The Roar
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Rob9

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Joined September 2011

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Roar Guru
Roar Guru

What the west needs now

Covid has brought so many sectors of society to their knees over the last three or four months. Professional sport has been at the forefront of these losses with its inflated overheads driven by the ongoing quest for success.

Roar Guru
Roar Guru

Dissecting another Wallabies loss

Well, another Test and another loss for the 2013 Wallabies (sigh). Being the last match of the southern hemisphere’s Test season I feel compelled to put my thoughts down about our most recent failure to cleanse myself before we try our luck up north.

Interesting way of looking at it.

You’re right, the challenge for A and B really heats up in the QF’s. Although B would have to be the ‘GOD’ in terms of squeezing 3 into 2 with Scotland eyeing off their game with Ireland.

It’ll be interesting to watch C and D unfold- particularly with the new eligibility law (which I’m not exactly a fan of). I think we could see a repeat of France 07 with Fiji exiting the pool successfully in place of Wales. While Samoa and Japan could both easily cause Argentina some troubles on their day.

But as you’ve pointed out, you’d have to expect Australia and England to make it out on top (less certain for the Wallabies) and find themselves in pretty winnable QF’s.

In the end, I think we’ll see a repeat of NZ 11 with France and NZ heading towards a second date at the Stade- which I think (hope) might follow a similar plot to their meeting their on the weekend.

'Rocky, heaving, but brutally beautiful': What we learnt about every RWC contender in 2021

I agree that bowlers don’t get enough action in T20 to ply their trade and I’d like to see them more involved in the format.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing the innings stretched out a little bit more to take a bit of the heat off the batsmen to allow them find their rhythm, while also having the opportunity to arrest a declining momentum to work your team back into a game if things aren’t going as planned. This could be a compromise to leave us with just the 1 version of limited overs which I think we’ll see come to fruition at some point with a jam-packed calendar of competing forces.

My thoughts are- x9 15 ball overs for a 135 ball innings (as opposed to the current 120)… stay with me here: Each bowler can take 2 overs for a total of 30 deliveries (6 more balls than the status quo) which leaves 15 balls to be delivered by a part timer. The appeal of T20 is the window of time that it’s able to be played in. With time between overs taking 60 to 90 seconds, x9 15 ball overs takes 11 bowler change intervals out per innings while also including another 15 balls of action.

‘The 100’ has shown the way that all ingredients of cricket are able to be changed, including how many balls constitute an ‘over’. For mine ‘The 100’ is a step in the wrong direction (further reducing the cricket experience), but I’d like to see some of the thinking applied to a version of the game that doesn’t condense it further.

'Chaos and T20 cricket go hand in hand': Four changes T20 needs to make

Thanks for an interesting and well-researched article.

It’d be pretty cool (pardon the pun) but I just can’t see it happening any time soon. We’re due to host our 2nd Summer Olympics in the space of 32 years, so despite Australia having some ‘fun’ snow areas and an appetite to head north (and east) for a ski/board, I just don’t think there would be the required groundswell of public support. The investment to host a games is well documented and you’ve outlined some of the logistical challenges for an ACT/snowy mountains games that would require even more funding to troubleshoot.

Given these realities (lack of public support, challenges and subsequent increased investment)- I just don’t think an Aussie Winter Olympics is on the cards. Across the ditch on the other hand is an interesting prospect. Due to their markets isolation and limited size, I don’t think they’ll ever find themselves in a position to host a Summer edition, but a ‘South Island Games’ could be a good fit for winter. With the Summer Games out of reach, there could be more public interest to put themselves up to host a global event like the Winter Olympics. It would provide a great opportunity to sell themselves to the world and in particular- sell themselves as a winter destination (with limited competitors from May to October). Many of the logistical challenges of an Aussie Winter Games either wouldn’t exist or wouldn’t present as high a hurdle. Queenstown is a reasonably sized resort town with the snow on it’s doorstep that’s well ahead of Jindabyne as a hub/gateway to the mountains. It’s not too far from Dunedin which could host all non-mountain sports. I’d also imagine the vertical drops wouldn’t be an issue in NZ either.

Could Australia host the Winter Olympics?

I think what Eddie might like and what he wouldn’t like in response to his ‘casts’ won’t matter one iota to in terms of the result of the game.

I think his comments would prompt an eyebrow raise and a chuckle amongst the 23 that matter, and a ‘what planet are you operating on’ from the rest of us.

If he really were the master of mind warfare he would have coached a lot more wins than he has.

Hooper shrugs off Jones taunt and England threat: 'We play the Kiwis three times a year'

‘Yes, but rugby league is only considered a ‘sport’ in Australia’

Sure- I’m just responding to Eddie’s comments that league games against England have a significant meaning, while in reality they’re largely irrelevant. Much like how Australians view the UK in respect to us on the whole. I think Eddie’s had too many warm beers or is suffering from a lack of vitamin D 😊

Hooper shrugs off Jones taunt and England threat: 'We play the Kiwis three times a year'

Ahh Edward… there’s not one aspect of life that has ever made me feel like I’m missing something by being Australian and not English. Certainly not the most important aspect; quality of life, and there’s a million or so from Eddie’s adopted homeland who agree. May be I might feel some if I was more of a soccer fan but even then, England haven’t won anything in 50 years and I think our head to head against them isn’t terrible. As far as rugby goes, there’s more feeling in those games against our Southern Hemisphere rivals who have won more than 1 RWC. And rugby league…. Please! Games against Tonga mean more than the ones against England do.

Hooper shrugs off Jones taunt and England threat: 'We play the Kiwis three times a year'

The quotes this thread refers to are; ‘Do you know how little support the Storm have in Victoria? It is embarrassing’

In the 4 years prior to covid, the Storm have been entrenched in the League’s Top 5 most attended clubs for home games. Their worst season in that window was 17,300 when they were the 5th most attended team. How on earth is that embarrassing? Were those 17,300 fans (which was still the low-point of that 4-year period) carboard cut-outs, because according to our friend Thom, ‘people just don’t care about them’. And sure, you can throw the AFL comparisons in there and the Storms off field success hardly sets the world on fire, but if their level of support is ‘embarrassing’ I’m really interested to know how this diehard Suns fan assesses the support for his team whose average crowds haven’t gone above 14k since 2014.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

“the NRL panicked and put together the Titans in a rush when the AFL announced they were exploring the idea of a GC team”

Rubbish. There was an active Gold Coast bid team almost since the Chargers were cut in 99’. The NRL knocked back an official Gold Coast expansion bid from this consortium a few years before they were finally given a license. The key tipping points was the State Gov coming to the party with Robina. There were numerous trials on the Coast between the booting of the Chargers and the inclusion of the Titans and another Gold Coast team was always a matter of when, not if. Don’t kid yourself, it had nothing to do with the AFL sniffing around.

As for stuff like this: “Do you know how little support the Storm have in Victoria? It is embarrassing”. It’s beggars’ belief that you can spin BS like that on one hand, while being a fanboy of a club that represents a community that on the whole, so clearly has a limited interest in it. It’s funny, I never hear relocation rumours about the Storm, yet there’s no shortage of commentary across the AFL advocating for the Suns to be sent to Tasmania (or dropped altogether).

As a Gold Coaster myself, I hope the Suns succeed…. But if you are seriously suggesting support for the Storm in Melbourne is embarrassing and that people just ‘don’t care about them’; where does that leave your beloved Suns? Yes, I know there’s an Australian Football presence on the Gold Coast and supposedly it’s an ‘Aussie Rules town’, but you are living in a parallel universe if you actually believe that that’s been successfully funnelled into a local football club that is being adequately supported by it’s community.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

You really are a challenged individual aren’t you. Here I’ve shown what utterly absurd and baseless comparison you’ve attempted to draw between rugby league’s popularity in Australia and England respectively. Above you’ve replied to my comment with the implied suggestion that rugby league shouldn’t entertain making a play for market share in Australia beyond the states that it currently counts as heartlands. I never bought ‘them’ into it… YOU DID on both accounts!

Is there hope for English rugby league?

Hang on… an adversarial approach!? You replied to my comment with quotes that effectively spell out that rugby league shouldn’t bother with WA or SA. My initial response was that it is possible for 2 codes to exist in a decent sized town. But seriously…. Who’s taking the adversarial approach here??

Again; your lack of objectivity and how you inaccurately frame the game to make it less than what it actually is certainly leave one with the impression that you don’t have an ounce of love for rugby league. If you have some appreciation for it then fish on… but may be build some perspective because your some of your insights are disconnected from reality.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

You know what’s disingenuous? Trying to draw a parallel between the fact that there’s two internal territories in the UK and Australia that Rugby League counts as heartlands. What Lancashire and Yorkshire represent to England vs NSW and QLD to Australia could not be further from one and other.

Furthermore, there’s no comparison to be made between rugby league’s depth of penetration in the north of England vs the East coast of Australia. Rugby League is entrenched at the top of the tree by some way on Australia’s east coast while it sits behind at least daylight and soccer (and possibly some other sports) in the north of England.

So while your statement is an attempt to minimalise rugby league’s popularity in Australia by suggesting it ‘really is only popular in’ 2 states- there’s absolutely no comparison to be made with its popularity in England.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

Not really. In Premier Rugby, UQ is known as ‘Uni’. Bond Uni, probably Bond. Which is confusing on the Gold Coast because there’s a local club called Bond (Pirates) that has absolutely nothing to do with the University.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

BTW, as far as this “You are being parochial because you think I’m anti-Rugby League just because I write about AFL”

You’ve shown your true colours just below where you’re grabbed a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with AFL and trailed off about it over a number of paragraphs. I think you’re anti-rugby league because most of your commentary here hasn’t been at all objective and probably best defined as… anti-rugby league.

I don’t feel threatened at all by commentary that’s critical of rugby league. I’ve introduced my own flavour in a number of places in this thread. But comments like “ The battle for supremacy has long since been fought and won” put up in lights what your true MO is here.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

“Aside from the sporting schools, which are largely shared these days, I can’t think of any significant union club at all. Is Uni based down there?”

Was Gold Coast Breakers competing in Premier Rugby that were based out of one of the local clubs (Surfers Paradise Dolphins). Now Bond University RC which is growing and has some of the best facilities/infrastructure in Prem Rugby.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

How am I bending what you say? Again- you said the Gold Coast is an ‘Aussie Rules town’. I accept what it turns out you actually meant which was the Gold Coast is a heartland for Queensland AFL (a state which isn’t exactly an AFL-stronghold).

Go back to where this started- you replied to my comment that the NRL should look to grow the game domestically in non-traditional league states with comments such as- ‘The horse has bolted on that front, I’m afraid’ and ‘The battle for supremacy has long since been fought and won’. Does that not infer that the NRL shouldn’t even bother with a place like Perth? Do you care to tell me what you actually meant on this front if I’m bending what you say? And really, the irony that you podcast and write about the Suns (a team half the city barely know exists) is just too delicious for words.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

‘You follow union as well. Do you advocate leaving Japan and Argentina behind?’

Are you framing ‘leaving behind’ as not including them in Super Rugby? Yes. Absolutely.

Very very long story short- rugby League has got to where it has off the back of a tribal domestic season played for 30 weeks of the years amongst teams dotted along the east coast. Rugby on the other hand has created this Frankenstein of a competition with multiple stakeholders (with their own unique interests) thats played across a wide spread of time zones amongst teams- many of which, the average punter would know little about. I’m guessing you know enough about rugby to know how this going for the game and the mess it’s put Australian rugby in in particular.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

Cheers AMD,

For a guys that’s written a chain of articles on the history and prospects of rugby League in France, there’s little doubt we’d disagree on the prioritisation of the international game in the rugby league calendar and budget. But just to be clear, while there’s good contests to be had between the Kangaroos and other ‘leading nations’ (Kiwis, England/GB), I’m certainly not suggesting those games meet the chopping block. I simply question the need to do more beyond that (for Australia’s interests).

Is there hope for English rugby league?

Probably a good idea, though I’m just not sure you’ve identified exactly what it is that you disagree with me on. Enjoy your night.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

‘Playing international league, obviously. How are you still not getting that?’

That isn’t already happening (covid aside)?

‘Nonsense. If the SOO players don’t want to play, there’ll be a queue behind them. If they don’t want to play, their loss.’

Playing commitments (including beyond the player stakeholder group themselves) isn’t a topic ever discussed critically?

‘Ok, but what is this compromise?
Playing rugby league games between the leading nations?’

Again- in regular times, IS THIS NOT HAPPENING? Games between leading nations…. this is not a new strategy that’s going to pull England out of their funk is it? I’m not suggesting for one second that it is something that should cease…. just take it back to simmer for a moment.

‘Like I said, I can be guilty of a provincial outlook, but wow…’

Wow indeed…. there is a clear missed line of communication.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

Why have you gone off on an AFL tangent here? You didn’t mention it once in your long-winded dumping on rugby league (comparing Australia’s rugby league presence to that of the UK where it’s confined to 2 counties) and I didn’t mention it in my reply. What’s AFL got to do with anything here?

Is there hope for English rugby league?

‘I never said that the Gold Coast was primarily an Aussie Rules town’

You said the Gold Coast was an ‘Aussie Rules town’. It might be a heartland as far as QLD heartland’s go for AFL- but it’s miles behind rugby league and I could probably build a compelling case as to why your suggestion that ‘it’s ahead of rugby union’ might not necessarily be the case too.

In any event, this is all in response to the idea that the NRL shouldn’t bother going anywhere near AFL territory because they AFL has it sewn up. Rugby League has the Gold Coast sewn up, yet we have the Suns. Sure, the AFL has a presence on the Gold Coast- but you think rugby league doesn’t have its own presence and infrastructure to build on in a place like Perth?

Is there hope for English rugby league?

‘Why should we accept the limitations of AFL and union as our limitations?’

It’s not accepting limitations, it’s looking at 2 local examples in response to the idea that growing the international game is the best avenue for growing the game domestically. One is at the top of the tree locally and has got there and continues grow without any international presence to speak of. One has a considerable international landscape yet is stuck in decline locally.

‘Why not see what could happen? It wouldn’t cost much – it’s just good people getting involved in England, France and PNG, among others. We’re not talking about subsidising another league. I don’t see the financial anxiety you allude to.’

Well, what are we talking about? I’ve seen making compromises to benefit the international game discussed on this thread. What should be happening that isn’t already?

An annual clash against England/GB is great (obviously plus games against NZ). But we’re talking about one of the most physically demanding games on the planet. With a domestic league taking up the centrepiece of the sport, it’s not a game that lends itself to a lengthy international season. The NRL season is 24 games with potentially another 4 finals games. Throw in the intensity of SOO and the demand on the games top shelf players is fairly extreme and is something that isn’t exactly void of criticism either. Personally, I’m not prepared to compromise the NRL season to plump up the international landscape.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

Fellow Gold Coaster here- define ‘Aussie Rules town’? Yes, there is an Australian Football presence here, but I wouldn’t exactly call it an ‘Aussie Rules town’. Especially when there’s another winter football code positioned well ahead of it locally. I could even split some hairs with you regarding your statement on rugby. You might have heard of a little ole school on the Nerang River called TSS? Known as a Reds and Wallabies nursery.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

‘Much like Yorkshire and Lancashire, Rugby League in Australia is really only popular in Queensland and New South Wales.’

Cept QLD and NSW represent over half of the country’s population.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

There’s plenty of room for more than 1 code to exist professionally in decent sized cities. Nobody actually believes the NRL would rock up on Perth and Adelaide’s respective doorsteps and take over.

I see you write and podcast on the Suns. You wouldn’t have much to write or talk about if the AFL took the approach that you’re suggesting the NRL should.

Is there hope for English rugby league?

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