The Roar
The Roar

Rob9

Roar Guru

Joined September 2011

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Roar Guru
Roar Guru

What the west needs now

Covid has brought so many sectors of society to their knees over the last three or four months. Professional sport has been at the forefront of these losses with its inflated overheads driven by the ongoing quest for success.

Roar Guru
Roar Guru

Dissecting another Wallabies loss

Well, another Test and another loss for the 2013 Wallabies (sigh). Being the last match of the southern hemisphere’s Test season I feel compelled to put my thoughts down about our most recent failure to cleanse myself before we try our luck up north.

Hodge runs great lines. He’s not powerful in the sense of dropping defenders on their backsides, but can brush off them while running to space instead of shoulders. Hodge doesn’t have to be a ‘ball player’ with one playing at 10. Although he does have some ball playing ability (he has played 10 before) that can relieve some pressure on whoever’s 10. If there isn’t a strategy for kicking there needs to be and he actually has the ability to play a big part in that.

Simone is an option, but he’s an unproven quantity at this level. Could be worth giving him a shot against the Pumas.

Dave Rennie flags changes after Wallabies' 'poor' tackling performances in Bledisloe 2

After an ‘OK’ game last week, this game made it as clear as day that JOC is not a 10. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good player. But he wasn’t even one of our 3 best 10’s in SRAU. He’s just not a play maker or an organiser and you NEED these abilities at this level- even when you’re playing alongside someone that has those skills (like he had last week with Toomua). If Toomua’s fit, he must start at 10. If not, let’s give the kid a go. Start Hodge at 12. He’s a powerful ball runner and his boot is a valuable asset. Paisami hasn’t worked out right now at this level- must go and work on his defence. Petaia must start. Koroibete had an absolute shocker on Sunday. All of the holes in his game were up in lights. I’d be tempted to give Tom Wright a crack. I don’t know that we have the required balance with Koroibete and Daugunu in the back 3 together. Finally, if we need a jumper in the backrow- the only answer I can think of is shifting LSL to 6 and bringing back one of our locks from OS. Get in Twiggy’s ear to sign Rodda up for 2021 and bring him straight in.

Dave Rennie flags changes after Wallabies' 'poor' tackling performances in Bledisloe 2

I don’t think the closeness of those rankings provides an accurate comparison of the long-term strength of Japan and Argentina. Things are happening in Japan and that’s exciting but I think Argentina is a far more mature rugby nation with stronger mid-term prospects than Japan has. There’s still a sizeable gap between Australia/New Zealand and Argentina; I wouldn’t be pinning our hopes on an engaging competition with a country that’s even further behind.

Of course all of this is fluid and able to change as nations gain strength. We’re getting a dose of how things can shift with ease at the moment. It would be nice to think that the likes of the US and Japan will be snapping at our heels in the future- but we’ve got to build based on what’s in front of us now and that starts by looking at who’s available from the 1st tier. Not building up Japan to be something that they’re not quite yet or clutching at straws with any other parts of Asia.

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

Cheers mate. Still holding out hope we can all play in the sandbox together for many years to come. We’ll just have to see how that cookie deteriorates!

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

Pretty much agree with all of that.

Just to be clear, I think the best global model for a break down of the regions is the Rugby Championship and 6N as they are providing all tier 1 nations with their annual competition. Then a more defined Pacific Nations Cup giving the PI’s and the emerging powers of the North Pacific a competitive tier 2 concept to engage and continue to develop themselves in.

Agree about the Nations Cup and it’s impact on the RWC. It’s for that reason that I’ve never been a fan of it.

From a tier 1 perspective, I think the most significant reason against having SA in both regional tournaments is that it gives them the advantage of being exposed to all tier one teams annually in an tournament format.

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

I just personally believe that the ‘regionalism’ of the 6N and Rugby Championship is something that adds to their aura and is worth protecting. Having a team(s) with a foot in each camp diminishes that for mine. We crossover in competition for the RWC and that’s something that I wouldn’t want to compromise either. Furthermore, I’m not sure South Africa limiting their pool of opponents to those in the 6N and RC outside of the RWC is a good thing for those smaller and developing nations.

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

Just running a side commentary Peter. Good for the Boks, but I don’t necessarily think good for the interests of global rugby. I think we’d all like to be involved in both of these competitions if we could.

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

I don’t think it will ever get comparable to the landscape and forces that are at play in soccer. Simply because rugby captures a fraction of the interest that soccer does in Europe. There’s already evidence to suggest that the money being thrown around in European rugby (which really isn’t that far away from what’s on offer in the Southern Hemisphere) isn’t sustainable with most clubs living beyond their means and many owners expressing a desire to implement structures that make the money pits that many of these clubs are more shallow.

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

A country having access to the 2 significant regional competitions would be an interesting prospect. I guess they’d have to pull back a bit from the June and November windows to avoid heading towards playing 20 tests/year. But if it’s an option that’s afforded to them and it fits in the calendar they’d probably want to get on it. There wouldn’t be too many teams left to play in those June and November windows anyway.

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

Thanks Daffyd. Agree about troublesome timezones. But unfortunately I think if we’re limiting ourselves to the countries in +10 to +12 timezones- we’re not going to have a particularly engaging product. We certainly shouldn’t be looking to part ways with a 2nd tier 1 country from the Rugby Championship.

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

Roar Eds, from this paragraph-

“ It’s something I’ve started to play around with in my mind as the bits of news about Super Rugby AU appearing to distance itself from SANZAAR.”

‘Super Rugby AU’ was submitted as SARU (South African Rugby Union’

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

Thanks Bob!

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

Cheers JD, interesting times ahead indeed!

Rugby in a post-aBokalypic world

Chambers couldn’t hold a starting spot in the Reds. Starting only 6 of 18 games in their championship season (hence sitting on the bench in the GF and staying there till FT). Rewind and he started in Melbourne’s GF win of 09. Fast-forward and he was let go by the Reds in 2012. There is nothing about his form in Rugby that suggests he would have gone on to become a Wallaby.

Tahu played all 3 games for NSW in 06 before announcing at the start of the 07 NRL season that he’d be making the switch to rugby at the end of the season- is it really any great surprise that he wasn’t picked for the 07’s series? In that same season he was nominated alongside another 3 players for Centre of the Year. He can’t have been playing that bad. After struggling to transfer his undeniable talents with the Tahs and struggling through 4 (many thought undeserved) Wallaby caps, he dropped out of his contract 2 years early. He was parachuted straight back into the Blues team in 2010, playing 1 game of the series and would have played the whole series if he didn’t withdraw due to Joey’s slur.

The last half of Benji’s career has been hot and cold. There were periods in the lead up to him leaving for the Blues that he was hot, as there have been since his return. One things for sure, his full tenure in rugby was cold.

Burgess played in England’s worst ever RWC campaign and many argued he didn’t deserve his spot.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

What exactly is contentious about the video with a commentary that effectively represents a statement of fact as opposed to subjective opinion and a headline that does the same?

It’s sad that people find the criticism rightly flowing from this as confronting and then feel the need to rabidly defend Plumtree’s laughingly ironic statement because he’s speaking your national religion- the All Blacks. Call it out for what it is or at least just sit by and shake your head silently like many of us did when Cheika spoke. Put Plumtree in a gold shirt and our East Coast would be hit by a tsunami set off by a collective atomic scoff from across the ditch.

Stop blaming the roar for people’s inability to keep their toys in the cot when confronted with the prospect that someone representing their national rugby team is coming off like a tool.

NZ accuse Wallabies of dirty play in Bledisloe 1... while claiming 'All Blacks don't cry'

That’s rubbish, there’s plenty of discussion regarding salary when rugby signs league talent. There’s been extensive discussion around a Vunivalu’s (the most recent convert) large contract with RA and the Reds- even at the time of signing and before the pandemic when it became somewhat problematic.

The point stands; their wage is based on their reputations in league while having little to no experience in rugby- of course that comes with heightened expectations, despite their most recent form in league.

I don’t have the memory to compare their season prior to signing with rugby to their performance in rugby. I do know all 4 had very underwhelming rugby careers and I also know that at least 3 of them performed better in league than they ever did in rugby when they crossed back over…. may be starting to sound like their time in rugby was a flop.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

Ok, if you want to put those sorts of parameters on it. I guess the expectations exist because many come with a price tag that’s a result of the talent they’ve demonstrated previously (may be not just the 12 months prior) while also having not a single run on the board in terms of their form in rugby.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

What’s this Rocky Elsom business?? He was playing No. 8 for Nudgee’s 1st XV for 2 years and represented Queensland and Australian schoolboys in rugby. I still have nightmares from my encounters with him on Ross Oval in 2000 and there were lineouts and rucks involved. Eg. we weren’t playing League. He was signed as a teenager after school by the Bulldogs for 2 seasons before coming back to Union with the Tahs in 03’. Hardly a dyed in the wool Leaguie…

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

Scott, I also played against him when he was at Nudgee

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

Sure, he almost doesn’t count as a ‘convert’ which plays into the point that few end up at or beyond their best form in league.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

‘Just before they came over’? What time frame are you applying to that?
All 4 of those players were miles away from their best form in league during their time in rugby. 2 were capped at test level but that was more on reputation (from their time in league) than form.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

Yep guessing game. But I think the evidence and realities of the landscape at the time in question are there to suggest that a guess of him having at least a 10 year representative career in League (3 of which are obviously already in the bank) isn’t an outlandish one.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

Soapit, the quote in question hardly suggests that every or even most league to union convert is a ‘flop’. Simply that there’s a good number of good to very good (to even great in some instances) league players that crossover and ‘flop’ (not perform consistently at the level they achieved in their home code) to may be put some doubt in the mind of those flirting with the idea these days. Eg. Tahu, Chambers, Burgess, Marshall.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

Of course it’s all a guessing-game really.

When he left league in 2010 as a 21yo he had 3 series under his belt. For the next 4 he would have been up against Darius Boyd and Brent Tate for a spot (eg. walks into the team blindfolded) before Chambers and Gagai come into the mix for the next 2. All still quality players and Kangaroos in their own right but it’s not until Val Holmes comes into the mix in 2017 that I think there’s a comparably talented winger to Folau (remembering there’s also 2 wing spot so Folau could still have added to his caps with Holmes). As a 27 year old (still not a dinosaur for a winger), Folau could have had 9 series under his belt and probably at least another 2 safely. And this is a backline that dominated Kangaroos selections for the decade in question.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

Yea fair call. Rogers was obviously at TSS before heading to the Shire so had a good foundation to make the switch. I’d rate him and Barnes as Australia’s most successful ‘converts’ and both played GPS schoolboy rugby.

Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?