Immediately after Brisbane claimed their third consecutive premiership in 2003, Anthony Hudson proclaimed that they had become “the greatest side of the modern era”. Robert Walls, who had seen some mighty sides in his time, declared them to be “the best team that I’ve seen”.
Only six years later, Geelong won their second premiership in three years and the commentators announced: “They are one of the greatest teams of all time”.
It’s probably just idle speculation comparing teams who never played each other (also, the rapid evolution of the game meant these two sides – who played in the same decade – were essentially from different eras), but who were the greatest: the Lions of 2001-03, or Geelong of 2007-09?
If greatness is measured by premierships then you would have to give it to the Lions. Premierships are difficult to win.
Even with all the talent and experience in the world, the greatest coaches and the best facilities, it seems fate and luck still have a big influence. If you can overcome what is out of your control and manage to win three on the trot, you deserve the label of ‘great’.
On paper, it’s cruel for the Cats.
In the future, to someone looking at the list of premiers, Brisbane’s triple – only the fourth time it has been achieved – will seem mighty impressive; not so Geelong’s non-consecutive double.
Like the many excellent teams before them who hovered at the top for extended periods, they won everything but back to back flags.
But it’s on paper also, that many people believe Geelong were the greater outfit.
The Cats of ’07 and ’08 claimed the minor premiership, dominating the competition and finishing several games and a massive percentage clear. Over the three years Geelong lost just ten games.
Brisbane failed to win a minor premiership and couldn’t match Geelong’s win-loss ratio; losing eighteen games over the same period.
The ’09 Geelong premiership team had fourteen All-Australians (and two future ones) compared to the ’03 Lions’ nine representatives but the latter had an extra Brownlow Medallist.
It’s extremely difficult to separate the two on sheer class
Milburn, Scarlett, Enright, Mackie, Taylor and Harley were an imposing back six but what of the Lions unique and fearful blend of skill and mongrel in Johnson, Michael, White, Power, Leppitsch and Lappin?
Geelong probably had the edge in the midfield with the brilliant combination of Ablett, Selwood and Bartel.
Or would Voss, Black and the underrated Norm Smith Medallist Shaun Hart have done the job on them?
The Cats also had two game-winning smaller forwards (Johnson and Chapman) to Brisbane’s one (Akermanis).
In terms of power forwards it’s a non-contest: the sometimes flaky Mooney and a still raw Hawkins versus Brown, Lynch and Bradshaw. Imagine the lengths a current day team would go to obtain just one of those last three in their prime.
But did Geelong have greater depth, and Brisbane more “passengers”? Perhaps.
Leigh Matthews has said his 02-03 team would “eat” the current Geelong outfit. But he wasn’t so sure they could do the same to the Geelong of ’09.
It says something about Matthews that he values the seemingly less accomplished Geelong team over its predecessors. The 2009 version seemed to be a shadow of the ’07 and ’08 ones, finishing well behind the minor premier St Kilda and being beaten by the Saints during the year.
They should have lost the Grand Final too. Early inaccuracy cost the Saints dearly but Geelong were still forced to claw their way to victory in one of the great premiership deciders. I think Matthews preferred his teams to win that way.
The Lions of 2001-03 and Geelong 2007-09 were both great outfits with superb defence, power and skill.
Just like their mascots, the Cats had the edge in skill and speed, while the Lions were more brutal and relentless.
Today, not even Leigh Matthews is prepared to give a definite answer to the question of which team was the greater one.
With the extra premiership and the fear they instilled in the opposition, I’d have to say it was Brisbane.
This is my final column for The Roar. It’s been a pleasure conversing with such knowledgeable, articulate and passionate sports followers.
Stumpy
Roar Rookie
I completely agree Brisbane had a massive advantage in salary cap. Hell they even where able to buy in Blake Caracella after winning the GF off their GF opponents with an already stacked team. It effectively made it possible for Brisbane to carry 4-5 half million dollar a year players compared to any other team. It's one of the worst pieces of administration from the AFL ever. What Geelong have done is simply amazing.
Peloton
Guest
And if the cats win a fourth?
Me Too
Guest
Thought the article covered the 'modern era' - which I take as 90 onwards. Over one year - despite a late start, by the final Geelong of 2007 were the best team of the era. Over three years then the Lions get the cake, over five years and it's Geelong again. And as consolation for the poor Saints I'd have to say the most dominant team I've ever seen were the saints from round one to nineteen in 2009. Pity they ran out of steam, but they burned too brightly and burnt all their coal a bit early.
Macca
Guest
Yeah I did think of you when I saw the stats (I don't have pay TV). Did you see the game? What were your views? From the reports I read it was a bit of a weird game.
Pollock
Guest
If the teams played each other 10 times it would be 5 wins a piece. Maybe someone should ask Chris Scott he is probably best quailfied to answer the question.
TomC
Roar Guru
You called it Macca! Waite way too athletic for Patfull last night.
Bill Larkin
Guest
Brisbane in a close decision. I'm not sure whether its been mentioned, but Essendon was a genuine super team in the late 90s. The Lions beat a fantastic competitor to start their streak.
pedrosa
Guest
The lions of that era were ridiculous. They use to murder teams at the gabba. Got to be Brisbane for sure!
WoobliesFan
Guest
Nice article Andrew. You brought back some wonderful memories from the early 00s......geez, that Lions team gripped the sporting landscape in Brisbane for a solid 5-6 years......they were everywhere and we were enthralled....even in 2005 and 2006, we were still hoping, praying that the run wasn't over....but deep down we knew it was. Lynch retiring was the start of the end. Mal doing a runner was painful. Akers dumping was when it all, finally, ultimately sank in. The dynasty was over.
Floyd Calhoun
Guest
In terms of getting the job done when it mattered most, then Brisbane. Can't argue with three straight. In terms of being a supporter of a battling club being on the receiving end of horrifying beltings, then Geelong. Also reckon their win/loss ratio would stack up pretty well in past six or so seasons. Brisbane's probably did too. I haven't the numbers to compare.
Stavros
Guest
"can you seriously consider the cats midfield of ablett selwood and bartel to be better than voss black and lappin?" - Yes! Even if you don't agree with the cats midfield being better, surely its a close call. Ablett will go down as the best of the six midfielders, and for me, Lappin is clearly the weakest. Good player, made to look a lot better in a top midfield.
TomC
Roar Guru
Excuse me, two of them. Forgot about Pikey.
Richard
Guest
Both are equally great teams who deserve all the recognition they get. I can't split them.
Macca
Guest
Exactly!
matt h
Guest
So basically what everyone is saying is, if I can make up my own definition for period of time and other external factors, then I can get to the answer I want.
Macca
Guest
How could a West COast supporter claim to be duded by umpires given the record at Subi!! I'll have to take your word on it.
langou
Roar Guru
Macca, you may think Collingwood complain most about umpires but having lived in both Perth and Melbourne I can tell you that Eagles supporters take the cake on that one. Not only do they claim that they always cop the rough deal but they believe it to be part of a big conspiracy where everything is set up (the AFL, Tribunal, Draw, Umpiring) to favour Victorian teams ahead of interstate teams.
Macca
Guest
I do like Patfull Tom but Waite has a very good leap and to give him a 4cm start could allow him to many marking chances - unlike a lot of our tall forwards if he gets hands to the ball he doesn't drop many.
TomC
Roar Guru
Ah, you underestimate Joel Patfull at your peril, Macca! He is a deceptively good footballer and is more than capable of giving away a bit of size. Michael is an interesting one. I suspect Voss intends for him to fill the role Staker played last week roaming across half-forward, which is where he plays in the NEAFL. He'll also pinch hit in the ruck, allowing Lisle to stay forward the whole game. Michael is a big, big boy, and has an incredible engine for a man his size. Once he gets a few games under his belt he'll be a difficult match up. Unlikely to have much hurt factor in his debut, though. To me, our forwardline looks far too tall. I think it'll be too easy for the Blues to rebound. I suspect one of Lisle or Michael will get subbed off at some point.
Macca
Guest
Greg - "I’ve never done anything illegal (apart from one or two speeding fines over my years), I have all my teeth, I earn well over 100k/annum in the IT industry. Again, another generalisation failure." As I said Greg "having a completely biased view of umpiring has consistently proven to be the most accurate in my experience."