Wallabies: picking the best of the best

Lambie also told a story about the one and only Ray Price at the one and only Al Pal's 40th, relating to the rumours circulating on that tour that Ray was defecting to league. He reckoned they were confirmed when Pricey was spotted carving his initials into the back of a pew in Westminster Abbey.

Would love to have been there the times Campo and Latho played together for the Greens, probably with Lloyd Walker creating mayhem inside them...

I can recall Topo and other Wallabies at the time were doing particular exercises Dwyer had found, called something like 'plyometrics', which involved exercising the back and core muscles by getting the body into unusual positions and doing intensive repeat movements, to strengthen the myriad little muscles and nerves of the lower back and upper legs. Seemed to go out of fashion, about the time creatine made its first appearance...

mattBurke wasnt even the best fullback in the WBs. larkham was a much better. Poidevin was the man. 9's. no mention of gregan? yet u still go on about meads?

Oh leave him alone. The anti-Kearns brigade smells like a bandwagon to me. Our best hooker and one of the top half dozen forwards we've produced. The occasional groan caused by his commentary is a small price to pay. You need a boofy nationalistic blowhard in footy commentary (see NIsbet, G) to give it colour, they can't all be Greg Clark.

The best rugby player I have seen is Zin Zan Brooke. I am an Aussie and Poido was my boy hood hero. But Zin Zane Brook had everything Tuff as Teak, Skills, Vision and pace he was the complete footballer. The best Australian back rower I have seen was Ben Kennedy he could have been Australia's Zin Zan.Unfortunately Kennedy disappeared not long after school and was never heard of again.

Seem to remember Farr-Jones himself stating the quote on the 'Rise and Rise of Australian Rugby' documentary as well.

as ice as it reads to comeup with such , these comparisons are not really fair. the game has seen many changes over the ensuing years and the players have evolved and adapted. usually a genaration of players from a say 15 year period will have stand outs (the usal shelf life of a great player). but to compare these players from different generations will not be fair imo. for example carter is the king of goal kicking now , but say 40 years ago kickers would have had different environment (like the ball, boots tee). the secon rowers actually jumped those days. the ball was real leather and so were boots. LAWS have changed also thus some of the lists fans have put here (best of 2000 to date) may be more apt. they show who relly captured the imagination of everyone among a set of players who played against each other.

Sorry Johnno, I disagree. Geoff Mould was the best thing that ever happened to Mark Ella's career.

”In case you pass by this blog again ...”

In the absence, Sheek, of replayed ITM matches on Fox a man has nought else to do but to wander about the rugby blogs on a Saturday night! :) I was not aware of that incident, being only 17 at the time and rather taken up with trying to imitate Kel O'Shea or someone similarly famous about the park, being badgered all the while by the local butcher to come on over and play with Canterbury second division rugby. There is an online search facility through the newspapers out of the National Library, in which one may view the daily papers scanned into their system, and search them for key words. I'll have a look around for that then. An aside on the Thornetts - in the late 1960s I recall being alongside the small stand at Henson Park with a mate watching his brother go around as captain of reserve grade for Newtown. Both Ken and Richard (The Roar sends his shortened name to moderation - aaarghh!) wandered in dressed as ordinary men through the local mob carrying small gear bags, absent earphones, to kit up for first grade - to polite applause for their efforts beating the Poms(?) in an SCG test just the day before. Doesn't happen that way these days and I am ever so pleased I experienced those days.

Rob, As much as I thought Gregan had his flaws, he's still better - at this stage - than Genia. Genia, I'm afraid to say, is a tad over-rated at the moment. But otherwise you've done a good job. But then the shiraz is making me hazy.....

Mick, In case you pass by this blog again. In 1966/67 in an early tour match, Thornett contracted impetigo, a highly contagious bacterial skin infection, off an opposing player. It took an inordinately long time to cure, which explains why he missed four out of five internationals. A black mark against Thornett's captaincy occurred during this tour. In just the second match, backup hooker Ross Cullen bit an opponent's ear after continued provocation. In a bid to be seen appeasing British officials, Thornett sided with manager Bill McLaughlin to send Cullen home. Coach Alan Roper apparently dissented. The decision split the touring party, a majority appearing to believe Cullen was denied "natural justice."

Well I was going to start a thread about Gary Ablett Senior, John Raper, Reg Gasnier, Serge Blanco, Mick Dittman, Hugo Porta - what a ploddder! - lazy Tom Hafey as a fitness coach, George Moore, Gary Player and that slouch Jack Nicklaus but that's put an end to that Tane Mahuta! :)

Oooops - that sixth paragraph should read:

”He missed the Wales, Scotland, England and Ireland matches on tour at the end of ’66 (front rowers Tony and Jim Miller, Roy Prosser) and played his last match at loose head and captain, with Tony Miller at tight head, against France on the last match of the tour. I’m guessing he was injured at its commencement.”

Well Sheek and Uncle Argyle, my finding is that John Thornett started as an open side 6-ish flanker who spent time behind the loose head’s backside, a little behind the tight head’s, which he then became, and somehow popped out the loose head side by the end. :) He played blindside flanker for his first 6 (’55 to early ’58). In ’58 and ’59 he played open side for 5 matches and 3 on the blind side. Ted Heinrich turned up to play No 6 so Thornett went to No 4 and locked mainly with his brother from ‘61 to mid ’63 (11 matches). He took over the captaincy from Catchpole in mid ’62 (and did so for 16 matches until he retired). He would have been a fair handful at flanker – he was a big bloke. Peter Crittle (another big ‘un) and Rob Heming were selected as the locks from mid ‘63 onwards and John Thornett went to tight head, for 8 matches, with long termer Jon White at loose head, until ‘65. He finished his career with 3 matches in ’66 – ’67 at loose head, with Tony Miller at tight head. In summary that is 10 matches at blind side flanker, 5 at open side flanker, 11 at lock, 8 at tight head and 3 at loose head. From August 1955 to February 1967 Thornett played 37 internationals – 15 at home, 11 in New Zealand, 6 in RSA and 5 in Wales, Scotland and France. The home matches included two Springbok tours, two British and Irish Lions tours, NZ Maori, Fiji, England, France and just 1 game against the All Blacks. He missed the Wales, Scotland, England and Ireland matches on tour at the end of ’66 (front rowers Tony and Jim Miller, Roy Prosser) and played his last match at tight head and captain, with Tony Miller at loose head, against France on the last match of the tour. I’m guessing he was injured at its commencement. 1955 to 1967 straddled the golden age of rugby league, of course, of Brian Edgar, Huddart and Vince Karalius, St George and their stalking horses Wests and the Rabbitohs, 70,000 people at the SCG in the rain and mud of 1963 and 78,000 five years later (I was at both in my teenage). Thornett saw off fellow Wallabies to League – Kevin Ryan in ’59, then Summons, Cleary, Jimmy Lisle, his brother, George Ruebner, Phil Hawthorne and Alan Cardy in 1969. For that reason the recorded crowd numbers drew my eye. He played in front of 55,000 people in Cardiff (’58), 45,000 at Murrayfield (’58), 48,000 in Auckland (‘62), 52,000 in Pretoria and 65,000 in Johannesburg (’63) and 46,000 in Sydney (’65). That last one threw up an odd number – the very next week the Wallabies played the Springboks again in Brisbane before just 10,000 people. Something similar occurred in ’66 – the British and Irish Lions drew 42,000 in Sydney and less than half that, 18,500 in the following week in Brisbane. Overall I thought they were pretty good crowds for rugby, for the period.

Lordy 1/ Best hands -- Ella & Brass --Agreed they're standouts 2/ Most devastating defender -- Ian Moutray from Drummoyne played only one Test I think. Was a devastating crash tackler whose career was cut short by injuries. I can't think of a harder hitter than Moutray. Poidevin was a good defender, but not in the same class as Moutray or Jules Guerassimoff as a devastating tackler. 3/ Longest kickers -- Lenehan -- Agreed 4/ Greatest fullback -- Burke -- Agreed 5/ Wingers -- Campese & Moon -- A difficult question. Campese certainly, but Moon will do for number two. Tune and Roff must be considered. As should Eddie Stapleton who was not the quickest winger around, but he was direct and almost unstoppable 6/ Centres -- Another difficult one. I never saw Allan or Solomon. As you've already said, Brass had beautiful hands and a great pass, and his timing of a pass was generally perfect, and I rate him above Michael Hawker and Horan at IC. His combination with Phil Smith was a joy to behold as they knew each other so well. Michael O'Connor at OC. Little was our most over rated outside centre ever. OC's number one priority should be to put his winger away, yet Little's first option was always to come back inside & look for support from backrowers. Gary Ella was probably the most skillful OC of them all, but was not robust enough for Test Rugby. To see him ghost through openings that didn't exist and position his winger perfectly was special. 7/ Fly half -- Ella -- Standout . Michael Lynagh who was a great all round 5/8 at no.2 . Steady, always took the right options, could tackle and kick goals. 8/ Half -- Catchpole -- Standout followed by Farr-Jones 9/ No.8 -- Loane -- Standout. Willie O no.2 10/ Flankers -- Poidevin and take your pick from Price and Smith, but don't forget that Price was our first flanker to stick it up the ABs BEFORE they got stuck into us and they couldn't believe that an Aussie would have the temerity to do so. 11/ Second Row -- Eales and Heming. You're right David. What a pairing that would have been. I've heard a story that after club training at Manly, when everyone else had finished, Heming would stand under the goalposts and clap his hands above the crossbar 100 times before going home. 12/ Props you could talk about forever 13/ Hookers -- Lawton or Kearns -- take your pick. Johnson was probably a better hooker than either, but not as strong in the rough and tumble. 14/ Now my two nominations as most versatile forward and most versatile back. Forward -- Tony Miller played his first two Tests at no. 8, then goodness knows how many in the second row, and finished up as a prop. Back -- Rod Phelps rep'd at Test level at fullback, wing and centre, and was a very accomplished fly half as well. Great all round skills and a tackler who rarely missed his man.. 15/ Captain -- Farr-Jones 16/ Best ever performance by player thrust into out-of-position role.-- Jules Guerassimoff . Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I was only a kid and I have a memory of John Thornett's '63 touring team to South Africa playing an exhibition game against a composite side called "The Rest" on their return to Australia. It was played at the Sydney Sports Ground, and I think Guerassimoff, ended up on the wing and scored three tries when Thornett's mob ran out of replacement backs.

I see him as the most overrated opportunist of all time. He has scored a lot of intercepts, but also let in tries with the same tactic. His kicking game is poor, his passing and offloading game is below par for a modern day winger. and he doesn't really do much besides run really fast. He is really just the last man traditional scorer. Sometimes he looks spectacular, because he is just pure speed. There are so man wide receivers that I could take from the NFL that would look just like Habana - speed and handling. There are so many other wingers that have an all round game. Let's face it, he works well for SA because their attack is pretty one dimensional. In another team he would need more than just speed. Doug Howlett wasn't as fast, but had more skills and was better in the tackle. His strike was pretty good too. NZ churns them out. Just as an example. Hype is an amazing thing, but I think there are plenty better wingers than Habana.

Couldn't agree more with your view of Dusatoir.

he also played 6... I don't know how anyone could put dausautoir near a team like this. The most overrated player of all time. Inconsistent as they come. How can you forget about Gareth Edwards, many consider him not only the best halfback of all time, but also the best player of all time.

Its a good thing. Im all for individuality and players being able to say what they want and do what they want. Imo being part of a role model is acting and relating to people, not pretending to be a mostly unattainable kind of perfection that people cant relate to. However Im against players doing things that inhibit their performance and to be honest, no player who smokes during the game will be good enough to play at any kind of elite level these days anyway. Cricket yes, rugby no. Its also part of the reason that pre 80s rugby holds far less interest for me. Imo they were generally nowhere near as good as players of today. There were exceptions and a lot of those players would have been great with todays training and professionalism but when I watch games from the early 70s and before it looks, well it looks amateur because it was and the players were less well trained and were not in the same physical state. Imo, in my life time, the players have just been getting better and better and I personally believe that the ability of the players today has never been matched. Its true that players like Lomu and Fitzpatrick would have been great today but if you include all players todays players are the best theyve ever been. And thats a good thing.