have moved to Qld and find that as neutral supporters they just don't go to enough games to justify membership again? GC will be harder than many seem to believe, in my view riskier than GWS over the long term.
mds1970
Roar Guru
The problem with Eastern Creek is that, although there is plenty of parking, public transport is non-existent. Even Blacktown Olympic Park, their training venue, although next to the railway line is a couple of kilometres from the station.
willy wilson
Guest
i still dont think playing at homebush is the right ground for them to be playing at. its a bugger of a ground to get to and park. they should be playing in the area they represent somewhere around blacktown even eastern creek raceway could be utilised. much easier to get to and plenty of parking
Mark Young
Guest
Yup it would be a terrific idea if you were selling groceries, petrol, beer or some other commodity. But this is a little different, people don't choose to follow a sporting code out of convenience, they make a decision to invest their heart and soul (and $$) into it based on a whole range of complex emotions such as their friends, their lifestyle, their parents, etc, etc etc. I think if they put a team near lots of people and no existing AFl team, who actually showed the slightest inkling of interest in the game, it would be a brilliant plan. However, the challenge for the game is that there is massive disinterest which will only be overcome by inflicting a body blow which will hurt you for the next couple of decades.
extreme13
Roar Rookie
Melbourne was getting a RL club regardless of the SL war redb, you're an AFL fan, I wouldn't expect you to know the history of RL. The then ARL had the choice of 2 Vic teams, but the war started and it was put on the back burner until Rupert dragged it forward.
Mark Young
Guest
Hiya RedB I agree, no-one in Melbourne wanted a Rugby League team, but a team was put in there anyway. They now have a small group of fans and are a massive drain on players and finance for the rest of the comp. There is a difference between expanding into areas where there is interest and a chance to grow, versus expanding to an area just because there are a lot of people there. I am not against expansion, just not stupid expansion for the sake of it. Expand into an area interested in your game. I have to disagree with you about relocated teams, the Lions and Swans have both become institutions as relocated teams. Half Assed relocations (Kangaroos, looking at you) which don't make clean breaks, are the oens that are scorned. The reason they are scorned is that the minority of vocal passionate fans the team has remaining, make such a din that they never get approved. And you are going to need to expand on the lack of strategic thinking on Tasmania. I can't see how it is a bad idea. Hear from you soon!
Redb
Roar Guru
1. Melbourne was not begging for a rugby league team in 1998 either but got one even though rugby union had a far greater presence. 2. An Independent commission ensures individual fan and club bias doesnt interfere with the ability to grow the sport. The Crawford Report basicially told the almost bankrupt VFL expand your footprint or perish. Other codes are setting up in Melbourne that are not massively popular. Relocated teams are scorned for different reasons, GWS will be the first NSW AFL start up team. Your advice on Tasmania lacks strategic thinking.
Mister Football
Guest
To put a team near where there are lots of people (and no existing AFL team) strikes me as a half-decent plan.
Mark Young
Guest
The Greater Western Sydney team playing in the inner west will eventually succeed, provided the AFL is committed in the long haul, which it certainly appears that they are. However, that doesn't make it a good idea! If you have enough $$ you could put a team anywhere and just wait it out until it becomes part of the furniture. I think the GWS will be a fiasco for the AFL and a nightmare for Melbourne fans. 1. Where are the fans going to come from? AFL lovers? Last week the AFL prelim finals rated about 50,000 in Sydney. Not great in a city of 4 million viewers Swans fans? Swans games have been under 100,000 at the game AND on tv this year, no love there. Juniors? There are more juniors playing Football then AFL, League, Union or anything and they are hardly kicking goals in crowd numbers. 2. Melbourne AFL fans. Western Sydney isn't begging for a team, the AFL is putting one in because there are lots of people there. Not AFL fans, lots of people. There is no big group of fans begging for a team to come in a satiate their demand for the game. So Melbourne AFL fans supporting their team, for the next fifteen to twenty years will know that the AFL is pouring their $$ into a team to subsidise the players salaries and making up for the tiny crowds (at least tiny in the AFL world!). Again, they only exists because there are a lot of people in the Greater West of Sydney! This would be as stupid as trying to get Rugby League into China (Yes John Ribot, dumb idea then and dumb idea now). And don't forget your talented juniors who will drift up the coast to follow the money. If the NRL was trying to do something similar, I wouldn't be yelling about how good it was going to be, I would be mightily annoyed at my code for wasting MY MONEY! If the AFL really wants to put a team into Western Sydney, they should take an exisiting struggling team and move them lock stock and barrel. Let them play one home game a year back in Melbourne and otherwise use their thousands of fans in Melbourne to sustain them through the lean decades ahead. Move the GWS franchise to Hobart who actually want a team to support and watch your game grow.
Mark Young
Guest
That is the key issue right there. Sydney is such a mother to get around, especially on a Friday night after a big week or work, that we now have NRL fans who will see one or no games live per year. Make no mistake, these are very committed fans, who buy merchandise, argue with other fans and watch every game, but when push comes to shove, for the price of one game for the family, they can get a whole month of Fox with all the entertainment for their kids, partner etc as well as all the other sport.