The possibility of Europe’s biggest clubs leaving local leagues and playing in a new European league on a weekly basis – which I’m sure they’d label ‘super’ something, such is the lack of imagination in people – is gaining new momentum.
It’s also inevitable for the good of the game.
We recently saw Liverpool’s outburst – like a cranky little spoiled brat sick of sharing his toys with the poor kids – asking that TV revenue go to the big clubs because they generate the interest.
This is what they do in Spain, where Real Madrid and Barcelona take all the money and run without question. I was appalled at the statement, as I hate that Spanish model, with the end effect an inevitable two horse monopoly – a perfect manifestation of Karl Marx’s capitalistic prediction.
But then I thought, well, what’s the alternative?
Most national leagues now suffer from permanent predictability like a chronic disease anyway. And it is permanent, this is not your imagination.
This local league/capitalist mix format has simply matured now and outgrown itself.
The only thing exciting about the EPL these days is the Man City attempt at the big time. I find it interesting. Like Chelsea a few years ago, it’s due to some absurdly rich guy messiah injecting his play lunch money, and that is the only hope for interest the capitalist model as it stands has to offer.
So for more exciting things we have to wait for Bill Gates to get sick of trying to cure malaria and decide to spend his squillions on people who can kick a ball well. Otherwise, its just a big permafrost from here on in.
Alternatively, the financial plan goes bust and a Chelsea collapses, Leeds United like. That’s about the excitement you can expect.
Otherwise, get excited about whether Manchester United will come first or second until you die. Personally, as a Man United fan even, I’m struggling to do that.
Unfortunately for me, I find permanent predictability in sport very dull. Some don’t seem to mind it, but it’s all contrived and they are just pretending to find it interesting such is their lust to view sport.
Basically every national league is on a one way street to boredom-ville, that is fact, not opinion.
For hope we could wish for a communist revolution, A-League style, but that won’t happen.
We could argue about tradition and just settle for the permafrost effect – too dull.
We could place our hope in the Champions League in current format. But it’s tired, too sporadic time wise, and the good teams don’t play each other often enough in that ultimately Cup style competition format, more suited to tennis really.
In fact, the current Champions League season is a display of what Liverpool are warning against if they aren’t provided more revenue.
Madrid and Barcelona are clearly better than the rest, and this will turn to permafrost if others don’t move to compete with their insane wealth.
Most clubs basically are already just feeder clubs for the two Spanish monsters, and this needs to change somehow.
If nothing changes, European football will be as predictable as the ocean, where little fish get eaten by bigger fish, and then this shark comes along. Hmmm, what will happen next? How exciting.
The only hope of competition is to let these big clubs go, or even kick them out. Set them free. Let them play with each others Rolls Royce, and eat the others children should one get slightly poorer.
I think it’d be great to see Man United play AC Milan on a regular basis, genuine competition. Things have to evolve and it seems the obvious evolution.
But the plus is, rather than destroying local competitions, it may revitalise them.
The national leagues could adopt a sort of socialist policy of equity and enjoy a more even competition, which I’m sure the fans would like, follow and attend, while the others enjoy their European capitalistic super orgy, and let’s see what happens.
Why not? The current system is not really believable anymore.
PeterK
Guest
And treasure what you have!
PeterK
Guest
Fiul, QsAF, and FU, spare a thought then for us in NQ -- how would you feel if what you now love more than all else were to "disappear" despite your own personal best efforts! Unlike some of our small but fiercely loyal band, I remain committed to the HAL, and follow it as best I can without Pay-TV, and there are still a few of us hoping one day to be back (better than ever). I can of course (and do) follow the ex Fury players! I think it was a mistake to have admitted us when we were, and said so in writing at the time, but we're hopeful of one day being properly ready. Our biggest obstacle is the small population from which to draw our fans. (And a new obstacle is the memory of "what happened last time".) Meanwhile keep the HAL warm for us!
Lucan
Guest
How are the lower tier teams in Australia going?? No pulling power or attraction for sponsors and investors with the "closed shop" top flight being a large factor. Sponsors and investors will chase the Superleague at the detriment of the domestic leagues.
Patrick Angel
Roar Guru
Games tend to get sold on their "must watch" status as well. Not many people would pay for just EPL if the provider didn't also have the local league outside England. Plus NFL is perfect for having ads (quarters, regular stoppages in play and timeouts), whereas football doesn't advertise till halftime, when everyone is rarely watching as intently. Plus, Fox gets preferential treatment on their EPL coverage.
pete4
Guest
Not sure if anyone caught this article on TWG and this is why I think it'll happen: "In Soccernomics, it’s argued that football television rights are being grossly undersold when compared to that of the NFL, which has a far less global following" http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/vitor-sobral/blog/1077335/Super-League-debate-gathers-momentum
The Cattery
Roar Guru
Fussball Yes, I'm agreeing with you, anyone who does this severs all ties with all other governing bodies, but we have seen enough sporting examples over the past 35 years to know that if the money is there, clubs and players will do it, not all, and it won't be easy, but they can be persuaded, make no mistake.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
TC I'm just repeating what was reported by Reuters News Service this week - 14 out of the 20 EPL clubs have to agree before any changes are made to the structure or laws of the EPL. If the big 4 EPL clubs move out (not sure which are the Big 4, but that's an aside) then 10 other EPL clubs must be gracious enough to say "yes please go - we know it's bad for our business, but we feel you 4 big clubs should make more money and we should make less money". As far as I can tell, any club can leave the EPL right now - but, they will also have to leave the English FA. As far as the big players being happy to "go it on their own with other big players" .. I think every player realises he's only a game away from being kicked out of a big club. What happens when there are no other big clubs to hire him and he can't get re-registered to play in the domestic leagues?
The Cattery
Roar Guru
While Celtic and Rangers now need to go on to something bigger, if a Euro super league was formed, it's hard to see two Scottish clubs taking up 10% of the available spots, when France will be lucky to get two spots, Holland and Portugal might squeeze in for one spot each, and you'd have some very big Spanish clubs missing out altogether, and that's before we even consider the emerging leagues like the Ukraine and Russia.
The Cattery
Roar Guru
fussball I don't disagree with any of that, except to add that some of these clubs are so massive, often funded by private interests, and the players who make it to these clubs are capable of earning so much money, that the prospect of both the clubs and the players divorcing themselves completely from all other governing structures has to be viewed as a possible scenario, I wouldn't say probable, but definitely not impossible. If, by chance, the 20 wealthiest clubs in Europe (and the world) took the fight directly to FIFA, do you think FIFA has the werewithal to stare them down? I'm not so sure.
phil osopher
Roar Guru
Seems like a good list to me. But I'd like to see Celtic and Rangers in there too.
phil osopher
Roar Guru
The animal and plant names suck. It's absurd beyond belief.
phil osopher
Roar Guru
Fans like the local derby, true. But the current system can produce exactly the same results you fear, that is, loss of local derbies. Everton could easily be relagated one day, Leeds were (no more Man U v Leeds), Sunderland have spent a lot of time in the second tier with no Newcastle derby. Arsenal will probably get relegated this year (thats a joke). I was speaking to someone today who lived in Manchester until the 70's and he noted how most of the teams around then are in the lower divisions now and dont play the teams they used to, the point being, times change. Nottingham Forest were a huge club previously. Most young folk today wouldnt even know who they are. We all want things to stay the same, I think West ham should never be allowed to go down personally, but that's the way she goes. In any case, you'd still have Man U v Liverpool, thats the big one to me, you'd still have AC Milan v Inter, Real v Barca, Rangers V Celtic (maybe), why not? the derby would not die.
j binnie
Guest
To all contributors - One discussion point missing in all these arguments for improved competition is probably the biggest "enemy" of all , the outside interest that gets change made at the "drop of the hat". I refer of course to TV which is now undoubtedly the biggest "muscle influence" on the game at any level. In years gone past most games in the UK started at 3.00 pm on a Saturday, now, through the proper channels, THEY tell these clubs,rich & all,when they will play their games.With this "innovation" the football fan (as opposed to a club supporter) no longer needs to pick a ground,he can stay at home or in the pub, and watch 2 or 3 games if he so wishes.We are "enjoying" exactly the same situation in Australia. In 1960 I attended the final of a "sudden death " European Cup (pre- TV dominance) and stood among 127,000 fans ( remember this was before the days of cheap inter- country travel) so it would be correct to say the game pulled around 120,000 Scots out of their armchairs & pubs to watch a Spanish & German team do battle. Sure greed &avarice have seen the bigger clubs scream for a fairer share of the booty,Man U have spent millions increasing their ground capacity from around 24,000 to 73,000 so do the club deserve to be "socialised" as some have suggested, or should the others be encouraged to match the leaders???. It really is an endless debate, one that reflects normality as we know it in our everyday lives. The change from knockout to mini-league format did increase the numbers participating (no argument from TV there - more games) but whereto from there? The most common formats in football have been tried and the only option left appears to be let every champion team from European countries play a mid week league competition.Would it work? If a 100,000,000 Euro prize was offered surely the rich clubs would only throw more dollars at their efforts to win. jb
Football United
Guest
Hate the names as well mate. don't see whats so hard with auckland, canterbury or victoria but we get all dumped with all the stupid franchise names.
Fussball ist unser leben
Roar Guru
My knowledge of the football hierarchy is pretty rudimentary, but here is how I see it. All football clubs - anywhere in the world - must belong to their country's National Football Association (NFA) Each NFA is a member of FIFA. FIFA assigns each NFA to a Confederation - for European nations, the Confederation is UEFA. So, indirectly, every football club in the world falls within FIFA's jurisdiction and has to follow FIFA's rules and regulations. If a club or group of clubs decided to opt out of FIFA - e.g. by no longer being members of the National FA then, presumably, individual players will forfeit all their FIFA rights - i.e. playing for any club within the FIFA jurisdiction, including National Teams. Note: a couple of days ago, a Reuters news article reported that "for any change to be made to the structure or laws of the (English) Premier League, 14 of the 20 (clubs) need to vote in favour". Logic tells me that this ain't going to happen. 10-12 clubs aren't going to allow 2-4 big EPL clubs to leave. So, if the 2-4 big EPL clubs want to leave they'll have to divorce themselves from the English FA. Presumably, the same applies for the major professional football leagues in UEFA.
The Cattery
Roar Guru
These are Arsene's thoughts on a possible European Super League from 2 years ago: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/17/arsene-wenger-european-super-league Would it need approval from FIFA and UEFA? Not really, the 20 wealthiest clubs are much stronger than FIFA and UEFA combined. People around the world follow these 20 clubs - they don't follow FIFA and UEFA. In case you've forgotten, here is the wikipedia article on the original G-14, later expanded to the group of 18: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-14 The original 14 were: Barcelona (Spain) Real Madrid (Spain) Liverpool (England) Manchester United (England) Juventus (Italy) Milan (Italy) Internazionale (Italy) Marseille (France) Paris Saint-Germain (France) Bayern Munich (Germany) Borussia Dortmund (Germany) Ajax (Netherlands) PSV (Netherlands) Porto (Portugal) Four new members added in 2002 Arsenal (England) Lyon (France) Bayer Leverkusen (Germany) Valencia (Spain) Looking at this list, you can see already that movement can occur on the periphery of the big clubs, but my guess would be that the first 8 mentioned above would be in automatically, and then from there you are looking at filling out the other 12 from the 8 biggest leagues in Europe.
Johnno
Guest
St penguin that is what international soccer ids for . Continent cups it is is called the euro soccer championship every 4 years. And how could teams in helsinki compete with teams in moscow or the london team when bigger populations, and more tv ratings , you would have to have a salary cap, to.make it fair. And you are also killing off the euro soccer championships every 4 years to with your concept. Not ot mention the millions of football fans who don't have a club. Do you really think under your 1 club pre country model, a a soccer fan in bradford or wing will get on the bandwagon and support a london team, that does nothing for the area of bradfor or wigan. Not a chance. Wow i live in bradford or wing and i am just going to suddenly jump on supporting arsenal or man united bandwagon. No chance. Isolating the soccer fans big time.
Johnno
Guest
yes because they have a meaningful wells structured promotion and relegation system, and it is all local comp, not involving promotion relegation comp with teams from portugal, spain, bugaria, hungry, russia. Fans want local derbies, not overkill of non local derbies.
Johnno
Guest
philosopher super 15 may have some provincial names but it is hardly provincial any more. And nay reason now a sydney rugby comp or a arc RUGBY COMP would not work is while the super 15 still continues in it's format, the best playes in the prime time of the season play for them and hardly get the chance to turn out in a full time pro rugby ARC comp. And phil osopher the regular fan at everyone, leeds or liverpool or in lisbon , or in valancia, is not that excited about watching week in week out non local derby matches against other countries teams in far flun places like prague, kiev,moscow, budapest, bucharest, helsinki, munich, week in week out, have a local comp and have a europa and champions league like current. A week in week out euro soccer super league like super 15 will lack local derbies and get boring. And evrton fan would much rather a liverppol or man u or leeds match when they get back in th top division , rather than watcha top moscow or kiev or munich team. And as for non tribal rivalry like euro soccer model and super 15, gee i am so excited about watching pretoria vs waikato such deep connection not, or gee i have such a strong interest as a manchester fan watching a match in helsinki or lisbon every 2nd weekend, as opposed ot playing liverpool, or as an everyone fan give me liverpool any day of the week over a match vs a top helsinki team as part of my regular season soccer. And how on earth would you develop a fair promotion/relegation 2nd division i have no idea. And with your format you isolate so many fans in europe as most of the teams will only come form the so called big clubs. what about fans in helsinki, oslo, cophenhagen, budapest, valencia, hull, sunderland, and many more Napoli, Roda JC, do all these parts of the world simply give up and support another code. And good luck getting leeds fans or bradford fans to go and support there nearest neghbiours manchester united or man city. A leeds fan would rather not support soccer than support man united. Talk about Phil osopher isolating massively large percentage of euro soccer fans with a euro super league model.
st penguin
Guest
exactly. Instead, FIFA should set up a competition where each country gets to enter just one team. Imagine it, all the best players from that country in one team. Their uniform could even be in national colours! A competition like that would be massive!