Expansion methods of the local football codes

How embarrassing indeed: http://www.austadiums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3266&sid=8912e482c0b65e91674e9761f3a9bb69 As I said, at least the ABS is trustworthy to a point.

Are we talking about the showgrounds? The AFL pays for a quarter of it, but the NSW Govt maintains ownership, other sports and leisure activities get a boost out of it, and the AFL generates income to maintain the infrastructure in perpetuity. I'm wondering what other Government infrastructure projects can boast a better business case?

JVGO re thinking for ourselves, 2 points: 1. This is a general sports site, with a tiny aussie rules footprint - all serious aussie rules discussion is saved for aussie rules specific sites where the people all understand what your're talking about (and I think that is probably true to a lesser extent for League discussions). 2. We went through our period of angst 20 to 30 years ago. Been there, done that - there was a time when we were convinced that the very thing your are begging for in your game was about to destroy our game - we criticised every single decision that came out of Jolimont, and did so for a solid 10 years without respite. Then one day it dawned on us (or on most of us) that absolutely every single decision that had been taken had been spot on the money. Twenty eight years on, from a position of near bankruptcy, we are a billion dollar per annum comp on the verge of a billion dollar TV deal. It's pretty hard to get too angry.

Of course thses things are all generalisations OFS, and we're entitled to be proud of whatever heritage we have but just look at the way the Southern football fans argue on this site, all spouting exactly the party line. Talk about conformist. It's like they've replaced loyalty to the queen with loyalty to their imperial expansionist majesty Andy Demetriou. The League fans seem to me far more a free thinking rabble, much more likely to question Gallop and their own codes authorities. I think also you'll find there were no Melbourne born people or Aussie Rules supporters at the Eureka stockade, I believe they were really either all NSWelsman or immigrants.

We are locked into the the absurdity of a cold war style arms race for market share, AFL expands into Sydney and Brisbane, NRL must expnd into Melbourne, soon Perth Adelaide etc. It is like the domino theory. More TV footprint, more bucks, in order to assure the security of what you already have you have to match the enemy. In the end it is like mutually assured destruction because in the end the owners of the money pot, News Limited won't allow either code to win, they believe it is better to have multiple healthy codes feeding big events that crossover to the other audiences. It's a completely pointless waste of time and resources. Both the NRL and the AFL are the best competitions in their codes in the world, further expansion likely dilutes them and makes them weaker but there is no turning back. The ridiculous thing is we will likely end up pretty much where we started, the AFL and NRL pretty evenly matched but both with National Corporatised competitions instead local geographically based leagues. The fans don't really want any of this at all,it is entirely HQ Executive driven.

JVGO - re caring for expansion or not, most don't care. Too true. Some do. For a variety of reasons. For many 'expats', expansion is pretty important to allow footy on ovals. So what?? Why do the soccer folk go on and on about the next clubs in the A-League, or the RL folk who are talking up Central Coast, or Perth, or PNG or Logan, or the RU people who are talking up the Rebels. Sheesh, they're all doing it. Must all be on the pay roll?

JVGO - the irony though, is that the Sydney-Melbourne characteristics you put forward ignore that Melbourne, as an illegal settlement also provided the 8 hour day, the home of the union movement, the first steam railway and Ballarat just up the road the Eureka stockade. Sporting wise, the MCC and MCG were surpassing Sydney cricket institutions, the first test match of (pre fed'n) Aust vs Eng held in Melbourne. re pro-British, it's interesting, as Melbourne and Sydney rivalry probably evolved more in the late 1800s where Melbourne for a time went past Sydney as the largest city in the pre-federation era, and as such, there was such an even lobbying to become nations capital that the compromise of Canberra was devised. What's interesting is the collected essays of Richard Twopenny from the time ("Town life in Australia") which compares Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide on a number of criteria. Really interesting stuff from an Englishman as a neutral observor. Anyway, if as you say the Melbournians were more 'conservative' (perhaps the cooler winters drive that, via daytime attire alone!!!), the irony is sporting wise, football wise, that the Melbournian's took the very radical and isolating step of NOT falling in line with the British games (as they established themselves later in the 19th century).

I don't know what fear you are talking about Redb or why you are bringing the DT into it. I have total respect for Melburnians who stand by their traditional culture. Melbourne culture by definition takes place in Melbourne. I have zero respect however for the corporatisation of all aspects of culture, including the corporatisation of Aussie Rules by the AFL, and hence its expansionist predatory corporate behaviour, its marketing stunts and complete disrespect and arrogance regarding Sydney culture. People like yourself who want to live their lives rah rahing every piece of empty marketing jingo put forth by an entity like the AFL are simply selling your souls. You would be much better off thinking for yourself occasionally and dealing with people as people on their merits than living your life as some sort of spokesman for Andrew Demetriou. I think that you will find that most real fans of any code don't really care about expansion at all in regard to their own code, they are pretty happy the way things are. In regards to GWS it was pointed out to me today the Sydney City Basketball has been trying for 10 years to get approval for a new 8 court facility that would be used at capacity 7 days a week and they are extremely resentful that the uselss politicians that htis state have approved a white elephan $40 million facility for the AFL simply because the AFL have the megabucks to wine and dine them at the Swans games. Redb these are the things that make NSW people angry with the both the AFL and its own politicians. Watch the vote in the next election.

With respect MLF, I think you're only partly right in what you're saying. Certainly it's probably true that many Vics perhaps cared a little less about representing their state but for players/fans from WA and SA the SOO was a much bigger deal hence large/passionate SOO crowds those states (and SOO games were more frequently hosted in WA/SA than in Vic for that reason).... I attended the first SOO game which was in 1977 at Subiaco - WA v Vic....it was a sell out crowd and WA thrashed the Vics...after decades of the then VFL pilaging the best talent from the WAFL (and SAFL) and winning all interstate clashes it was fanatsic to finally bring the WA players 'home' to make a single WA team to finally be able to stick it up the Vics....to recognise the wonderful WA talent and the superior team... it was justice... long overdue.. SA and WA teams used to love these SOO games because it was a chance to blend Victorian based players with local talent from the WAFL/SAFL which were very much stonger competitions back in pre- AFL days (as an indication of the strength of the WAFL - the WAFL premiers in '86 (Subiaco) played the VFL premiers (Hawthorn) in an game that went to the wire (I seem to recall Laurie Keene missing a easy shot in the dying minutes that would have given victory to Subiaco). Since the advent of the AFL the WAFL and SANFL are shadows of their former selves - it would now not be realistic to try to blend local talent from WAFL/SANFL into any SOO teams because the gap in satndard is too large - and far fewer people in WA & SA closely follow the local teams so they'd not know the local players that well anyway. RL copied the SOO concept from the VFL and introduced it in 1980 after it saw what a huge success it was. Initially SOO in RL was very successful but no more successful than it was in the VFL/WAFL/SAFL in the late 70s and early 80s (I think an 1989 SOO at the MCG was played in front of 90K). Had their been no expansion of the VFL into the AFL I'm sure SOO would still be huge with AFL players/fans - fans have now switched allegiances to the Eagles, Freo, Port and Crows... that's where they get their weekly fix of state pride because a core of players in these teams are generally home grown. I don't know why the same thing hasn't happend in the NRL. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_matches_in_Australian_rules_football

The Link, Firstly the AFL is not at 95% yet. For that to happen we would be talking about ten years down the track when GC & GWS are bedded in. Then you might look at Tassie, Nth QLD/NT. The NRL has a worse track record with its expansion teams. So there is no guarantee these new clubs will stick and RL contracts again.

No I listen to the sports medicos who have worked for both AFL and NRL clubs who back up what Hunt says.

JVGO, Betamax Why does the DT feed this fear? Its called protecting their product. The Syd v Melb thing is a convenient excuse. That you or anybody cannot see the hypocrisy of endorsing Melb Storm and rugby league in Melbourne and hope it grows is beyond me. Most AFL fans would never seriously beleive the AFL would ever dominate Sydney, its virtually impossible given the history and long held club loyalties. You say don't diss Sydney culture yet many NRL fans are quick to dismiss Melbourne culture and AFL is very much ingrained into our culture and I see it disrespected daily here. Code wars have served the News Ltd agenda well in Sydney becuase the NRL is the 'home' code. Note they dont play these games in Melbourne's Herald Sun becuase it does not serve them to drive resentment against the 'invader' NRL amongst the heartland AFL fans. Thus the Syd v Melb theory which so often is beleived to only come from Melbournians supposed inferority complex about Sydney is drawn upon in Sydney but not Melbourne. Surely if News Ltd like to play on the Syd v Melb thing it would work even better in Melbourne becuase we are so envious of Sydney and protective of our home code. Yet News Ltd owner of the Melb Storm protect their product by not engaging in the same games. Its plain to see.

. @matt s... . '. . . how much for those AFL rights in NZ?' . .What's that got to do with anything ?? - ok then , how much for spinnach in NZ ?????

Punter I have absolutely no doubt that this plays a significant part in attracting the female viewer to the Indig code but I don't believe this to be the 'fairer sex's' only criteria. Conversely, I know quite a few women who prefer the more compact and combative looking rugby types. These are die hard Brumby supporters I used to attend Union games with, when i was a member in their foundation years. My daughter also played Netball - up until last season and has bucked the trend in that she disliikes Soccer both as a spectator sport and a participation sport. She prefers Australian Footy to watch with no prompting from myself I may add and really enjoyed playing touch Footy at one point. Cheers

For the moment, we can believe what Hunt says. At the end of the day, he's living the dream.

I can see you MLF Redb Wookie and all the other AFL vanguard gving yourselves a big hug. But I expect we northerners will stay out of it, you guys would have to be a lot less arrogant and ignorant and a lot more respectful of our traditions before you'd earn even a handshake I'm afraid.

So you listen to Hunt.. The same Hunt that AFL fans continually stress was only purchased for his publicity value.. So now when given the script by Vlad to say how hard ,tough & great AFL is ...he says it. Wow...If Vlad told him to say the moon was purple he would....anyone would with millions in your bank account. You know when RL players went to RU ,they had press conferences where they raved how great ,& tough & wonderful it was to play RU.... Face facts Redb ..money talks.. You cant have it both ways ,either he is a marketing tool & is saying what he is told to .. Or he is the most overpriced player in AFL history,because he had very very little background in AFL.

MLF How about a handshake also to show our mutual respect between NRL & AFL fans since the majority think the code war is garbage we can both flourish it's only the minority who are hook,line, and sinker into this 'code war' and make the outrageous comments which are a bad representation of either code.