The Roar
The Roar

Rob9

Roar Guru

Joined September 2011

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Roar Guru
Roar Guru

What the west needs now

Covid has brought so many sectors of society to their knees over the last three or four months. Professional sport has been at the forefront of these losses with its inflated overheads driven by the ongoing quest for success.

Roar Guru
Roar Guru

Dissecting another Wallabies loss

Well, another Test and another loss for the 2013 Wallabies (sigh). Being the last match of the southern hemisphere’s Test season I feel compelled to put my thoughts down about our most recent failure to cleanse myself before we try our luck up north.

Interesting. Do you know what suburb/area north east of the CBD?

Brisbane Olympics as good as a done deal: Coates

That’s probably the other candidate (unless they build somewhere else altogether). If there’s a way to bring the Gabba up to a 80k + capacity for the Olympics window before dropping it back to around 50k, I think that would make the most sense from a legacy standpoint. A stadium with a track is going to need an oval surface and we don’t need another large oval stadium. Converting it to a rectangle pitch after the games will be more costly and with Suncorp doing its job, we don’t really need another large rectangular stadium either (especially one further from the city). It’s timely as our oval stadium is the one that’s in need for a lick of paint but what they can do in the space will dictate things I suppose.

Brisbane Olympics as good as a done deal: Coates

Good stuff. Also worth a mention is the Hunter’s taking on the role of the ‘Q Cup’s Warriors’ and relocating to the Gold Coast for the duration of the competition. They’re said to be playing home games out of Runaway Bay which is a great local club on the north side of the GC. I’m sure the local community will get right behind them.

Why you should watch the Intrust Super Cup this season

Great news. With talk of Tokyo’s cancellation this year- I had thought they might be likely to be given 2032 which as well as pushing SEQ’s candidacy back 4 years- would also work against us given we’d be going for a slot on the back of another city in the Asia Pacific and in a similar time zone. But all looks to be staying the course and this is a really positive sign. I’m really interested to see what the plan is for the main stadium. With the Gabba being quite central, major transport infrastructure going in close by and the fact that it’s the next major cricket/AFL venue that’s in line for a refurb; it would present a great option. I’d imagine the challenge would be bringing it up to an 80,000 seat capacity for the games in the space they have to work with there though. Longer term it would drop back to 50k but I’d imagine they’d have to reclaim/build over the Vulture and Stanley St and potentially the school at the east end to make it games-worthy.

Brisbane Olympics as good as a done deal: Coates

As alluded to in my original comment; I found his appointment an odd choice. I thought the interim incumbent had done a sensational job under trying circumstances and his performance in such a tumultuous environment was the runs on the board to give him a shot. The board saw differently and went with Marinos who (again, as alluded to in the original comment) I was less than convinced with in his performance with SANZAAR. All I suggest is that it appears he knows his agenda and it’s made up of the right stuff to get the game back on the right path. Time will tell as he starts to implement the agenda he’s outlined.

Build it and they will come: The Andy Marinos view for Australian rugby

“How is he going to build the heroes and make the game attractive? And what control does he have over any of that?”

It wasn’t necessarily his win but a Super game a week on FTA is certainly a good start and a strategic decision/move that fits within his job description. That’s one of many tangible strategies that Marinos has/will have in front of him to make up ground in this area that has been so desperately depleted under previous regimes.

Build it and they will come: The Andy Marinos view for Australian rugby

It’s all about visibility, isn’t it. And it appears there’s some early traction on that front and the rhetoric around putting our interests first certainly supports the approach of cutting through and speaking to our local market.

Build it and they will come: The Andy Marinos view for Australian rugby

Given the unceremonious demise of SANZAAR during his tenor (which was certainly already sliding well before his employment began) I was weary of his appointment, but he seems to be hitting a few good notes here. This in particular struck a chord with me: “I think the responsibility for us as Rugby Australia, and the professional side of the game is to continue to push a positive promotion of the game. Build heroes and make the game attractive, and then at every opportunity that we do get to make sure that we are dipping back down into the community game and showing our support.”

It seems like he’s got a good grasp on the landscape despite there being next to no evidence of that in his decision-making with SANZAAR. There’s still so much up in the air at the moment and I guess he’s right to keep an open mind on the possibilities while holding the lens of ‘what’s best for Australian rugby’ firmly over the top of the next strategic move.

Build it and they will come: The Andy Marinos view for Australian rugby

May be by your ‘unique’ analytical interpretations. You become a Super Rugby standard prop by showing enough promise to earn a contract to enter a professional system where you are paid to effectively train, play, eat and sleep rugby. It is in that system that you become a Super Rugby standard prop.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

Tupou’s scrum-game has only picked up in the last year or 2. A result of the time he’s spent training and playing in the national and Queensland setups. You you don’t become a test-standard prop by packing down against semi-professionals in the NRC.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

Not to mention Latu, Kepu, Phipps, Foley, Beale, AAC and Folau from 2019. Five of these seven made the RWC squad, 1 would have if he was available and 1 is 70-cap Wallaby. No team was more impacted from the usual post-RWC exodus yet the Tahs issues are supposedly down to their lack of engagement with the NRC….

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

It’s very easy to discuss games from 3 years ago and say ‘this is what was happening’, isn’t it Rhys (and accuse people of not watching… you’re too much)? It’s funny how the results don’t reflect that. Nor most people’s memories who I think would recall some glimpses of hope on occasions but would remember the pre-2020 Reds as an outfit that was well beaten across the park more often than not (which at least aligns to the results).

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

See above; you’ve done nothing but pick up random pieces of data and fruitlessly tried to connect them back to the NRC while ignoring and making excuses for the realities that cast a dark shadow of doubt over your whole hypothesis. And now you want to invent stuff and suggest the Reds pack ‘did well against foreign packs for a couple of seasons before covid’. Define ‘did well’? 9 wins from 26 starts against teams from outside the Australian conference from 2017 until the pandemic doesn’t suggest to me that they’re getting much traction. Neither does finishing 14th (out of 18), 13th (out of 15) or 14th (out of 15) over that period of time. You can know rugby back to front (it’s pretty clear you don’t), but your analytical ability is quite comical. May be take some of your own advice and not only know but understand what you’re talking about before your next ‘the Reds won, bring back the NRC’ article.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

The NRC is not going to stop ‘talented young guns’ from heading overseas.

4000-8000 rarely showed up to an NRC game.

The NRL averages 15,000 for 8 games per week over 26 weeks.

The only thing with some weight behind it is your 2nd point. But the drop from test rugby is that substantial that the difference between staying ‘test match fit’ in the NRC or club rugby is minimal.

Outside of these points, the only other thing in the NRC’s favour is that it puts players a couple of games ahead of where they would have been in preparation for Super Rugby. That’s all well and good while the concept doesn’t depend on fan engagement to remain cost neutral and it has a broadcast deal to effectively cover its expenses. In the absence of this, it’s an expense providing such a minimal return which puts the NRC in the ‘bad investment’ basket.

At the end of the day, the cream will always rise to the top. A good Super Rugby player will become a good Super Rugby player with Super Rugby experience. The NRC just helps getting them there fractionally quicker. As for the impact on test rugby talent; the NRC’s influence is insignificant.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

They’re also enjoying a period of time where they’re playing only 4 other Australian packs, so they’re being made to look more dominant than they would have in the previous landscape where they’re regularly up against Kiwi and SA packs. And are those players in the engine room such as Wright, Wilson, FMR, ASY, Blyth etc. the players they are without the NRC? I believe they are.

No doubt the Reds are becoming a solid team and they’re on the up, but I find this talk of a ‘Reds resurgence’ while they’re only playing 3 and a half other teams incredibly misguided (again, I say this as a Reds fan myself). What I also find misguided is advocating for something that’s been tried and subsequently proven to add very little value. And at a time when the game doesn’t exactly find itself in a position to be able to sink money into initiatives that have failed to provide any sort of substantial (on or off field) return previously.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

This is a pointless discussion. You’re making an art-form out of drawing a long bow to build an argument while ignoring and making excuses for relevant facts that don’t suit your flakey narrative.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

Rhys, you wrote an almost identical piece last year when the Reds downed the Tahs by 6 points in the opening game of Super Rugby AU. As well as ignoring the significant streak of wins the Tahs had notched up over the Reds to that point, it didn’t age well with the Tahs knocking over the Reds by 33 points in their next encounter. It’s clear you’re a fan of the NRC- fine. But please don’t tell me we have one of these NRC puff pieces to look forward to every time the Reds beat the Tahs. The Reds winning two of the last three games over the Tahs and having a better side over the last one and a bit (COVID impacted) seasons does not prove anything about the NRC’s effectiveness. While Brisbane City and QLD Country performed better than most NSW teams since the NRC’s inception, the Tahs were almost undefeated against the Reds for 5 or 6 years. Where were these articles then?

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

Rhys, I’ve proved that original point and completely disproved your whole argument. It is a fact that rugby in this country (and therefore in its two heartland markets of NSW and QLD) has hit new lows in just about every measureable over the last 5 or 6 years. A period of time that the NRC has been embedded within our landscape. Again, I’m by no means suggesting it’s to blame for our problems but there is now considerable evidence that suggests it’s not the beacon of light that many were painting it out to be (and that you’re suggesting it is). While it’s expense can’t be justified (with a Foxtel making it cost neutral), thankfully the decision makers that count see things my way and not yours.

The argument isn’t that the Brumbies and Reds have gone forward and the Tahs have stagnated. You’ll get no argument from me on that front. It’s that the NRC is the leading cause of those trends which the evidence suggests is a false hypothesis. The NRC has been in existence since 2014 and each teams positioning in relation to the others in today’s snapshot is irrelevant. The fact is that the Tahs have enjoyed more success over that period of time than the Reds. That’s not because of the NRC either, just like today’s Reds having the wood over today’s Tahs isn’t.

Your last line says it all; you don’t ‘recruit’ from amateur club competitions (although unfortunately teams have had to due to the dire fortunes of the game recently). Your primary recruitment channel is the schools pathway and that’s where the Reds and Brumbies have left the Tahs in their dust in recent times.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

Not really. Let’s get real; you’re talking about form in a 5 team competition. And one of those 5 teams is rebuilding itself from a previously semi-professional existence.

Looking at the NRC, those states with 1 club are in the advantageous position of capturing the majority of their Super talent for their one NRC team. Therefore the only really valid comparison is between the Reds and Tahs. Not exactly a significant sample to draw definitive conclusion about the effectiveness of the NRC. It’s hardly conclusive even looking at the results of the most recent full Super Rugby seasons either with the Tahs finishing above the Reds in 2019 and 2018.

The Tahs hitting a rough patch and the Reds representing one of two teams setting the benchmark in a 5 team (really only 4 last year) competition and this is down to how each union embeds the NRC into their programs- give me a break! And I say this as a Reds fan myself.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

‘Whatever happens though, the issue needs to be resolved in favour of reinvigorating the NRC for the welfare of the entire code in this country.’

The on and off field fortunes of the game continued to dive to new depths throughout the existence of the NRC. I’m not suggesting that it was to blame, but let’s not pretend that it’s the cure to ensure ‘the welfare of the entire code in this country’. It did absolutely nothing to arrest the slide rugby has been on throughout much of the last decade.

Is it time to reconsider dumping the National Rugby Championship?

I actually agree with most of your logic there. The Broncos, Storm, Cowboys, Brumbies, WSW etc have all shown that something can be created from next to nothing (while still being tailored and formed with the community they represent in mind) and go on to become an endeared entity that’s entrenched in their community. Having the opportunity to be pulled together based on the current landscape of the area they represent is actually an advantageous position to be coming from too. That said, I think the Easts bid represents the best of both worlds. It has an established connection with history as a Q-Cup/BRL club, but they are effectively reinventing themselves to compete at the national/professional level and become a team for the entire southside of Brisbane that bursts well-beyond their current patch of dirt. The fact that the ‘Easts’ name is gone, the Tigers logo will go and they will be playing games at Suncorp as opposed to Langlands Park means that they won’t be isolating themselves from fans of other Intrust Super Cup clubs that aren’t Broncos fans. A ‘Dolphins’ bid though will face more challenges on this front. I’ve actually got a good mate that used to play Q-Cup and he thinks that the Dolphins basically being the ‘Manly’ of the State League will make it very hard for them to connect with local Rugby League fans that aren’t already Dolphins supporters.

The 17th NRL team? There’s only one answer

And I’ll draw you back back to the original comment…. what an utterly absurd and baseless judgment for one to make. But unfortunately typical of someone of your woke political persuasion.

CA won't mention Australia Day to promote BBL games, and the Prime Minister has had a big whinge about it

I’d expect an article that is as out of place as this to attract many new and first-time posters. In any event, you’re going up an incredibly long inference ladder to pass such judgement.

CA won't mention Australia Day to promote BBL games, and the Prime Minister has had a big whinge about it

What an utterly absurd statement and a perfect snapshot of the substantial downfall that puts into question the legitimacy of your (I’d imagine; extreme) brand of politics. The left proclaim the value of ‘listening’ and having a ‘conversation’ to gain perspective and work towards positive and balanced outcomes- a worthy endeavor. But when challenged with thinking that doesn’t align to their own, there is no flex and they retort with labels and personal attacks that come off as irrational and hysterical. Yes, there are times when the other extreme side of the political spectrum presents a xenophobic view that deserves to be called out. But hissy-fits such as these do nothing but deplete the impact of those occasions.

CA won't mention Australia Day to promote BBL games, and the Prime Minister has had a big whinge about it

Someone’s trying build their portfolio for a gig at the Guardian Australia. If sport and politics collide- fine. But I’d suggest this article (delivered as a politically charged opinion piece) is diverting well beyond this sites core business and why people come here. Furthermore, if someone (who is paid to report on and give their opinion of sport) feels the need to express their political opinions on a sport site, then at least have the gall to put your name to it.

CA won't mention Australia Day to promote BBL games, and the Prime Minister has had a big whinge about it