A miserable win for Wallabies over Pumas

Miserable? Perhaps. Yes it was the Pumas, but they've shown they can nearly topple the Springboks and All Blacks, so the fact that the injury-ravaged Wallabies managed to limp over the line against them, coming from 19-6 down to win shows great character for a squad that wasn't meant to be. Miserable? Not really, is it?

Australian rugby averages 19,348 people per game. rugby league averages 17,152, AFL averages 32,206 (according to wikepedia football crowds). This year rugby crowds are up seven percent (according to a roar article). Just a quick look on green and gold states that juniors playing rugby has hit record highs in WA, QLD and SA. I could not quickly find NSW so my apologies. These are facts We are getting a bad run from channel 9 with coverage. Rugby could have done more after the 2003 world cup to build the game. These are facts Rugby could do with more growth. This is a fact (every sport could) Rugby has a public relations problem with its own fans being its worst and harshest critics. This sadly is a fact too. The figures don't match many fans negativity. I believe many rugby journalists have a vested interest in finding negatives and we read them and some people by into the negativity. Rugby is growing and in good shape. Its in better shape than previous years. More people are playing rugby than on

Fair enough. Good points.

Think you guys are missing the point. This is not about me trashing Aussie rugby, or about the IRB rankings. Rugby is up against against stiff competition for audiences and relying on the tragic’s / ex private school types alone to continue to support the game at the national level is not going to grow the sport, or even maintain its relevance. The excellent series ‘Rugby in the 70’s’ illustrated this problem very well. Rugby is entertaining - thus needs to be entertaining. If you shell out $200 to take your two kids to see a game at ANZ stadium, you are really expecting that you will all enjoy it. Otherwise you probably won’t repeat the experience. We have not invested the largess of the 2003 RWC well; you are correct Binks in saying that we need an additional competition between club and Super Rugby - this was tried a few years back (went to a couple of games at Ballymore - were brilliant) and unfortunately failed. I think that a new approach is required. Greater investment in country rugby, more scholarships for prospective talent, perhaps an expanded US 'Colleges' style competition might be other ideas. As you are aware these are only paid for by sponsorship, which in turn is driven by audience numbers, on TV and at the games. All of which is not aided by a poorly performing Wallabies side. I dont see myself so much as hysterical, but frustrated, and I know that I am not alone. We could be doing a lot better with the cattle / dollars we have and we could be working harder at the elite level to make rugby a real alternative for a wider audience. To say that we are 'Not in a bad position' I think is denying the degree of negativity out there that is associated with brand Wallaby. And PS. What is with 'The Qantas Wallabies?'. Would we ever see the 'Steinlager All Blacks'? Come on...

Monx Trolling:) my daughter uses that word:) you can bang on about rubbish. The wallabies can cover themselves quite well. We are ranked second in the world, have won 13 of our last 18 games. We won third spot in the world cup and and the tri nations last year. The world has changed. There is not a big divide between the rest of the world and the "big three". But cover themselves in glory? where did you get that from? There is always room for improvement in any team. You are being hysterical about Australian rugby. We have an entire second wallabies squad out injured. We have no stability in the line up essentially due to injuries. But we are winning a lot of close games, which I like. We need another level of rugby between super rugby and club level and I believe this would halt the unprecedented level of injuries we are suffering. But to be honest I don't think its in to bad a position. Get a grip mate. Maybe rugby has changed? or maybe your a doom and gloom sorta fella?

"Let me guess, if I’d said ‘black’ you would have said ‘white’?" Why would you think that – Because I had the temerity to actually disagree with you on a particular point? "The simple observation is that as the second ranked nation in the world, expectations are that they are relatively consistent and perform to a high standard." That is your expectation. I think mine are more realistic, but suit yourself. "And if you honestly think that the last brace of games against the Puma’s, AB’s, SAF, Wales and Scotland have seen the Wallabies cover themselves in glory?" Who said they did? "They are not the best side with the greatest players – simple fact." Who said they were? "Good lord; wasn’t looking for a Troll, but in Binks I have found one." I think that is going a bit far. Binks and you obviously disagree, heatedly, but I haven't seen anything from either of you that I would call "trolling"

Bink, good post, but on one point: "Deans has said many times that he does not believe him ready to defend that [No 12] channel" I am still scratching my head as to where Deans has said this at all! Obviously I can't remember every single public pronouncement or comment that Deans has made, but I can't remember him ever commenting on JOC's defence, let alone WRT the No 12 channel. Perhaps someone can help out with this? I do remember the following comment by Deans about O'Connor, but this was in late 2011 when Deans obviously wanted to use him at No 10, and there's nothing in there about defence: “His stated preference is 12 but you find over time that players let go of their individual preference and ideally start to think of what is in the best interests of the group and team,” Deans said. “He is of great value where ever he is, so it does not matter in the long run but he is capable of mastering both (inside centre and five-eighth).” Nary a hint that Deans had any issue with JOC's defence at 12.

Good lord; wasn't looking for a Troll, but in Binks I have found one. Yet another apologist leaping on board the trendy wave of uneducated commentary! Yes, I am blaming the coach for those losses; ultimately, he is the one accountable. He is paid in the position of coach; is that not clear to you? Scheduling be damned - 'forced to play a B team'? Really? Was he forced not to use the bench? Forced not to play Scotland inside with grubbing kicks to force errors in appalling conditions? Forced Barnes to try for a field goal with 25 minutes to play, advertising our desperation and lack of a plan to a confident opposition playing in conditions that suited them? Was he forced to do nothing when the Irish ambushed us in 2011 and he failed to use the bench until the 75th minute? Was he forced to not select Dom Shipperley even though he was the form winger of the Aussie conference? Ok, so passionate I may be - but I have every right to make comment - as do you Binks. So keep on message and drop the Trolling value judgements.

monx you are a simple lad who is a touch hysterical. You are blaming the coach for the losses to Samoa and Scotland, when it was clearly going to happen when the ARU scheduled the match so Deans was forced to field B teams, and in scotlands case only had 1 training session together? Do us all a favour and become a league supporter and stop carrying on like a martyr.

The Wallabies apologists are out in force now, eh Mike? Let me guess, if I'd said 'black' you would have said 'white'? The simple observation is that as the second ranked nation in the world, expectations are that they are relatively consistent and perform to a high standard. And if you honestly think that the last brace of games against the Puma's, AB's, SAF, Wales and Scotland have seen the Wallabies cover themselves in glory? They are not the best side with the greatest players – simple fact. They do not pick the best sides nor do they settle on a firm 15 and allow it to develop. They are lacking confidence, are making poor judgement calls (particularly around the base of the ruck and in the backline) and failing to execute at critical times. The coach is not demonstrating that he can adapt a game plan to meet changing conditions. At times he does not seem to show enough respect for some sides (Ireland, Scotland, Samoa), but too much to others (AB's), playing into the hands of both sets of opponents. We should be able to enjoy watching a team attempt expansive and entertaining running rugby - not every test, cause that is the joy of the game they play in heaven - no two games are ever alike - but enough for diehard fans like be to be proud of the fact that they are a side that opponents respect. Nor do I ever expect us to win every time out. But we should trouble quality opponents with the quality and unpredictability of our attack, the power of our forward play; not just solid defence. And to paraphrase Sun-Tzu, ‘the best defence is often a good offense’. The Reds learned that in 2011 (and the later half of 2012), as did the rest of the Super Rugby competition that year. How positive was that to watch? And what a spectacle it made!

Beale and JOC where also out for good chunks of the season, I was just pointing out that the super 15 stats are a touch flawed. Do us all a favour though, please don't let the secret that Barnes can't tackle get out or teams will target him like they do Quade!!!

JoC and Beale who played for a team that went a lot worse than Tahs had similar stats to Barnes. So that adds little to any argument that Barnes is a better tackler. He USED to be but ever since all his migraines his game in aspects except goalkicking has gone downhill.

PeterK, I am not taking sides, but your stats may be a bit flawed. If you look at the defensive systems around the players, they are different. If the man inside you or outside you is letting you down defensively you will miss tackles. The waratahs didnt have the best season.

Lets put some FACTS into these tackling myths. In this super season Cooper made 22 tackles missed 5, a success rate of 81% Barnes made 106 missed 27 , a success rate of 80% JoC made 64 missed 18, a success rate of 78% Beale made 56 missed 20, a success rate of 74% Wow REALLY shows how Barnes is such a better tackler, NOT - Yet another myth

Barnes is well known for his defence. He is a solid defender (he learned tackling Shane Webke). JOC has made it known he wants the 12 jersey. Deans has said many times that he does not believe him ready to defend that channel but he looks the goods now as a 10, especially now cooper is on the way out. Funny thing x factor players are being talked about. Bret Mckay interviewed deans and they discussed x factor players and i just stumbled across it. if you have not seen it, it is interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHnviP35CAI

Hmmm, its pretty obvious that you can't remember it! "try hards with little rugby knowledge" - yes, yes, go back to your x-box and shoot bad guys :)

Nick and Mike. If you cannot recall Deans saying O'Connor was not ready to defend the inside channel at 12 over the last couple of years then you have wax in your ears or memory rocks in your brains. Probably the later. And Nick try misses on Muiliana and numerous misses at super level. I stand by my statement that Barnes has far fewer misses than O'Connor defensively and a couple of try hards with limited rugby knowledge wont change that.

Mick-e, Either you... 1. Are related to Barnes 2. Had an altercation with O'Connor or.. 3. You haven't watched every Wallabies game for the past 5 years I suspect it's no 3 as if you ask someone with intellect and a close observer of the Wallabies they will agree JOC is a v.good defender. I noticed you couldn't give me any SPECIFIC examples at TEST level of him missing tackles. He has a combative defensive technique that make him a powerful centre despite his size. I appreciate Berrick's defence, general kicking (although it's been off recently), commitment under the high ball and his attitude and way he values the Wallaby jersey BUT I don't think he's threatening enough in attack for us to beat the All Blacks, that's the bottom line.

"O’Connor has missed vital tackles in test matches" As has every single test rugby player in the world - so what? "there is no way his defence is as strong as Barnes" O'Connor's defence is rarely criticised by anyone with a smidgin of nous. Whereas Berrick has had some real issues in that area. If you are going to defend Berrick there are plenty of bases on which to do it - but coming up with some bizarre argument that his defence is clearly better than O'Connor's when that is one of his most identified weak points is not the way to do it. "Deans himself has been saying for several years that he is not ready to defend an inside channel against the likes of Nonu and Sonny Bill" Oh really - for years? When did Deans say that? Let's start with just one occasion, then move on from there.

Should also be fun to watch. Which it is not and has not been for some time. I get that the negative commentry is all a bit droll, however the fact of the matter is that Aussie rugby has been in the doldrums for some time. We (the passionate rugby supporters) just want to see rugby that we can be proud of!