Time to sink Waratahs Inc

Hi Sluggy, We did manage to touch on this at the get-together, although only fleetingly, I guess. No, I don't have a problem with SU per se, but to point out the terrible inequitiy between a club with no district, no junior system to speak of, an extremely narrow supporters base, as opposed to two western Sydney clubs in massive districts with huge player participation & fan base support, surviving on the smell of an oily rag. You did make the suggestion of well-heeled SU supporters also mentoring talent from the west. But wherever the resources come from, more needs to be done in the west. I thought this would be obvious to everyone it seems, except the people at the ARU & NSWRU.

I'm not at all bitter Sluggy. I'm a Woodie's supporter and have been for 50 years through thick and thin and they're the reigning premiers and now the minor premiers three years in a row, so why would I be bitter? But I am critical of the flawed structure of the Shute Shield when one club is given a leg-up by being allowed to offer something no other club with their limited resources can match. Even Eastwood, despite their success, is not a wealthy club but their success has been based on a strong district junior development program. Most of last years premiership winning side came through the district junior teams. They didn't buy a team to win the premiership. On the other hand Sydney University, despite their denials, does not have a district junior development program in the same way as the other district clubs, but poaches the best of the talent developed through these clubs . How many times do I have to say this? It is not a level playing field. My comments with regard to club rugby being run on an amateur basis, which I did qualify by suggesting it was probably wishful thinking, were based on the fact that without financial support from the ARU, many of the clubs will not survive whilst they have to pay their players to be competitive. As for Eastwood's plan to provide incentives to young athletes, they will just keep on doing what they have been doing, ie, providing a pathway for higher honours and being a bit old fashioned in promoting a culture of being proud to play for your district, something Sydney University could never do.

You sound quite bitter Charcoal. You effectively say we can't compete with Uni, so it should be removed from the competition. Could you advise us what Eastwood's plan is to provide incentives to the young athletes Sydney Uni attracts, develops, and go on to Super Rugby teams? While remaining amateur?

You're missing the point IW, even with the best will in the world, no other club can compete with what Sydney Uni offers by way of scholarships. A scholarship for a degree is worth far in excess of what any club could offer as a monetary incentive and this is what is sending a number of clubs to the wall in trying to compete. They just don't have the financial resources and sponsorship in trying to remain competitive. It is not a level playing field. The mere fact that Sydney Uni so dominates the competition across all grades and colts is testament to that. Ideally, club rugby should be strictly amateur in order to survive, but that is probably wishfull thinking. Nonetheless, it is still the foundation of the grass roots and everything should be done to ensure that it continues to prosper, but on an equal footing.

This is the issue Mick -I really think by all the circumstancial evidence I have seen in the whole history of the Waratahs franchise that 'name' players sign on to the waratahs to actually guarantee them entry level to the national team , any idea that they are joining the 'Tahs to win the Super comp is not even considered by the players or management seriously -oh yers they will put on a god 'show' for the first 20 minutes of each match but the evidence i've seen from season after season is that they are not in any way interested in both winning consistently and /or winning the comp as long as the gravy train to the Wallabies continues

I hope western Sydney joins Brumbies Rugby eventually just to see the difference in development levels they will get after being with the NSWRU.

Indeed. If SUFC actually pays players. Or starting a mentoring/career assistance program. Such as the one I understand Southern Districts have set up. Randwick like Sydney Uni has a foundation to support it. And so it goes.

Whats preventing other teams from paying players ? I mean, apart from indolence and incompetence.

There still is a SURLFC. Over the years it has worked its way down the ranks of the league comps, and now competes in a NSW tertiary institutions competition.

Sheek, you say - "I cannot accept SU attracting massive resources in funding & quality players, while potentially massive youth catchment areas like Parramatta, Penrith & Campbelltown are forced to fight for scraps. SU has only a small fan base outside its own constituency. It represents no suburb, no district, & can never, or is ever unlikely to, attract a huge fan base. " What do you suggest, that people who want to support the club with their private money be told they can't, and to keep it? ts that small fan base and constituency that provides the club with the resources it has (not poker machines), through the 'Friends' and 'Foundation' organisation, along with various sponsors. You can see all that disclosed in the 2011 report, at page 10ff. Google Sydney Uni football club 2011 annual report and see for yourself.

Charcoal, Or until other clubs start acting like professionals and getting a revenue base together,

Peeeko, they tried to cull Sydney Uni in the 80s as well - "they" being the Randwicks, Eastwoods, and the like who wanted the Students' best players in the 'district' clubs (or at least their colts sides). They wanted to go back to the 60s when only enrolled students played for the University, and on graduation they transferred to a district club. The same arguments were trotted out then as now about juniors. There were supporters in the media. I remember Evan Whitton referring in an 80s article to the SUFC being a 'rugby joke factory', although that may have been directed to the kicking game that was employed in the 70s at the club. I do still read Mr Whitton's columns in Justinian though, for the entertainment value. The oldest club's still there, winning premierships, and producing Wallabies. I am not sure what you see wrong with providing good development to young players, both in rugby, and career wise. I might just wear my 125th anniversary tie from 1988 to tomorrow. Come to think of it, they'll have to put out a 150th tie next year. As for former players moving into leadership positions in the hierarchy, you speak of people who have become high achievers in life after rugby, I am not sure why their playing history supports the conclusion that "they have entrenched Sydney Uni’s power and influence through all levels of Rugby in NSW." or "centralised control of the game by the one club". Its a rugby club, not a religious order or secret society.

Hi Nicki, Thanks for posting on the site - good to get some real facts from the inside, instead of opinions from the outside looking in. Is there a plan to ever get Super Rugby games outside of Sydney? Obviously not the marquee games, but maybe the 'lesser' ones, versus the Lions or something - I know the Reds have played in Townsville a couple of times in the last few years, and had (relative) success. Mick

As a Woodies' supporter (would you have guessed?), I think their success has still been against the odds as Sydney Uni so dominate the Shute Shield Competition that it is inevitable that sooner or later they will be on top again. They have won the Club Championship for most of the last decade and there would appear to be little prospect of any other club surpassing them in the foreseeable future. As I mentioned in my previous post, the Colts' competitiion is a farce as Sydney Uni cream off the best talent from the schools and the rest of the clubs pick up what's left.. They might as well just hand them the Colts' trophies before the season starts. We need a level playing field based on district clubs and that will never exist so long as Sydney University remains in the competition.

Please have a look at the Shute Shield Club Championship points table. Eastwood in 2nd place and not a scholarship in sight. The Woodies have also beaten Uni in their last 6 games.

Thanks Rickety, I did once you mentioned it. I had somehow missed it previously. Well, it was good to get the perspective of the NSWRU. I don't know if Nicki is a male or female, but in any case I'll give him/her the benefit of the doubt for the moment. NSWRU obviously believe they're getting out & about, & perhaps they are. But there are also many people unhappy with the level of interaction & commitment from the unions.

"But perhaps that’s the problem. These unions don’t really care about the world outside of their tight, little enclaves"….. Me thinks that this is the nub of the problem. Sheek you are correct with assumption re Brisbane. I, like you and Rickety are not anti University as a rugby club. But as in both states it is just that there is inequities in the system.

I have two young boys playing junior rugby in Brisbane cost $450 for the season for the two of them to play. Apparently a fair bit of that is kicked upstairs to the ARU so with 14,000 juniors in Qld the money they invest is pretty much coming from the players rather than any great debeloment funds from the ARU. They also play league, that costs $70 per season per player, more games and they get a free pair of shorts. Like the thoughts of Rob above lighten up the S15 squads and have the club comps as the selection base. Also give the Rebels & Force a chance to recruit from Brisbane & Sydney comps as God knows they will need all the help they can get if the Australian conference of the S15 is going to be taken seriously.