Super Rugby and the USA

Haven't read all the comments, but I think they would need to come up with 10 teams from various countries (2 USA, 2 Canada, 2 Japan, 4 Europe). They play 2 full rounds in each country, then go into the finals series in which 1 or 2 of them will make it to the knock out stage. I would see this being 2 conference's playing together. It would mean that you end up having 2 weekends with 5 games of rugby in say Las Vagas and New York. Then the next 2 weekends you have 10 games in Tokyo. Then 2 weeks in Canada etc. Each country would end up with 10x the number of teams they have in the comp played in there country (USA 20 games) I think it would grow quickly with it being a circuit style conference throughout the competing nations. There can be 2 double headers at the same stadium on Friday and Saturday and a Sunday game each weekend. If you had say 5-6 international players partly funded by sanzar and the irb to encourage players to these teams. This is all off the top of my head without too much thought but I'm sure if something like this was funded by the unions themselves, sanzar, irb it would be a success and bring in big sponsorship dollars.

NEW ZEALAND HAVE THERE ITM CUP CHAMPIONSHIP contested between the provinces like the old AIR NEW ZEALAND NATIONAL PROVINCAL CHAMPIONSHIP Teams divided up into three divisons third division teams fort it out for the BRIAN LOCHORE CUP and second division teams fort it out for the COLIN MEADS CUP plus add the RANFURLY SHEILD CHALLENGES on top of that contested between teams from all divsions then on to the first division N.Z. top premiere divsion teams will fight it out to become NEW ZEALANDS top champion team and should be automatic relagation promosions all teams are professinally set up SOUTH AFRICA have there CURRIE CUP which provincal; teams fight it out to become the champions of SOUTH AFRICA AREGINTINA have there RIVERIA DE PLATE provincal champoinship fort to become champions of AREGINTINA if run professinally now the stage is set for a SUPER CHAMPIONS LEAGUE RUGBY the top four teams of the AUSTRALIA NATIONAL PROVINCAL CHAMPIONSHIP and the top four teams of the NEW ZEALAND ITM CUP and the top four 4 teams of the SOUTH AFRICA CURRIE CUP and the top four teams of the AREGINTINA RIVERIA DE PLATE there are 16 teams all up and divided up into four group pools containing four teams each during the pool rounds each team play up to three games each in there pool groups which ever teams leades or comes first or second in there pool groups they both advance to the knok out quarter final rounds from 16 teams in the group pool rounds down to 8 teams in the quarter finals rounds the winners advance to the semis which is down to 4 teams from the semis the winners of that round down to two teams advance to the grand final to be crown champions the winning team

Im a supporter of demestic rugby in all four countries of the southern hemiphere AUSTRALIA NEW ZEALAND ARGENTINA SOUTH AFRICA for example in AUSTRALIA there demestic championship compertition to reinterduce the state of the union clashes an all australian state of origin affair constested of the state side teams like WESTERN AUTRALIA THE FORCE, NORTHERN TERRITORY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA , TASMANIA, VICTORIA THE REBALS, AUSTRALIAN CAPTITAL TERRITORY THE BRUMBIES, NEW SOUTH WALES THE WARATAHS, and QUEENSLAND THE REDS, this been AUSTRALIA NATIONAL PROVINCAL CHAMPIONSHIP and professinally run each team play home and away bases and then on to knok out quater finals and semu finals and then on to the grand final the average team play upto 14 games a season the winnig team would play up to 17 games max a season

This is intersting article form NZ today on super 15 ownership there, basically selling of the super 15 teams , kind alike the T20 teams in the big bash. A new business model to be developed in NZ rugby. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10770397

Johnno one would think it would except for the following insurmountable problem: it's too cold in Russia, at least in Moscow and Petersburg, to play rugby in a European winter. Apparently it's also too cold for them to play in the Six Nations. So the only competitions they could join are Super rugby and Tri-nations!

KPM Russia will go to it's natural home Europe it is in Europe, and it's teams will play in the HEK cup i reckon after the 2015 world cup. They probably will play in the malign cup before 2015.

Pretty much on the same wave length here matt (see above/below). Only things id change is id keep domestic and inter-continental seperate so they have their own identity and teams can focus explicitly on one or the other. And besides (in my opinion) Aus and NZ needing each other financially, we're geographically and culturally close enough to build and maintain a strong, more localised league. I like the idea of including origin games on the calendar too. I reckon north island v south island would be a hit in NZ. And id love to see some more meaning restored into the maroon and sky blue rugby jerseys here and see a 'proper' NSW v QLD fixture at some stage of the season.

Good plan ROb9. I believe for regular season sport, the comp/divison , has to look to it's natural continent, geographic location and time zone. And Argentina/South Africa is NorthAmerica/SouthAmerica, and Africa. We Australia like in soccer should be looking at developing stronger ties with the Asia-pacific (eg Japan,Fiji,Samoa,Tonga, South Korea, INdia,china, sir lank) just like in soccer not africa or south america, we don't belong there geographic location/distance ,culturally, or time zone wise and they don't belong to us. Africa is doing more with there rugby development , they have now a super style afircan champions league, and send only semi pro or amateur south afircan players but are developing. And Brazil, Chile,Uruguay and building closer ties with Argentina. USA is an interesting 1. Do they bond more with Australia/japan as they are in the pacific via caifornia/Hawaii, or do they build closer ties with Canada, Mexico, and sty america mainly Agrenitna for now. But actually Chile and uruguay are getting very good fast, and are on par with russia now or equal to russia and namibia. I think Japan, Hong kong and singapore are all viable Asian options for super teams.AN much more natural to play than Argentina or south africa in a super comp Rob 9. Fiji is only pacific islands nations that is big enough to have 1 super team. You could play a pacific islands team but they would have to be based in Auckland or sydney or brisbane,. PNG rugby is developing but yet they don't have the infrastructure ready yet, but have the population for a super ream.

A bit beside the point of the article but I think all Super Rugby partners have now reached a point where everyone’s better off if SA go their own way. SA has the interest and the market size to create their own 8 team league ie the Currie Cup being installed as their top tier before a bok jersey. There is already big interest in the tier below Super Rugby (even more so than the ITM in NZ) and if it suddenly shot up to the top of the domestic tree that support would only multiply. As for Australia and NZ we still need each others involvement in our top tier Rugby competition. The two markets aren’t big enough to pull in the dollars that are required to maintain individual competitions that are anything close to the standard we’ve come to expect with Super Rugby. There would be a player drain, a lack of interest and fewer corporate and media dollars. But all is not lost. Currently SA is contributing some bucks to the SANZAR pie but there’s no reason a re-modelled comp involving only Trans Tasman teams can’t flourish and generate enough money to survive. I think what Australian and NZ fans are crying out for is a more domesticated top tier that involves more local teams. There are Rugby heartlands situated in large population centres in both countries that aren’t represented. The current Super Rugby format doesn’t lend itself to being easily pushed into these places. Fans also don’t want to get up/stay up till all crazy hours of the night to watch their local side do battle in their domestic comp either. SA’s involvement in what should be a domestic league is a logistic and supporter (and I dare say player) nightmare. The current format has been key in bringing the game into the professional era for the 3 SANZAR partners but it’s now run its course. Fans deserve and want a better format. I’d have a 16 team AUS/NZ league. New representation in Australia coming from Western Sydney, the Gold Coast and Newcastle and from NZ North Harbour, Hawkes Bay and Bay of Plenty. It would be 15 games (one less than the current format) and you could look at an expanded 8 team, 4 week finals system. The idea creates a more localised comp involving more teams from each country that people can identify with (allowing true tribal rivalries to emerge- Tahs v Western Sydney v Newcastle, Reds v Gold Coast, Auckland v North Harbour ect.) while creating increased opportunities for more players at the elite level. As an extension of forming these new leagues (still not the main show and domestic league but a nice little money spinner on the side), SANZAR could develop a SH/Pacific Heineken Cup style comp involving the 8 teams from each of AUS/NZ/SA. Have 8 pools with a team from each country in each pool. Pull in the top 4 teams from the Top League in Japan and the new (if it happens) Argentinean league and they can occupy the remaining spot in each of the 8 pools. Look for an 8 or 10 week window (outside of the regular domestic season and test blocks- might take shifting heaven and earth) and fans get the opportunity to see their team go up against other teams from outside their own domestic league. A game against an SA side in such a tournament would have far greater novelty value than if they’re playing one and other in the same domestic league year in year out. It also provides an opportunity to pull in Japan and Argentina to continue to grow the game in those places too. All the while such an idea gives clubs an extra 6 to 10 quality games (depending on how far they progress) in a new and mouth watering format to make money.

I'd hazzard a guess that the USOC training facilities are the best in the world. What an opportunity for these rugby players to become part of Team USA.

Thats really great news for the sport there. Having its first Pro American players,

I was in the Staes recenlty, many watched the Rugby World Cup but I do think with time zones a US team is more likely to be based in the east coast and play in Europe/Britian and not in a Super rugby comp, the game still isnt professional in the USA... Yet!!!!!

Matt, just to clarify, I'm not saying its a bad idea.

Well actually it's an opportunity Mike. The Provinces/Unions of the Currie Cup and NPC are actually the ones who own/run the SARA and NZRU. The long standing goodwill of these two competitions is being wasted by squeezing them into shrinking windows with less star names. NZers and Saffas associate very strong with the 'brands' that their traditional sides represent. These two national Unions are also wasting money running two different competitions for the main purpose of adding depth to their playing pools. They are forced to run at the same time as the Test matches as well, so viewing interest is distracted at best. There would be more sponsorship money to support the traditional provinces is these sides once again included the best players in each nation. More domestic emphasis has also finally been realised by SANZAR who understand that fans (and by default sponsors) like more derby matches. TV viewership for games in the middle of the night do not rate. Games against sides that fans don't recognize also don't rate. The trends is already happening. South Africa want a 6th conference spot for the Eastern Cape Kings. Australia too will eventually want a 6th side and NZ could do with a 6th side to allow its large amount of young playing talent to be given opportunities and retained. Once you have 6 teams you're virtually at the same size as the Currie Cup and NPC premier division anyway?! Diluting the level of competition also brings the level of play in Japans Top League closer to par. If this competition was involved in some capacity it would be MASSIVE for potential TV viewership money. More teams also means more spots for Pacific Islanders to play professionally without having to go to Europe (where the playing calendar is out of alignment). The Japanese company teams are VERY unwilling to merge or form joint teams to play Super Rugby, so to get them on board you need to incorperate the as they presently exist. With the 2019 World Cup in Japan set to boost the game like never before the Top League sides will see more fans watching and hopefully more effort and independence from the companies running them. 14 top league teams could provide plenty of professional contracts for SANZAR players looking for a big pay day as well as offering spots to top asian players from other nations (Korea, China, Kazakhstan). To me it's a very logical progression that will help all nations involved. The USA is not ready for a pro domestic competition, and neither apparently is Argentina. The Pacific Island will NEVER have the finances to support it. Yet, in the same time zone as NZ/Aus you have most of the world population and a 14 team professional rugby competition with big money and quite a few big name stars as well. All Japan needs is some help and a reason to bring their money to the table. An inter-continental cup with Japan's clubs involved would be more far more than SANZAR's current Super Rugby model. But you won't see a single yen unless they can retain their current clubs. And their 14+ current clubs are far too numerous and weak to play against the best 5 combined teams from NZ, Aus and RSA. With Japan on board the ARU and NZRU could happily say good bye to South African and build a Oceania/Asia based competition all in a compact timezone with Billions of potential live viewers. People are foolish if they don't think Japan or Asia has the athletes to compete at pro rugby. There are PLENTY of big asian people (and their populations are growing in size physically too with diverse diets these days) and a big total population. It's just about finances and exposure to build the grass roots and then stream the best talent.

I would make a 4th SUPER 15 conference based on 1 team from the USA. 1 team from Canada 1 combined - Fiji, Samoa & Tonga 2 from Argentina This should make travel a bit easier. If rugby takes off in Argentina in a few years then I would give them their own Conference and make up a 5th Conference based on 2 USA teams 1 Canada 1 combined - Fiji, Tonga, Samoa. 1 Japan Also SANZAR should consider adding another team in the RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP One possible way to do this is to make JAPAN, USA, CANADA, FIJI, SAMOA & TONGA compete in a tournament a few months before the RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP & the winner gets an invitation to play in the RC for that year. Kind of a feeder tournament, this would give those 6 teams something meaningful to play for & if they want to stay in, then it would make winning that 'feeder tournament' worthwhile.

"For South Africa this could be called the “Currie Cup” and in New Zealand the “NPC”. Australia too could create their own geographically based teams, similar to the ARC." That is the problem isn't it - South Africa has the Currie Cup, New Zealand has the NPC, but Australia does not have the ARC. Until it does, Australia will stick to S15, and as long as S15 is more profitable than their domestic comps, SA and NZ will do the same. And yes, South Africa would love to throw in its lot with Europe instead - but Europe doesn't need South Africa. So we'll all moan and complain, and then we'll go back to S15!

You have some great knowledge of the topic Kevin. If the money was available I agree that would make for a very good competition structure. If natural evolution occurs and youngsters grow up to play their way through the age grade structures in these Unions then there might well be enough grassroots support to see the above mention teams becoming semi-professional sides.

Couldn't agree more Rob. If anything I believe it would make more sense for SANZAR to increase the number of teams in each Super conference up to 8. This would allow a 14 week domestic competition in each nation. For South Africa this could be called the "Currie Cup" and in New Zealand the "NPC". Australia too could create their own geographically based teams, similar to the ARC. Each competition could have it's own lucrative naming rights sponsor (as SANZAR has done with 'The Rugby Champsionship') and each team could target more local based sponsors, rather than just being confined to overarching multi-nationals. Each weekend in each country there would be 4 matches on live locally (Friday night, Sat arvo, Sat night, Sun arvo). So you get two night games, for TV, and two day games, for live audiences and families. The level of play in each of these competitions would of course be lower than at present, but this could be made up for by staging Origin Style matches in each country (RSA = Coastal vs Highveldt, NZ = North Island vs South Island, Aus = ?) After the first round of each domestic competition (which would last 7 weeks obviously) you would then go to the first round of a cross-border segement. This would be of a much shorter duration than Super Rugby, with 8 pools of 4 teams. NZ, Aus and RSA would each have 8 teams entered, with one from each nation going into each pool. The final 8 places would be for teams from Japan's Top League (or possibly for a couple of Argentinean teams). Teams would play each opponent in their Pool home and away (6 games total), in two rounds of 3. This would see FAR less travel costs than at present and would mean you get to see each opponent being played by your team live at some stage. After the first Inter-Continental round (3 weeks) you'd then go to the June inbound tours. Then the second round of the domestic league followed by the 2nd round of Inter-Continental play, followed by 'The Rugby Championship'. The top 4 in the domestic leagues would then play semi-finals/finals and the top 2 from each Inter-Continental pool would play quarterfinals etc. The outbound November/December tours would then occur. So the season would be: Domestic League - Round 1 (7 weeks) Inter-Continental Cup - Round 1 (3 weeks) June Tours - Inbound (3 weeks) Domestic League - Round 2 (7 weeks) Inter-Continental Cup - Round 2 (3 weeks) The Rugby Championship (6 weeks) Domestic League Finals (2 weeks) Inter-Continental Cup - Finals (3 weeks) December Tour - Outbound (3 weeks) Domestic League = 16 weeks total Inter-Continental Cup = 9 weeks total Test Matches = 12 weeks total Season Total = 37 weeks (with 3 weeks of byes thrown in you'd get a 12 week/3 month off-season in Dec, Jan and Feb). As for the USA, see my post below.

USA Rugby alongside USOC have just announced that starting from next year 15 men and 8 women will assume contracted residency agreements basing themselves at the Chula Vista Olympic Training Centre in California. Link below. http://www.rugbymag.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2818:usa-rugby-unveils-7s-residency-program&catid=45:usa-sevens-men&Itemid=202

Mace, Is your reply an expose on the shortage of defibrillators on long-haul flights; the litigious nature of American society, or actually a genuine mention of something to do with rugby. Because I sure as hell am not sure exactly what it is you're on about. My apologies for not understanding.....