Relegation from A-League won't happen any time soon

And it remains true that Fury had a very good record for crowd-attendances when calculated as a percentage of population!

Too true Jon. We Fury supporters came from areas served by three state-league teams. I do believe that we were not ready for an A-League team when we were allowed to enter, but once we were there, we should have been given the time to get our act together. I was so pleased that all was falling into place in readiness for the 12/13 season, but FFA ran out of money before that. It seems the FFA were surprised that they ran out of money so quickly. I hope that in future FFA can do better calculations and estimations before making decisions and promises -- promises like the participation of the two Melbourne clubs in the Victorian KO Cup.

Much of interest here, and great to read the views. Yes, unfortunately, to have consolidated the ten within the next three years might even be a bit difficult, but we do need to have an aim. (I we aim for the moon, then at least we should clear the fence!) Once we can get to twelve or fourteen solidly based teams, then further expansion might be done by admitting a further four or two (to make sixteen) who could immediately be divided into two tiers of eight each, with promotion/relegation immediately. Eight is quite a good number -- three rounds with seven opponents for the premiership, plus a standard (old fashioned) top-four championship, would take up 24 weeks -- and add three more devoted to the latter stages of an FFA Cup KO comp. The FFA Cup might be down to eight clubs (mostly in the winter months) before the second tier join those eight for a round -- giving eight winners to meet the top tier in the following FFA Cup round. Just three more rounds -- Qtr-finals, Semis, and the Final -- should see an FFA Cup winner. Thus second-tier clubs are involved (if they last) in five rounds of FFA Cup, and top-tier clubs in four. I suspect that the vast majority of the FFA Cup rounds (up to about the quarter-finals) should be in winter and spring, when the A1 and A2 clubs are still pre-season, and the "other" clubs have the advantage of being match fit! (The quarter-finals, semis, and final could replace weeks 4, 8, and 12 of the "expanded A-League".) Let's aim for the moon, but keep our feet on the ground!!!!

We're still hopeful that we can get a better deal for a Fury Youth side in 12/13. The deal we'd like is to be treated equally to other sides. FFA put to Football Qld that the Fury side would have to fund not only its own travelling costs, but the travelling costs of all visiting sides. I can see why FFA might want to do that, for the imminent season, but surely we can hope for an "equal" deal for the following season? I remain a "Fury Fan Forever". (So there's not much of interest to me in Australian Soccer Football at this stage.)

I suspect that the "stadium deal" is one of the very expensive items for A-League clubs. Can anyone tell me if I'm right?

Uncle Bob, I agree we are very fragmented in the "football codes". Tell me where I am wrong below. Golf -- played nationwide, but not a national comp. Cricket -- Sheffield Shield and Ashes Tests still the pick here, though lots of fun with various versions of the Pyjama Game -- yes, a national comp (or two), but amongst state sides rather than amongst club sides, and still a bit limited in crowd-drawing appeal except for a few very special matches which are usually not between state or club sides. Tennis -- a great game, and played nationwide, but where is the national comp amongst clubs? Swimming -- again a great pastime for many, but where is the national comp amongst clubs? Netball -- Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Boy did I enjoy watching the Firebirds win! I would welcome Netball becoming "dominant" in Australia. Is it possible that Netball can ever be played in front of 50k or 100k like Aussie Rules often is? Basketball -- even more physical than Netball, but, yes, here we have another "national comp". Can we envisage a stadium which will seat 50k or 100k? (And then can we fill it?) Of the football codes, we must all be jealous of the crowds which attend AFL (at least the crowds in Melbourne). NRL gets way beyond its deserved media coverage even in Qld and NSW. Union, rightly or wrongly, is often seen as somewhat elitist, though it's a great game. Soccer Football has always had trouble drawing crowds in Oz, but even without the immense numbers of juniors playing it still has very large participation by players. Soccer Football lovers seem to prefer to play the game rather than to watch it. Now we see bits and pieces of other "football codes" from time to time: notably American Football and Gaelic Football. Yes we are extremely fragmented. So Bondy's question remains: What is the "dominant sport" in Australia (nationally)? Perhaps we should be extremely proud that we have so much available?

Daniel - Newcastle and the central coast are both in NSW

In Europe you have 100's of years of history of Football being the number one sport. Everywhere you go a city or town has their own club that has the potential of making it to the big league. There are 100's of teams per nation that wants to be in the big league. The problem is Australia is that it's not the number one sport, people are mad about AFL, NRL and Cricket instead. There is nowhere near enough popularity in Australia, we barely can support 10 teams in our big league, and some of those are about to go broke and can't get more than 2000 people to a game. We don't have football ingrained in our culture like in Europe we have to accept it and get over it. If any A-League club got relegated in Australia it would go broke and lose all it's fans and the teams replacing it will have no fans to bring into the A-League, it's just such a useless concept over here. Maybe in 50-100 years we can visit the idea? E.g If the State Leagues are attracting crowds of over 10,000 on a regular basis.

again you both are missing the point i was trying to make. Sponsorship $$$$$$ and to a lesser extent GG

rather than p/r the a-league should have 6 guest spots, and a second tier, 3 group nsl- national second league, which includes a-league junior clubs. each group gets 2 teams in the following a-league. 3 groups could include north- wa,nt,qld played in a basketball like tour arangement to save travel costs east, nsw/act south, vic,sa,tas

Interesting this topic is raised at a time when the NRL is having its SOOK (state of origin kompetition). Taken from the AFL, state of origins have a place in the minds of all Australians as we see this as an opportunity to see better quality sport. The AFL dropped SOOK after the leauge went national and the best players (Wayne Carey) were no longer eligable - whats the point of having a quality comp without the best players? When NRL grows up and develops players outside QLD and NSW they too will face the same delema. In the meantime, Australians are conditioned to regional areas putting forward their best players for representational duties. The current A-League is grown on the idea of clubs representing regions. To unscramble that egg would reduce the quality of the league.

@ Cpaaa, The Fury was based out of Townsville which is already the home of the NQ Razorbacks. I would be happy if the Pigs made the A Leauge but their supporter base would be reduced as surrounding towns have their own teams in the state league.

@ Tigranes, the FFA wont even allow the Fury to play an under 21 team this year even though it would be fully-funded by QLD Football. The FFA say it is not fair on the other teams to travel that far - this from a sport who's major sponsor is an airline. No wonder the people of North Queensland feel betrayed.

Government grants? Are you crazy? Have you not noticed what is going on in Greece, Ireland, Portgual, Spain etc? These countries have huge debts and to try and still be able to borrow money for important programs the Governments are being forced to cut health spending, education spending, public sector wages etc. And guess what - we have huge debt in this country as well. Why the hell should a sporting competition be reliant on government grants to even get going? Why should my taxpayer dollars be lost and wasted on a stupid idea like that. I would prefer interest rates not to rocket to 15% thanks very much mate just so you can have a few new plastic sporting teams to obsess over.

If you're arguing that a second tier is viable with government grants, the argument is sort of lost.

Everybody is so negetive. Australia is big enough to have another 2 teirs of football that is funded by sponsorship and government grants. The FFA would become eligble for additional government grants if the tems in tier2/3 are located in satelite cities that can help build a stronger local community e.g. Geelong, Ballarat, Coffs Harbour, Hobart, Darwin, Canberra, Wollongong, Sunshine Coast, Western NSW. the AFL, NRL and ARU can afford to create a second teir not due to finance but due to the participation at grass roots, which football can do. Things worth doing are never easy because if they where everyone would be doing it.

Not too hard to pick that one Mike - no A-League relegation for a time yet. Buy the franchise and you are very safe to stay in the top flight. Some of the world's biggest sporting competitions like US baseball, F1 and NFL don't have relegation and promotion. On the A-League model and in current format there aren't too many clubs who can afford to be in the A-League. Lets just concentrate on getting them right first, shall we.

Golf, cricket, tennis, swimming, netball, basketball are all pretty popular. The football codes are all down the list because they are so fragmented.

I think you are seriously underestimating the importance of travel and accommodation costs. The money is simply not there.

IMO i don't think Australia will have promotion / relegation system as far as the A-League is concerned in our lifetime!