Which of the ageing Socceroos would you take to Brazil?

Clearly very few believe that we could go the WC with no experience... there has to be a period where youth and age are combined to blood the youngsters with some wiser heads around them. 12 months is a long time in football, and for a mid 30's player a few months could be all it takes for them to physically decline but I'd have maybe 5-7 places out of 23 allotted to 'experience', noting that not all of these would start and some might be the super-sub types. On current form my definite's would be: Schwarzer Neill Bresciano Cahill With the balance to come from: Og Archie Kewell Emerton Garcia On Kewell - too much talent to be disregarded out of hand. needs a big a-league season but if the results are there he should be in the squad. ditto Emerton and Garcia. That leaves 16-18 spots for 'current' and youth 'picks'. more than enough I think. FWIW I think Wilkshire, McKay, Milligan are 'now' players.

" most international coaches do, pick their star players for the key positions in their plan and build their team around them". I don't disagree with that jb. Where I disagree is that AdP should be the 'star player' of an international side in 2013, or 2014. To build your team around genuine star players at the top of their game makes sense: Ribery is the only world class player France have these days (yep am French) and it makes sens to organise the team around what he does well, to some extent. With all due respect to AdP, he should not be the star player of a national squad like Oz. At SFC level, fine, but not the socceroos. IMO the socceroos do not have one or two star players that's why Holger has to find the right style and cohesion for the team. We don't have a Ronaldo, Messi, or Ribery and AdP wouldn't be this guy if he were Aussie.

Nick - Now we are getting nearer the nitty-gritty so to speak. though I didn't quite follow your logic in 2 of your sentences that to me appeared to contradict each other. You mention having a player like ADP on a pitch would mean building a team around him and with that I don't disagree,in fact I think that is exactly what most international coaches do, pick their star players for the key positions in their plan and build their team around them. You then go on to say if you are good enough you should make the team no matter your age. That to me is contradictory.By the way I did only use ADP because he is still playing among us but I do agree with you that my thoughts would extend to the players you also mention were they "by some miracle" available for the Socceroos. Cheers jb

I completely agree with your last sentence and have said the same jb, age is not a consideration when assessing talent. When it comes to ADP as much as I like him, I dunno if I would pick him for the Roos (for italy or any other top side def not). Having him on the pitch means you have to reorganise everything and adapt your style to his. It is ok at HAL level, but I think it would probably not be the case at international level. But it's a question that all coaches have to ask themselves all the time: we picked Thierry Henry in 2010 but not Vieira. It's never an easy question. If you're good enough you should make the team regardless of your age. Having said that, not every player ages the same way Giggs, Baresi, Maldini and a few others did.

nick - Not an answer. Also the "strange question" was not aimed at me, it as aimed at your opinion,and only required a yes or a no ????.In my opinion a fit ,in full training,motivated by the competition, ADP would walk into any Socceroo team. despite his age "disadvantage" ,get what I am trying to say ?????,age is not a consideration when assessing talent. jb.

Interesting that Kewell is being mentioned given he's barely played in the last year. He would have to do something outstanding at Heart, good luck to him but I doubt it will be enough, he'll probably end up like Emmo. Holger is only going to leave out older players if there's someone to replace them. So for Leckie, Sainsbury etc unless they have established themselves at club level (assuming Sainsbury moves) they aren't going anywhere. Hopefully Holger uses the East Asian Cup to see which players from secondary younger pool could be useful next year. What I'm confident of is that we'll see is Rogic and Oar becoming more established members of the starting team. Rogic could also potentially knock of Bresciano as he plays deeper for Celtic, he just needs to learn to defend better but should be paired with a DM anyway. Or put him in for Holman directly, although I must say that Holman's combination with Kruse is very strong. Sarota could be a bolter if he recovers well from injury as he was starting to be used beforehand.

If we can't beat Iraq we don't deserve to be there. A lot of improvement required before we go to Brazil to have any chance of progressing to next round. For sure we'll get drawn against Brazil again in the first round.

It has been known for a while that Australia is too old but the problem is the youth has not been at the level required, i would like to see a rebuild and give more of a chance but its not going to happen, which means brazil can turn ugly especially with the pace of neil and ogna, hazard, neymar, walcott and messi would lick their lips at that

Completely agree with the sentiment of the article, if we start preparing a nucleus of youngsters now, we will look in much better shape down the track than we will if we continue with our rather venerable first team under Holger. Unfortunately, he's at heart a pragmatist and a conservative, so not only will the first choicers (Schwarzer, Neill, Bresciano, Cahill, Ognenovski) be going to Brazil, I'd be very surprised if he doesn't take Kewell and Thompson too. Obviously some of the players are in there on merit - Cahill, Bresciano and Ognenovski most obviously, as well as Schwarzer - but it's a distinctly short term selection policy on the part of Osieck.

Huh? What a strange question. Depends on what you wanna do with the team and style you wanna play.

Nick - Just ask yourself a question. If by some miracle ADP was suddenly available to play for the Socceroos,would he go??? jb

Although I understand the risk of bringing an ageing squad to a WC, I can't agree with a statement like "Australia needs to use the East Asia Cup in July, the pre-World Cup friendlies and the 2014 World Cup to prepare for the Asian Cup 2015.". The WC is the pinnacle of football and I reckon every team participating should bring their best players, regardless of their age, and never use the event as a preparation for another, obviously less important event! Rebuilding is on going process and although I agree Holger might not have rejuvenated the team as much as he should have, I think the WC is definitely the wrong place to 'try' things and prepare for the next comp. I hope he brings his best players available, regardless of their age or resume. We all know coaches are sometimes guilty of selecting players well passed their prime on their name only. But it doesn't mean they should NOt select guys because they see a 3 and another number in the age column.

The conversation so far, seems to lend itself to the idea that if you take the over 30's then they are automatically going to start and play every minute. If Schwarzer gets picked up by a decent club then he is first picked. If you take Lucas Neill and Sasa Og then you know they are going to start. Why would you take a 30+ defender and have him sit on the bench. (Sasa Og has stood up the last 2 games and I think his ticket is stamped either way) Luke Wilkshire goes. Mark Bresciano has shown his hand and how valuable he is in CM however he may not start every game. For example, against the top 8 nation that we will inevitably be matched against, you could play Jedinak and Milligan/Valeri and bring on Bresciano as a pinch hitter. Cahill definitely goes and I can't see a valid argument for not taking him. Kewell and Thompson are the tricky ones and the argument can be mounted to take them as super subs. The situation might come up where we need to score a goal. Thompson came on against Jordan and you could see the immediate impact. Kewell has the technique to change a game. Emerton is gonski, we have a perfectly capable RB in Wilkshire and our right side of attack is turning on the style with Kruse firing. Which is funny because out of all the veterans, you would have chosen Brett Emerton to be still firing considering he was once confirmed as Australia's fittest athlete. So when you argue against taking the 30+ guys, have a think about the way they may be utilized before discounting them.

Thanks Midfielder. Yes, formations can change from game to game, depending on tactics/strategy/opposition, conditions, etc. I do understand that much! So taking Schwarzer, Neill, Wlkshire, Milligan, Bresciano, Kewell & Cahill & perhaps Thompson (all from the class of 2006) is by no means totally crazy. As long as they're surrounded by plenty of youth. Very understanding of the Hunter reds, very understanding indeed..........

@lesmurraySBS : Breaking, Socceroos to play away friendly v Brazil on Sep 6, provided they win and qualify on Tuesday.

agree with all this except for Wilkshire.....he's only 31! Hardly that old. In addition, he plays in Russia where the teams are renowned for their gruelling pre-season fitness regimes. If he can start compete with those boys, he'll have no problem in the world cup. He had a decent game against Japan and looked VERY GOOD in my opinion against Jordan. I think Archie deserves a shot. Even if he has lost some pace, he's still faster than most players in the current roos squad. He's make up for that with his enthusiasm anyway. He gave the team a lift when he came on against Jordan. It was his run, using his pace to cut inside and draw the defenders away from Cahill, that left Cahill wide open at the back post.

Eamonn - That remark was made tongue in teach but you do bring up some interesting comparions. Could I compare Del Piero with Fowler or Owen? No I couldn't, for Fowler and Owen were what I refer to as out and out goal poachers and there is little doubt than when strikers lose their sharpness in the box their game does drop off.Ryan Giggs started off as a winger when wingers were popular but in "ageing", his game has matured more into the playmaker role as has done ADP., Thought you might have passed comment on the other part of my thoughts.. !!!!!! jb

Sheek The spine are the central defenders the central mids and strikers... Australia play now a 4 - 2- 3 - 1 ... so it is the two central strikers in the back 4, the two Defensive mids or the 2, the attacking mid or the centre in the 3 and the striker... Boy that sounds confusing hope you understood ... blame the Hunter Reds if its unclear..

I watched One Night in Turin the other day and the gyst of the game between England and Ireland was that it was some ugly, ugly football.