Wallabies national training squad announced

Points all taken about Holmes, but in addition to his scrumming nous, which has ripened at age 29ish, he is Darling Diwns solid as a brickhouse and towards the end of super 12 was putting in some venomous hits in tackles. Maybe he was envisioning the selectors. Wallabies need some forwards to spark with the grit/anger of a finnegan and I don't care which position it comes from.

See you next Tuesday!

Or the year after that, if at all.

* Front rankers - I see. No probs. * The way I see it is that Deans has been in charge for a long time now, and yet he hasn't really expanded his propping group whatsoever, which is far from ideal. I get what you are saying re the midfield, but even occasional experimentation would have been pretty vital IMHO. * Ryan - if you're a coach of a side like Australia then you have to take punts on these guys, even if it's just getting them involved with the training squads.

Juts, Palmer got injured against the Blues - he was not injured after Scotland that I am aware of. Tilse only played ahead of Ryan after injury - isn't really a fair comparison though. Under the 22 man squad structure and with Robinson and Tilse both specialist LHP's, Ryan a specialist THP and Kepu able to play both sides. It means that regardless of form Ryan would be picked ahead of Tilse whenever he is fit. Happily with the 23 man squads coming in both the young guys will get plenty of game time next season and be able to mount a serious challenge to the Wallaby incumbents.

Apologies I only realised now that it said "front ra-N-kers" read it as ":rakers" eariler. I even copied and pasted it with the "N" so Im not sure how I missed it. I guess its a juggling act between being too loyal to incumbants and ruining combinations by swapping players all the time. The otherside of the spectrum is the centre combos deans has picked in his tenure, we are yet to find a settled combo as he used AAC, QC, Gits, Barnes, Mccabe, A Finger, Horne. Digby, harris and tapuai. Im not sure but I think palmer was injured after the scotland game, we were all surprised he didnt get a look in during the welsh series as he did well against the scots. Its hard to take a punt on ryan when the Tahs werent playing him even off the bench, for the majority of the year tilse was played ahead of him. And yeah robinson has had sub-standard form for the last two years but he did suffer two major injuries and hardly played in either 2010 and 2011. But l guess its just a matter of opinion but I firmly believe he is our best scrummaging LHP and has to start. Holmes should be in the training squad though, I agree with that.

* Front rankers, as in front rowers. * I agree re Daley, but IMO the front row is a microcosm of Dean's selection overall. He is very reluctant to look beyond the people he perceives as incumbents. * It's unfortunate re Palmer and Ryan, but why not play them against Wales off the bench? * Robinson IMO has been out of shape and out of form since around 2010, and the Tahs had an excellent scrum with Baxter. I don't think he isn't capable of good things, but he has been in that 1 jersey regardless of form.

Sorry but I thought this sentence "choosing unfit and out of form front rankers." was related to the hookers, was I wrong in my presumption? -Well I think any fair analysis of daley's performance in the green and gold would say that 3 tests was 3 too many. -Pek cowan has improved this year but was not of test quality standard in the past. Of the force front row I would like to see manu and longbottom get a go ahead of him. -Mafuu got significant game time in both 2010 and 11 and would also have got game time this year if not for injury but most aussie supporters dont rate him (I think his a good scrummager but lazy around the park) -Weekes got sin-binned and penalised of the park when he played for aus a against england a so im not surprised that he didnt get a test call up. - Palmer has not been considered due to injury, paddy ryan was brought into the squad but is now injured too -your right holmes has had a good year and his non-selection has been puzzling, but robinson still has been part of the best aus scrum and lets not forget that like QC he had an ACL operation last year. -Kepu was selected out of position last year when robinson was injured and deans had alexander at TH (silly move) but now that robinson is back kepu is at TH.

I would have thought my point was obvious: 'With a comparatively small playing base the one thing that you need to do as a coach is find alternatives.' The definition of stupidity/insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, which is basically what Deans has done. You listed two Daley who only got three Tests due to injury and was never seen again. Hardly a case of looking outside the box - so that's pretty easily dismissable. Laurie Weeks never gained a Test cap, so he is also pretty easily dismissable. Deans has basically remained true to the same players time and time again. Kepu has been selected out of position, as has Alexander, and when you consider how long Deans persisted with Baxter then it's pretty obvious that his record with front row selection is quite lamentable. I didn't suggest anything re Moore and TPN, so please don't misquote me. They're both very good players. I would start with Holmes and Palmer (if fit), with Kepu on the bench, and if not fit Holmes and Kepu. Robinson has regressed badly IMHO. Slipper is there for the future, but he also needs Test exposure. The point is players need to be tried at some juncture, which is what Connolly did.

Im not sure what ur point even is other than to bag deans, because Ive listed a number of props that he has selected and u dismiss them because they he hasnt continued to select them. Has it occurred to you that he hasn't continued to select them because they are not up-to scratch? Out of the four props that he usually selects the only one who doesnt deserve to be in the squad is alexander, robinson and kepu are part of the best front row combo in aus, and slipper has a lot of potential. And to suggest that he shouldnt be picking TPN and moore is ludicrous, they are head and shoulders above any other aus hooker whether fit or not. And anyway s. Faiinga and huia edmonds have both been given games in the no 2 jumper so your assertion is wrong there too. Just out of interest who would you select out of the available guys as your wallaby front row(noting that mafuu and palmer are injured)?

You're contradicting yourself now. Your initial statement was that Test forwards are the finished product: 'all the english forwards enter test rugby as the finished product. That is the same for most first choice test forwards regardless of age.' You totally ignored the premise that the majority of hall of famers (in the tight five) were far superior players toward the end of their career than they were in the beginning. Bench pressing has absolutely nothing to do with forward play. We are talking about running lines, angles of support, understanding when to commit to a ruck or maul etc. This comes with experience.

Robinson reached a peak around 09/10 and since then has been half the player. Daley and Ma'afu were only used to to injury against England as far as I recall, and Weekes has never been capped. Cowan has totally dropped off the radar too. There are five Australian sides, which means 10 starting props to choose from and then some replacements. Deans has persisted in picking players out of position and choosing unfit and out of form front rankers.

I have also been converted into a cummins fan, he has shone against the reds, tahs and brumbies despite playing in the most dysfunctional backline in aus.

Kind of agree with you guys, but he wont play (simmons, sharpe timani) and like Jez and others mention above th tight 5 need to play games to get better. Im happier seeing him play more club games. how many games do they actually play anyway. 16 regular season and 3 trials? I would think you would want those young players playing 30 games a year to develop.

I agree with many posters that Holmes should of been included. His stats for super rugby showed he was the best performed prop in general play. Add to that that he is probably the 2nd best LHP and is better than Alexander on both sides it is really hard to understand why he never got a look in. I also agree Pyle should of been retained, I would of had Simmons out, he is the new Mumm. Out of the players in the squad I would have Cummins at 13, if he doesnt get that sopt I would have him on the wing, of course Deans wont even have him in the 22. Dont forget Cummins played for the force who had a dreadful backline with very poor halves yet he still shone.

Im not sure thats entirely correct ben, whilst he has been loyal to alexander for some unknown reason robinson is there because he IS our best LHP. Kepu only became a regular in the team in 2011. In 2010 he used daley, weekes, slipper, mafuu and cowen too.

Yes, that's a fair point, but my point was that Connolly tried a plethora of players whereas Deans just continues with the status quo, which really isn't doing anybody any favours. Agree re: Vickerman and Elsom, but Vickerman seems immune to criticism.

only rate one player as a must pick for the wallabies from the reds yes.

The way you are all carrying on you'd think he'd left out Jonah Lomu.

from some Uk magazine? only the rugby world magzine ie the biggest selling rugby mag in the world! my point is it is ridiculous to use Holmes age 29 as a selection criteria. test match forwards may get better they nay not. but they don't gain selection unless they have their game squared away. i understand your idea that men get stronger as they age naturally. but we are talking about professional sportsman. those days are over. eg Digby Ioane and Will Genia were setting bench pressing standards when they were first starting out for australia.