Australian coach Robbie Deans answers questions at a press conference follow their Rugby World Cup loss to Ireland at Eden Park(AP Photo/Ross Land)
Martin Johnson and Robbie Deans have often cut very different figures in the world of rugby with Johnson’s playing career outshining that of Deans, yet it is the New Zealander who has a far superior coaching record.
That’s not so difficult, given England handed Johnson the job when he had no prior experience, but at times, the coaches find themselves in similiar positions.
– Both are managing former Rugby World Cup winners and their teams have each featured in three Rugby World Cup finals (although the Wallabies have the edge in finals wins).
– Both are taking teams into this year’s Rugby World Cup as winners of their respective regional competitions, the Six Nations and Tri Nations.
– Both suffered a heavy loss away from home during those tournament wins.
– Both have lost a key prop. Benn Robinson didn’t make the squad, while Andrew Sheridan left the tournament after one game.
– Both have encountered off-field incidents. Deans had O’Connor’s hangover, while Johnson got dwarfgate.
– Both have had players cited for use of the knee, Cooper escaping censure, Lawes picking up a two match ban.
– Both have seen their teams overwhelmed by a rampant Irish side this year.
– Both coaches resolutely stood by their long-term team captains before suddenly switching horses. Injury kept Steve Borthwick out of England’s tour of Australia in 2010 and Johnson never selected him again. Deans backed Elsom before making a late change to Horwill.
– Both named squads relatively short on caps, leading many to say they will be better contenders in four years time.
– Both have caused their team’s supporters to tear their hair out. Johnson seemed to have hit on a back line to provide a potent attacking threat, and more fluid game, only for his team to sputter. Deans seemed to have found a competitive pack with mongrel, only to see some old problems resurfacing.
And of course, the clincher:
– Both have Kiwi wives.
Kay Johnson and Penny Deans are patently sleeper cells, instantly activated when their husbands took the reins of All Black challengers for the tournament in the Land of the Long White Cloud.
Penny ensured her husband built his team’s campaign around New Zealand-born Quade Cooper.
Kay’s plans suffered a setback when Kiwi Riki Flutey missed out on selection but her husband was helpless when she pressed the claims of fellow-countrymen Shontayne Hape and Dylan Hartley.
Kay was surely also instrumental in unearthing Thomas Waldrom’s English grandmother, and mesmerising her husband into including a third Kiwi in his squad.
On Penny Deans’ instructions, Quade Cooper has managed to turn the New Zealand crowd into a hostile force at every Wallaby match.
Fearful of the undoubted threat Kurtley Beale would present to anyone, Cooper also contrived to get himself placed at full back in defence, where he can blunt any attacking moves and throw passes to the opposition if necessary.
Kay Johnson ordered Hartley and Hape to play poorly but they did this so well, both are now out of contention for the starting XV.
Hape tried to rectify this situation with a couple of quick tries against Romania but is in danger of blowing his cover. Hartley has promised to atone by drawing a yellow card should he take the field.
When Thomas Waldrom arrived in New Zealand, he looked very bulky, which suggests he took Kay’s advice to conceal a couple of dwarves on his person to disrupt English preparations.
One of them will likely be placed underneath Nick Easter’s mattress if there are any signs the number eight is recovering from his back problems.
It should come as no surprise that Martin Johnson and Robbie Deans are leading their teams down parallel paths with these two women pulling the strings on behalf of their countrymen.
Ben S
Roar Guru
Too much haggis? Take your Argentine dishing like a man for goodness sake. Peruse who Johnson selected in his first ever squad, and then peruse all the players he has persisted with since. In world rugby he and Gatland have been the least conservative selectors going.
Rugby Fan
Roar Guru
I just caught the BBC Wales Scrum V programme which features Kingsley Jones. He was introduced as Technical Director of the Russian team. Nikolay Nerush seems to be Head Coach, and announces the team selections. It's not clear from those titles who is really calling the shots. Even if Head Coach is nominally the top job, it might be that Jones is the de facto number one. Nerush doesn't seem to be just a figurehead, however and there's nothing wrong with that kind of arrangement. It wouldn't be a source of tension for Russia as it might be for a major nation, where press and supporters want to know who's in charge.
ScotandProud
Guest
Johnson for me is too Leicester bred. He does make good decisions like finally picking Ashton and Foden, or at least what he does well is to steadily build a team without any rash decsions, any player comes into a stable ship. But GOD Tindall, Hape, BANAHAN?, Easter, Haskell, Deacon, these are not the best players he just sees a good performance and goes back to sleep. So hape played well in Oz last year - job done. sorted. No.12 position taken care of for the next 4 years. Before that it was Jamie Noon for over two years, not to mention some other bad players there. I sympathise with his treatment of Cipriani the guy is a Carlos Tevez and more immature and less of a team player but players like Geraghty could be brought on more. They don't favour exciting players. After a world cup any coach has to throw his cards up in the air and see how they land, take risks against the next 4 years but johnson Wells Rowntree they won't let the happy accidents unfold because theyre too busy trying to win everything with risk free rugby like they did in the Leicester days forgetting that on the world stage Leicester are nothing. It depresses me. They won't win until they risk losing a few in the interest of learning fast instinctive rugby. I wish them luck but wish the welsh backs could play behind a front five like that.
Ben S
Roar Guru
Kingsley Jones and Henry Paul are coaching Russia, and Steve McDowell has been coaching Romania too.
Rugby Fan
Roar Guru
There are quite a few foreign coaches at this World Cup, including: Japan - John Kirwan (NZ) Australia - Robbie Deans (NZ) Wales - Warren Gatland (NZ) Canada - Kieran Crowley (NZ) Scotland - Andy Robinson (England) Italy - Nick Mallett (SA) Georgia - Richie Dixon (Scotland) USA - Eddie O'Sullivan (Ireland) I'm not always clear who has the final say over Russia. Nikolay Nerush is called Head Coach but you sometimes see Kingsley Jones (Wales) with that title. Tongan Isitolo Maka is coaching the country of his birth but he played for the All Blacks. John Kirwan reduced the potential number of Kiwi wives at the tournament by marrying outside his rugby roots. Fiorella Kirwan is Italian. A lot of coaching contracts ran until the World Cup so there will probably be changes at the top for lot of countries. Frenchman Jacques Brunel has been named to take over at Italy while Philippe Saint-André will replace Marc Lievremont in France. Japan's return of one draw against a target of 2 wins will put John Kirwan's tenure in question. There are a few in USA Rugby who haven't been happy with Eddie O'Sullivan while Fiji coach Samu Domoni is under fire at home. They wanted to be semi-finalists but probably won't make it out of the pool stages. Not sure what happens to Andy Robinson if Scotland don't make the quarter-finals. All will be forgiven if his team can beat England by the necessary margin. Gatland has a contract until 2015 and looks in reasonable shape. I thought Declan Kidney might go after the Cup but he signed an extension to the 2012-3 season. Perhaps he'll see how he feels in a few weeks time. Peter de Villiers and Graham Henry seem likely to move on, or be moved on after this Cup even if they win the thing. And then there are the two coaches in the title of this piece. Johnson has said he wants to stay on. It's unclear at the moment whether the shambles at the top of the RFU makes that more likely, or less likely. Deans extended his contract but others on this website will have a better idea of how cup performance will affect his position.
Ben S
Roar Guru
'all7days the failures of Johnson are so spectacular and extraordinary that to list them would be a superhuman, miserably depressing task.' So you're unable to list the failures of Johnson then? 'The best attacking wing in England James Simpson-Daniel, the Ioane equivalent, for some reason does not please Johnson' Simpson-Daniel doesn't play anything like Ioane. The comparison simply isn't apt. They're just different players. Further, he has been selected by Johnson in various EPS squads but has often been injured. Also, Banahan has very impressive in the Aviva - which you would know, as you clearly watch English rugby. Lastly, Cueto and Ashton have been two of England's best players over the past 12 months. 'the only highly skilled and mobile number 8 Luke Narraway is disliked for no obvious reason by Johnson' It's pretty obvious why Narraway hasn't been selected actually. Nick Easter plays a tight role which allows Croft, Lawes etc to roam. If Narraway plays then this isn't possible. More significantly, Narraway is not the only 'highly skilled and mobile number 8'. 'the only seriously creative fly-halves, Danny Cipriani and Shane Geraghty, the Cooper and Barnes of England' How on earth does Barnes compare to Cipriani, Geraghty or Cooper? He doesn't. He's a totally different player. Also, Geraghty has never been a regular at London Irish or Northampton. Cipriani has proven himself to be immature and unreliable, and his defence is astonishingly inept. Flood isn't creative? 'are disliked as well. It’s genuinely surreal. If you don’t follow English rugby closely and then you suddenly found out what he does, you would never believe it.' Tell us what Johnson does then. Stop hiding behind childish and bizarre phrases.
zhenry
Guest
I am sure its not important and also against the wife theme of the article but unlike Johnston, Deans is not the nationality of the side he is coaching, he may have taken out AU citizenship but not as far as I know.
Ben S
Roar Guru
Go Thelma!
Ben S
Roar Guru
Andy Goode was selected due to a lengthy injury list. Ayoola Erinle was selected due to a lengthy injury list. He only started one Test. Matt Banahan has never been a regular starter under Johnson, but his place in the EPS is justified on the fact that a) he is a developing prospect, and b) he has consistently been one of the best performers in the Aviva over the past few seasons. Tindall has continuously been selected because a) England want big men in the midfield, and b) because he is an experienced man in a very inexperienced side, and c) England has a dearth of midfield players. So that is enough to 'judge a coach for eternity'?
thesportsguy
Guest
LOL. right you are chrisT. i think he missed the point and tone of the article?
all7days
Roar Guru
Better than Moody? Foden? That's a big claim. I like him as a player, but I don't know if England should change their whole set up on the field to accommodate his frailties. I actually disagree that the Wallabies should even do that with Cooper. I think if you can't tackle then you can't play. They'd learn pretty fast after that. It's hard for me to respect a non complete player.
peterlala
Guest
KPM, love Cipriani at his best. At his best he may well be the best...in the world. But he is annoying when he seems to switch off. Then there are his off-field indulgences. Even the great Rod McQueen couldn't reign him in. Melbourne really needed him...and he went partying. That's unacceptable. Rugby Fan, great story. Perhaps some of the plethora of back-up staff could concentrate on influencing the real decision-makers, the coaches' wives.
ThelmaWrites
Guest
Hi Ben! Apparently, the neutrino has speed greater than light. Physicists are trying to fathom the implications of the finding. As they say, Move over Einstein.
kingplaymaker
Roar Guru
all7 Cipriani may miss tackles and in fact he definitely does, but look how Cooper is hidden successfully at full-back by Queensland and Australia: the same should be done with Cipriani. But Cipriani is head and shoulders above any other fly-half in talent in England and is an outstandingly creative player. Compare the performances of the Rebels before and after he was dropped. 9th or 10th and last! He was able to ignite the entire team and it collapsed without him. He's the best thing produced by English rugby in the last decade.
all7days
Roar Guru
Couldn't agree with Cipriani. Led Super rugby in missed tackles. He was terrible. Talented, but played terribly. I like Narraway's play. Not as good a Thomas the Tank engine though :) Best player in the Heineken cup almost. He's more skilled and More mobile.
kingplaymaker
Roar Guru
all7days the failures of Johnson are so spectacular and extraordinary that to list them would be a superhuman, miserably depressing task. Deans may choose the odd player you don't like, but imagine if he chose Daniel Halangahu and Tom Carter over Quade Cooper, Kurtley Beale, Digby Ioane and James O'Connor. Johnson's selections really are at that level of absurdity. However good any other coach may be they are extraordinary compared to Johnson. The best attacking wing in England James Simpson-Daniel, the Ioane equivalent, for some reason does not please Johnson and so he chooses an unbelievably talentless player such as Matt Banahan who would never make any Super team, the only highly skilled and mobile number 8 Luke Narraway is disliked for no obvious reason by Johnson, the only seriously creative fly-halves, Danny Cipriani and Shane Geraghty, the Cooper and Barnes of England, are disliked as well. It's genuinely surreal. If you don't follow English rugby closely and then you suddenly found out what he does, you would never believe it.
soapit
Guest
this site might not be too active if we all only stuck discussing to areas where we actually had true expertise mate (compared to johnsons standard)
all7days
Roar Guru
Great article by the way :)
all7days
Roar Guru
That's more like it KPM! I agree with you on Tindall. Slow and useless. He has been shown up on defence many times against the ABs if my memory is working properly... I would also say that Johnson's main issue is team discipline and their inability to play to the Ref. Their tactics seem pretty sound to me. "Play as we always have. With added counter attacking". I'm not sure I agree that he is a lot worse than Deans (Though he may not be as good). Deans has the same strange selections. (Spitting Faiinga and Cooper in the backline) His Tactics can also seem one dimensional. As shown against Ireland.
Bayxxx
Guest
Yes KPM, and Deans is the coach of a team going home after the qf's whilst Johnson will be there until the end of October.... Must be because the worlds best backline is unbeatable? -- Comment left via The Roar's iPhone app. Download The Roar's iPhone App in the App Store here.