Why rugby union must innovate or die: Part II

Agreed Greg, it IS a two way street. It has to be that way. Im not going to get in to the who owes what to whom and how much and why debate though. We got to get past that low level of debate. We were arguing those thing in the '70s & '80s. We've agreed as nations that we have to find ways forward not look back at what's stoppig us. Ands a major power, I get nothin from belittling ohers less fortunate than ourselves - Aussies excepted. Im proud of the NZRU for how it supports Pasifika rugby development. Im rapt to see , Pasifika nations, playing fantastic rugby in the super rugby competition, and then to come together on a rugby field and smash Deano's Wallabies and other national sides. And im proud to be here in Aussie and talk positivelyabout our contributions fo our close neighbours. In return our own game has been enriched. i wold lke to think that us Kiwis understand that our game is very strong and we have the talent and depth to continue to be viable at the top part of world rugby for quite some time to come and we do have resources to share with our close historical Poynesian neighbours. I feel that this may not change things for you initially Greg, probably because you live in the biggest Polynesian capital in the world

I already post before that the irb needs to change for the good of the sport. The IRB have only ever deal with real money from 1987 after the first RWC so its a very young organisation in a business sense. The IRB will eventually change its just the matter of when. I have not come up with any corruption ever in the IRB but if your talking about the voting for RWC host nations that's very much out of their hands and into the hands of the voting unions.

Ra, of course, being from South Auckland i can appreciate more than most what pacific islanders have done for our country and rugby teams, but i do get frustrated when people pretend it is not a two way street. If it werent for NZ, Samoa, Fiji etc may well be just another island backwater no one (especially the rugby world) has ever heard of. Neaun, im not even going to respond to your laughable post, but i will say that we were the best rugby nation on earth before the polynesian influence, just as we are with it. If your born and raised in NZ, you are a kiwi. If you have learnt all your rugby skills in NZ after benefiting from our systems and coaches, you should play for NZ. This is what 17 players (New Zealanders with varying amounts of Samoan blood) did when they played for Samoa in the RWC. And im all for it, love seeing them smash over the home nations.

Greg you have a narrow eurocentric view of the big picture relationship between Aotearoa NZ and the people of the Pasifika Nations. If we stay in the now and look at our present relationship with the Island Nations, we could easily reach that popular misconception you offered which our relations in northern hemisphere countries love to use to try to divide and continue their governance of us down here in their far reaching colonies. Get rid of that view point if you do not want to give the four "home nations" more power than they need. You are not giving a full and proper picture either Neuen. Let me state the obvious and mention the blood relationships between our countries as polynesian people. When we spent time together, we recognise our cultural and linguistic similarities that pre-date European arrival. We can talk about the dependent state arrangement of Samoa the British government handed down to the NZ Government, but there are strong elements of colonial governance that most of us today are not proud of. NZ Government looked to the Pasifika for cheap labour in the 1960s and 1970s industrial boom era, then tried to drive them back out again at the time of collapse in the 1980s. Professional rugby gave the Island Nations the big break in rugby, and in the 1990s Ron Don era a cry exuded from some in Kiwi rugby circles at the "browning of the All Blacks". Players were given the option of playing for NZ or playing for their Island Homes. There are lots of reasons why they opted either way, and both countries are the richer for decisions made. Our countries were privillaged to have had great players like Michael Jones, Pat Lam, Inga Tuigamala and many others in our representative colours. NZ rugby did not do a lot for Island rugby for a long time. Their rankings placed them up against the Maori All Blacks. Great from a cultural view point, but in latter years were cries of wanting more respect as sovereign nations to play their top teams against the top teams of other sovereign nations. Pay tribute to the present NZRU president Bryan Williams for the upward trend of support for Island rugby. The great BG Williams coached Auckland during their heydays and I remember him going back to give something back to his Island Nations. Williams went back to share his vast experience as a world class All Blacks rugby great with his Samoan people, and his status as a lawyer and former player to support the plea to the NZRU to do more to support Island rugby. The NZRU has answered that plea and has been able to negotiate the political sludge from Northern Hemisphere knockers and from knockers back home over the past 20 years to support rugby development in the Island Nations. We are both richer for that continued close relationship as rugby nations with our Pasifika neighbours. We are aware of how Mother England cut us adrift to join the ECC back in the late 1960s-early 1970s, and when any of the Island Nations teams beat any other international rugby side in the world, like the latest wins over the Welsh and the Scots on the northern hemisphere tours, then as a nation, we all rejoice too - except when they beat us, such is our relationship with our close Pasifika neighbours and cousins.

Thanks Neuen, we appreciate others telling us who we are, we spent 200 years being told. Now we prefer that we decide our identity and our relationships ourselves.

haha that is so wrong. NZ rugby would be nowhere if it wasn't for Pacific Islanders giving their contribution. People from Pacific Island backgrounds do not care about a country but care more about their culture. Altough they might be born in NZ they are raised according to their culture Samoan etc etc. Then everyone forget that these kids epsecially Samoan even born in NZ their culture states that they belong to their tribe or village. That is why you will find they are born in NZ but then go live with a aunty or grandad in the Pacific Islands till they old enough to go to school. Then these kids do not want to play for NZ because they were born there but due to the fact that their role models or heroes played for them. After all role models play a big role in their lives. Michael Jones was the reason for thousands of Pacific Islands kids wanting to play for NZ. NZ have identified this ages ago and that is why you will always find these superstar from a pacific island background in the team. They are there to keep them wanting to play for NZ and not one of the other Pacific Islands team. Those who do not make it go aand represent the pacific islands nations. But NZ have the cream of the crop to choose from. Luckily for Samoa guys like Brain Lima played for Samoa which made some of the kids wanting to play for Samoa and NZ. So its a very clever ploy and taking credit for something that they did not do. Its the other way around they could hide it easily because of most people lack of understanding of the cultures of the Pacific Islands.

People from Pacific Islands and the Moari's are two different identities

Mr Taylor, As klestical demonstrates, in outlining the very dubious voting system that is designed to keep those in power, entrenched, there is considerably much wrong with the IRB. The IRB has become a corrupt body and from your reply I suspect that you may well be member of that corrupt organisation. Make no mistake the IRB will be exposed as was the IOC and more recently FIFA. I don’t anything about problem with the international League board as it is not my sport, so why did you throw in that furphy. Are you trying to distract from the real issue of another international sporting body being corrupted by those elected to it?

Good stuff Geoff, good to hear your boy is enjoying his footie back home. Your boy must have a bit of straight line pace. Some big boys over 6' 3" have played out wide, the Iro brothers, big Mal, McCrackin, Kirwan, Joe Roff, Jonah and SBW to name a few

Games are decide by referees interpretation at the break down. Don't anyone find the lack of transparency disturbing?

Nothing wrong with the IRB MAJB, I was also dining and drinking with some of the IRB delegates who happens to be from Samoa, Kenya, Fiji, Canda and Ireland. They are not from the home union like you and others make out to be. Most of the IRB are made up of members from 120 countries. A frined of mine who is a Samoa woman is also a IRB delegate. The IRB have been great for the sport and have invest money from RWC wisely. I know many rugby league fans aren't happy with the international rugby league federation.

Great article Part II, I fully agree, the IRB needs to become totally democratic - one country, one vote. The organisation has made great strides over the past decade, and the momentum for change must continue. There's too much voting power in the Home Unions.

Wouldn't you have the likes of McCaw playing for Scotland if you did that? Many players would qualify for the home nations if it were on ethnicity. People need to learn that ethnicity is different to nationality - players are actually lucky to qualify for another nation based on ethnicity - especially when they were born and raised in another country. Fact is the likes of Samoa would not be any where near the team they are today if it weren't for NZ giving them the majority of there players.

Mr Taylor, There are those who are suggesting that IRB is starting to behave in a manner similar to the IOC prior to the revelations made on vote rigging, buy etc. I saw, first hand, the absolute arrogance and vile behaviour, by some of the IRB delegates in my hotel in Auckland during the World Cup. The petty snobbery and other affectations made Tindal’s indiscretions seem minor. I was surprised that none of this pigishness reached the press. My friends and family from the UK tell me that this is nothing unusual. The question is should a great superior sport, such as Rugby Union, be represented by a body that is progressively becoming further corrupt. The IRB needs to be cleaned out from top to bottom and re-constituted and this needs to happen before the media start to drive it.

Sixaclock, I don't want to fan the flames of the fire that the article started in your kitchen, but I have to say, you took a cheap shot at the writer. And it is quite ironic that you take it upon yourself to pontificate about the 'undergraduate' style of the piece, before you launch into a couple of primary school grammatical errors/misprints. And another thing, I wish you and others could leave their political prejudices at the door. We get that you don't rate mr Arbib. Irrelevant to the article. Back to my humble undergraduate studies in logic and argument. Error of logic 'attacking the source' Your dismissal of Arbib does not have any necessary connection with the veracity or accuracy of his report. Perhaps your anger at reading the 'Arbib' word has clouded your judgement and misdirected your pen.

The ITM Cup showed how it can be done (using clever rule changes). Tell all the No 10s to pass the ball, not kick it, and don't be afraid to run it from anywhere.

Stop on Chris, there is nothing wrong with the game of rugby and I agree that some rules needs adjusting. Those who implied that rugby is dying are mainly not rugby fans but supporters of the other football codes.

I just saw there is another person with the same name as me so I have changed mine. hehe This was my comment ... Rugby may be struggling in Australia but this is not the case everywhere. It is played in far too many countries for it to die. It wouldn’t need to change a single thing and it would still be around in a very long time. I agree that there are many changes possible that would create a better spectacle but that is a separate issue and certainly doesn’t imply the sport’s demise should they not take place.

Rugby may be struggling in Australia but this is not the case everywhere. It is played in far too many countries for it to die. It wouldn't need to change a single thing and it would still be around in a very long time. I agree that there are many changes possible that would create a better spectacle but that is a separate issue and certainly doesn't imply the sport's demise should they not take place.

Hear, hear - I further propose that the Institue should form at Stellenbosch University and should involve the likes of former Chairman and IRB Council Member Bill Nolan; IRB Development Manager Bruce Cook; former World Cup winning Wallaby coach Rod Macqueen; former Springbok coach Ian McIntosh; former Scottish coach Richie Dixon; former French player, coach and former IRB Regional Development Manager Pierre Villepreux; former All Black captain and Wellington coach Graham Mourie and the former IRB Referee Manager Paddy O'Brien. I'm sure a group like this could come up with a set of rule changes to deliver the positive play klestical seeks.