Benji, what would Dally M do?

I take it you don't live in NZ Oikee, When you do come over you will find a Kiwi by the name of Quade Cooper has a bigger profile in NZ than Benji Marshall and Benji/SBW are well ahead of any other Kiwi/Warriors rugby league player in NZ. Johnson is more famous in NSW and QLD than he is in NZ.

I live in Japan and I haven't heard anything here about Benji or anyone else from league coming here to play rugby. Most Japanese don't know what league is. Many don't care about union. I think they bought SBW to try to promote the RWC here in 2019, but it hasn't really worked. A lot of people still don't know that the RWC is coming here. I'd be very very surprised if any more monster contracts like SBW's are handed out to overseas players. League players are well known in NSW, QLD, some of NZ and England (maybe PNG too, but I don't know), but are basically just regular people to the rest of the world. I think this is just a stir up to try to get more money by Benji's manager. I don't think anyone really needs to worry. Most league players want to play league and union players want to play union. But I think all contracts should be honoured and Benji or anyone else should do what his boss says.

You are probably right, but if players wanted to do that their players association would not be able to stop the NRL clubs and media entities when they say, "we want more games". Because the only arguement against that was the safety of the players because they play too much football. So I don't see how the RLPA can negotiate anything with the ARLC along the lines of let the players go play o/s in the off season and stop the drive for a 30 round season. And the RLPA won't have the support of their member base to promote that becaus eonly a handful of players would benefit from playing o/s in an off season. And if Benji wants to do that, that is a lot of short contracts, and short contracts don't offer financial security, which is pretty important when your body is your tool for income.. So take your pick.

I think he will too. The article isn't really about Benji. I've just used him to personalize the subject. Interestingly two former Brumbies coaching who are in Japan, Eddie Jones and Andy Friend, said that Japanese clubs are unlikely to sign players from the NRL on large money for one season. Firstly it's not worth it (unless it was GI, Cameron Smith or Slater) but that Japanese rugby is about loyalty and what you can give to the company and the team. Not sure how SBW's contract fits in with that, perhaps times are a changing.

Sorry Tommy, I probably wasn't as clear as I perhaps could have been. The Split in England wasn't so much about the Northern Clubs wanting to get rich, it was about power. The Northern players were better than the Southern players and from my understanding the South felt the balance of power was shifting to the North. It was a jostle between the two regions in England. In Australia it was different, in my opinion. There was certainly discontent amongst the Clubs and players in NSW because of the profits the NSWRU were making, but was RL enevitable in Australia? I don't know, but it was brought about because of a group of enterprising individuals led by James Giltinan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_J_Giltinan. He wasn't really interested in the players or rugby for that matter, he was an entrepreneur interested in making money and he saw the opportunity to do so with RL. He later started started a break away league in Sydney sailing as well. In my view, his actions were not that different to Murdoch with his attempt with Super League.

MAJB, you raise really good points however I'm not suggesting there is a weakness in the current contracts and it wasn't my intention to suggest there was a partial legal obligation for players to remain in Rugby during the schism. What perhaps I haven't conveyed is that we look back on the RFU's actions in the late 19th Century as been stubborn. We don't have a genuine understanding of the thoughts of those during those times and what amateurism really meant to those involved. But I would hazard a guess it was extremely important. Those on the rugby union side believed it would corrupt the game and bring its undoing. The consequences to those who didn't obey amateurism rules were that they were banned from the game. For some that was a pretty serious threat because the game was part of their social and family life. We look back from a modern view point and point out the professionalism probably wouldn't have caused undoing, in fact Rugby League grew strongly in England and Australia on the back of professionalism. Most us would say that amateurism in rugby is a noble but antiquated belief., but that's our thoughts based in 21st century thinking. Today we look at the contracting system and the salary cap and say that they are critical for the survival of the game, but are they? I would say that they are, but that's my 21st century view point. Will those in the future look back on the adherence to contracts and salary caps as being noble but antiquated. Yes a contract is a legal obligation in today's society but who knows how will be it viewed in sport in the future? Possibly the same as today's, but this is just a philosophical discussion. Perhaps the ARLC (or any other football ruling bode for that matter) decision to stop Code hopping and impose a salary cap will be viewed as short sighted and stubborn. Just a thought.

Oikee, I tend to agree with you that the ARLC has to stand firm on the salary cap, but not because I think it will create Super Clubs that will dominate. The salary cap is currently in play but for the most part there are the usual clubs languishing at the bottom and the finalists are there pretty much there each year. The cap doesn't really provide a level playing field from a performance perspective, however what it does do and I think this is more important is stop an arms race and clubs going broke by spending too much to create super teams.

Thanks CC, that was the intention of the article (provoke thought). As you have said the ARLC will increase the salary cap so most discussion on moonlighting will probably soon be pointless. As the players union is currently in discussion with the ARLC I wonder if these discussions are a ploy to push the salary cap further than where the negotiations are currently at.

Benji will stay at the west tigers i think

Its been a few years since I studied contract law and restraint of trade (whcih coincidently has the Tutty v NSWRL as the benchmark precedent) but I dont believe its a restraint of trade if the player is already gainly employed by a party .. thats not so much as restricting the employer from earning a living, but protecting ones interests that you're paying for! There is many many employee contracts which do not allow their employees to hold second jobs whilst still contracted in their primary role; if it was such a restraint I'm sure it'd have been tested by now. As has been pointed out, if Benji or any other player was NOT under an NRL contract, then yes, they could rightfully do what they want ... but do you really think NRL clubs would sign players to season only contracts (thus providing a get out clause over the off season) only to re-sign them again the next season in order to allow the player to earn more. It sounds like a sweet deal on the surface, but would there be any binding contractual agreement for the player to return to the same club - or sell their sole to the higherst bidder on their return (sound familiar??). if yes, then technically they'd still be under an NRL contract and this point is mute, if no, how many clubs would be willing to take the risk??

The ARLC with some top line business people on board, are hardly going to ignore legal advice. Chosen to ignore!!!,sure the new admin loves the idea of litigation.Sheesh.

"Indeed the NRL is becoming more like the dinosaurs that once controlled Union." I don’t think those dinosaurs have left, otherwise Rugby would have evolved and not got bogged down into 14 plus 1 man rugby that is blighting test Rugby. The recent changes introduced are a half hearted attempt to address a real problem in the convoluted Rugby rules and the changes were driven by the Southern Hemisphere. The Norternh Hemisphere (should say home Unions) did not want these changes. The dinosaurs are still there lurking in their corrupt little world just waiting to take over again, if the new rule changes fail. As for the NRL, this body adopts change to easily ,so I can’t see the dinosaur analogy for League. Too much change is just as bad as too little.

Everyone can be replaced. These 2 guys are not even playing for a NZ team. You seem to make out the Warriors dont even exist. Conrad Hurrell and Shane Johnson are the next 2 big superstars. These are the players that rugby league have to make sure are treated right. Sonny will probably end up back in union, Benji as i have mentioned recently, will have a huge role to fill in the NRL. he will become the face for NZ hopefully. The new Ambassador's for rugby league are being well choosen. Hasem, Hindmarsh and Petro are carefully selected, huge names in their choosen areas, i can see Benji as that type of role for NZ. You would be mad not to use him, and it has probably already been talked about. Rugby leagues golden era is about to start now. We have all the cannons loaded, we just need someone to light the fuse. As i have said all along, we wont be taking any prisoners, and why should we. Our code has taken everything thrown at it over the last 100 years. Now its our turn to shock and awe as the yanks would say.

Actually Okie, plenty of people will care about Benji when he leaves, as they did SBW. They're called Kiwis, and a fair few of em are League fans also. NZ is not a market to be scoffed at and without those 2 players the league profile in NZ would be half of what it currently is. One day two players will come along who will give league the same type of profile in NZ, but not as easily replaceable as you make out. SBW coming back to the NRL is a huge bonus for the league profile in NZ now that he was an established All Black. Benji would be the highest profile NRL player NZ have ever had. To casually dismiss both would be folly. Also consider the fact that Benjis role in NZ league and the NRLs presence in NZ will not end with his playing career. I don't think he really wants to go to Japan, he just wants more money. Give it to him, make him happy. The money is there now.

The truth of the matter was that it was never really about the players. It was about power. The north versus the south in England and an enterprising group in Australia who saw an opportunity to make money. Can you elaborate on this p.Tah? Who made money or attempted to make money from the NSWRL? I doubt the owners of RU clubs in England started an English RFL where they had to share income with players! They would have been better off staying in RU where the players were the club's free unpaid labor! Many top RL players went to England for the money from English clubs but Dally Messenger wasn't one of them. I think FA soccer clubs even offered him deals. So we know money wasn't always his motivator. As an old Bears fan I know from reading & talking to Andrew Moore, Ian Heads, Sean Fagan & others that our star Jimmy Devereux went to & from Hull every year playing with Norths in our winter & then Hull in our summer. See "Jimmy Devereux’s Yorkshire Pudding" story http://www.tombrock.com.au/publications/ As a Bears fan I admit a twisted view on all things NRL but at the moment I have no sympathy for the situation they are now in. The game has killed all sense of loyalty.

Yes, you are right, but if you read my post you would see that our code has to close this loop-hole with a "duty of care" contract, and extend all contracts to a whole year. So your contract might go from 1st december to 1st december if you sign on. This will get rid of any notion of the Sonny Bill's or Benji's rtrying to exploit loopholes. Ask a lawyer, he would probably say the same thing. Rules can be changed at any time to stop this nonsense, this sheer folly as i call it. Once it becomes folly, you know that is the end of it. Bring in the heavy hitters, our game is not some cashcow for any tom dick or harry, our game is to help everyone across the board, not just the out to exploit mob. Benji can go then after his contract expires. Plenty of kids to replace him, no one, and i mean no one is er-replaceable. Benji might also find he has trouble coming back on time for a NRL season, if he is still playing Japanese Rugby union come 1st December, he wont be able to sign a league contract. Be careful what they wish for, he might even end up having to learn Fre3nch, for his stint in that league. Again, nobody cares about Benji once he leaves OZ, Australians want their own leagues, not some obsquitre nonsense half a world away, how is that supporting our codes. Sheer folly again.l

So do Chinese companies. Japan does not rule the roost as once they did. If Japan gets out of hand then it is just as easy to introduce the same into the NRL. I know who would win that war. Thurston and Marshal are both on over 1 million. The accual pay packets might say 700 thousand, but with third party and origin internationals, they are well over the 1 million, and that is before the NRL pay system will go close to doubling over the next 5 years. If the NRL got rid of the cap, companies could pay the players what they like, as do the Japanese, which is plain wrong and Australia needs to hang onto the best contests, not have a obsquire country take over the top leagues. Japan is a blight on the codes if anything.

This comment from p.Tah has troubled me because it assumes a premise that there is an intrinsic weakness in the contracts signed by League players. The comment also assumes that prior to the advent of professional Rugby that there was a partially legal obligation for Rugby players to remain with Rugby. When I worked for Colgate I was contracted to work for Colgate at no stage could I continue my work at Colgate whilst moonlighting for their competitor. When I was in the Australian Army I could not dawdle off and fight a war for another organisation, in spite of the money being offer by mercenary agents. It seems to me that the contractual obligations built into current League contracts are fairly tight and that any Player needs permission of his contracted employer to work for another organisation. This is not restraint of trade. When Marshall tried to this several years ago he tried the restraint of trade card and very quickly withdrew when his contract was examined in detail. Prior to the professionalization of Rugby all players were free agents and if they chose to could play another sport. In the 1960’s there were several professional cricketers and squash players playing Rugby, without comment. I played Rugby with a couple of English migrant, who we later found out were first division soccer professionals in their better days. Not one comment was made by the administrators. However, there has always been discrimination against those who played League, even though I did play Rugby with blokes who then played league on Sunday. Apart from Williams I do not recall any great angst when Rogers, Reid, Turquiri and Carne came over to Rugby. Personally, I do not see any problem with Marshall making extra money in Japan. However, I can understand Leagues position considering it is under siege from the AFL and now Rugby “7”. I think that this is where the League must be seeing it greatest threat, losing its stars to an Olympic sport.

Players already complain that the season is too long. But hey, all of a sudden now were talking about them playing in the of season too. I this were to happen no doubt at all this would affect league in the way the end of season test would see alot of players "unavailable". Alot of players in the off season have surgery to fix the injuries sustained in the long and taxing season. Not to mention the lack of pre season training as a team would see the first month or so of the season a deadset joke and teams would just be trying to find there feet. I know years ago players would play overseas in the off season but the game has moved forward too much and the level of footy needed to play to not only win but to satisfy the fans is much higher

I don't think any NRL players are on a million dollar oikee and Japanese companies have the money and can do what they like with it.