By around 9pm Sunday night we’ll know the identity of the 2014 NRL champions. In the meantime a whole lot of people are all going to have their say about who is going to win and why.
I’ve examined the stats from top to bottom and come up with this earth shattering conclusion: it could go either way.
When these sides met way back in 1967, in their one and only grand final clash, the Rabbitohs won 12-10 courtesy of a Bob McCarthy intercept try.
Just like that game, the statistics suggest this game will be tight.
There is a good reason for why each side will win but, of course, only one can be right. One theory is based on history and a bit of psychology, the other around the relative performance stats of both sides this year.
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» GORE: Who the stats say will win the NRL Grand Final
Theory one: The Bulldogs win – grand final experience wins grand finals
After Round 10 this season I ran a formula that predicted either Canterbury or Manly would win the grand final this season.
The key reasons for this logic were:
a) there hasn’t been a (genuine) back-to-back premier since the Broncos in 1993
b) the side that wins the title is usually (70 per cent) already in the top four by that stage of the season
c) with the exceptions of Melbourne (1999) and Penrith (2003), a side without grand final experience in the last five or six seasons only wins a decider when they are also playing a side with similar inexperience: the Broncos (1992), Wests Tigers (2005), St George Illawarra (2010).
The Bulldogs played in the 2012 decider and have nine players backing up from that game if Michael Ennis plays. Further, Tony Williams played in Manly’s 2011 premiership side.
Conversely, the Rabbitohs were in equal eighth spot after Round 10 and they have not played in a grand final for 43 years.
The Rabbitohs only have Greg Inglis and Lote Tuquiri (14 years ago) who have played in grand finals.
The great Gus Gould once said that it can take you about a quarter of the game to feel a part of your first grand final – and by that time the game may already be gone.
So for the Bulldogs, grand final experience – and the Rabbits’ lack of it – is the key to winning the premiership decider. The experience they gained from their loss in 2012 will put steel in their resolve and they’ll be focused on the task at hand from the kick off.
The Rabbits may not know what hit them.
Theory two: The Rabbitohs win – on paper they are clearly the better side
The reason the Rabbitohs finished in third spot this season is that they are a damn good team who are superior to the Bulldogs in pretty much every aspect. They will win this match as a result of those truths.
The only stats where the Bulldogs are better than the Rabbitohs are fairly innocuous: they make around 16 extra metres a match and they offload 2.4 times more than the Rabbitohs. In every other statistical aspect the Rabbitohs have the advantage.
The major differences are as a result of the Rabbits’ stellar defence. The boys from Redfern miss 4.3 fewer tackles a game than the Bulldogs, and concede a whopping 239 fewer metres than their opponents.
However, their attack has been brilliant this year as well. Of their 26 matches so far this season they have won 14 of them by 13 or more points. Of the 14 games they played against the other sides that finished in the top eight they’ve won eight and lost six.
The cold reality for the Bulldogs is that 91 per cent of the last 31 grand finals dating back to 1984 (including both in 1997) have been won by a team who secured the second chance, like the Rabbitohs did this season.
In those 30 seasons, a team has made the grand final from sudden-death positions on 12 occasions (40 per cent of the time). However, only on three occasions (9 per cent) have they won the title.
In 1989 the Canberra Raiders were the first team to win from lower than third spot, coming from fourth. The Broncos went one better in 1993, coming from fifth to win the title. The finals were expanded to a top eight in 1995 for the first time and Canterbury Bankstown won from sixth place. They were the last team to win from lower than fourth spot.
In the subsequent 18 seasons the Bulldogs (1998), St George (1999), Cowboys (2005), Parramatta (2009), Roosters (2010) and the Warriors (2011) have all made the decider from outside the top four only to lose.
The questions
Where will the Bulldogs get the points from?
With Josh Morris down on form, where will the Bulldogs get the points they need to win from?
Tim Lafai and Mitch Brown are the only Bulldogs players to have scored 10 or more tries this season. So while the Rabbits’ right-side defence of Dylan Walker and Alex Johnston will have their work cut out for them, the rest of the Dogs attack could be accused of being a bit toothless. Josh Jackson and Tony Williams might be the answer.
Which Sam Burgess will turn up?
I’m a huge ‘Big Sam’ fan and I’m sad that this is his last game in the NRL. How he performs in this match will have a huge bearing on the result.
While his 158 metres and 34 tackles a game, 72 tackle breaks, 12 line breaks and 10 tries have been mammoth, his propensity for errors and conceding penalties can destroy his game. He has given away 16 penalties this season and committed 29 errors. Souths can’t afford him to have a poor game.
Who must perform?
Greg Inglis didn’t tie for the Dally M on Monday night but he is mentioned in the same breath as Jarryd Hayne and Johnathan Thurston. When on form he is nearly unstoppable, breaking tackles, scoring and setting up tries. If he fires it is hard to see the Bunnies losing.
Sam Burgess is almost as vital to Souths’ chances as Inglis is. Can he perform on the big stage?
Adam Reynolds will need to be at his playmaking best in this game.
Josh Reynolds burst onto the scene in 2012 with his incisive attacking skills. Latterly he’s been better known for his niggle and brain explosions. He’ll need to niggle for two if Ennis doesn’t play, while also guiding his team around the park, but he can’t afford any brain explosions.
Plenty have been singing the praises of Englishman James Graham in recent weeks. A prop forward who averages 70 or more minutes a match, while making huge metres and masses of tackles, is a rare thing. Ray Price used to be called ‘Mr Perpetual Motion’, but Graham owns the title now.
Lafai has become the Bulldogs main attacking weapon this year. If the Bulldogs are to win he’ll have to have a game that will give Walker and Johnston nightmares for years to come.
The dark horses
Tony Williams can be a mixed bag. One day he is the mighty T-Rex, swatting away would-be tacklers as he smashes through the line, the next he is an error-prone lump who misses tackles. If the Bulldogs ever needed him to have a big one it is now.
John Sutton is finishing the season in the second row and out of the five-eighth role. While his stats are down on previous seasons, his try and line break assists are still excellent. If he has a big game it could well tip the balance.
So who will win?
My heart tells me that we’ll see the Cardinal and Myrtle triumph and their long-suffering faithful will go berserk.
While the statistically predicted score is 20-16 to the Rabbitohs, based on both teams’ results against other top eight sides this season, it could be a big win to the Rabbitohs.
Having said that, my head says that the occasion will get to the Rabbitohs and the Bulldogs’ far superior grand final experience will see them win the premiership in a tight one.
The Bulldogs by 4.
All the stats you need for the big game
The history
Overall | Played: 162 | Rabbitohs: 72 | Bulldogs: 84 | Draws: 6 |
At ANZ | Played: 19 | Rabbitohs: 6 | Bulldogs: 13 | Draws: 0 |
This Season | Round 7: Bulldogs 15 – Rabbitohs 14 |
Round 25: Rabbitohs 21 – Buldogs 14 |
||
The coaches head-to-head |
Michael Maguire 4 | Des Hasler 3 |
Rabbitohs 2014 results
13+ wins | 1-12 wins | 1-12 losses | 13+ losses | Average score | Average score Vs top eight |
14 | 3 | 8 | 1 | 25 – 15.5 | 23 – 17 |
Bulldogs 2014 results
13+ wins | 1-12 wins | 1-12 losses | 13+ losses | Average score | Average score Vs top eight |
5 | 11 | 7 | 4 | 19 – 17.5 | 16-18 |
Comparative attack stats
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | Advantage | |||||
Total | Average | NRL Rank | Total | Average | NRL Rank | ||
Tries scored | 113 | 4.3 | #3 | 87 | 3.6 | #10 | + 0.7 Rabbitohs |
Tries conceded | 71 | 2.7 | #1 | 84 | 3.3 | #7 | +0.6 Rabbitohs |
Linebreaks | 132 | 5.1 | #2 | 101 | 4.0 | #9 | +1.1 Rabbitohs |
Tacklebreaks | 772 | 29.7 | #2 | 719 | 27.8 | #4 | +1.9 Rabbitohs |
Run metres | 1377 per match | #4 | 1392.8 per match | #2 | +15.8 Bulldogs | ||
Offloads | 223 | 8.6 | #14 | 284 | 11 | #4 | +2.4 Bulldogs |
Comparative defence stats
Stat | Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | Advantage | ||||
Total | Average | NRL Rank | Total | Average | NRL Rank | ||
Errors | 281 | 11.3 | #4 | 285 | 11.4 | #3 | +0.1 Rabbitohs |
Missed Tackles | 519 | 20 | #1 | 612 | 24.3 | #6 | +4.3 Rabbitohs |
Line Breaks Conceded | 71 | 2.7 | #1 | 99 | 3.7 | #5 | +1 Rabbitohs |
Penalties Conceded | 165 | 6.8 | #7 | 184 | 7.2 | #3 | +0.4 Rabbitohs |
Metres Conceded | 1293.7 | #4 | 1533.3 | #16 | +239.6 Rabbitohs |
The referees
Shayne Hayne
Rabbitohs Vs Bulldogs |
6 games | Bulldogs 4 | Rabbitohs 1 | Draws: 1 |
Bulldogs | 46 games | Bulldogs 26 | Opposition 19 | Draws: 1 |
Rabbitohs | 49 games | Rabbitohs 17 | Opposition 31 | Draws: 1 |
Gerard Sutton
Rabbitohs Vs Bulldogs |
1 game | Rabbitohs 1 | Bulldogs 0 | Draws: 0 |
Bulldogs | 20 games | Bulldogs 13 | Opposition 7 | Draws: 0 |
Rabbitohs | 17 Games | Rabbitohs 9 | Opposition 8 | Draws: 0 |
Top try scorers
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | ||
Alex Johnston | 20 | Tim Lafai | 14 |
Dylan Walker | 12 | Mitch Brown | 10 |
Greg Inglis | 12 | Corey Thompson | 10 |
Sam Burgess | 10 | James Graham | 5 |
Top try assists
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | ||
Adam Reynolds | 16 | Josh Reynolds | 10 |
Dylan Walker | 12 | Trent Hodkinson | 10 |
John Sutton | 11 | Tim Lafai | 10 |
Greg Inglis | 10 | Michael Ennis | 7 |
Top line breaks
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | ||
Alex Johnston | 20 | Corey Thompson | 16 |
Greg Inglis | 18 | Tim Lafai | 12 |
Dylan Walker | 15 | Mitch Brown | 11 |
Sam Burgess | 12 | Josh Jackson | 9 |
Top tackle breaks
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | ||
Greg Inglis | 111 | Tim Lafai | 95 |
Dylan Walker | 86 | Sam Perrett | 79 |
Sam Burgess | 72 | Corey Thompson | 69 |
Kirisome Auva’a | 58 | Tony Williams | 65 |
Top metres
Sam Burgess | 158 | Sam Perrett | 125 |
Greg Inglis | 150 | Aidan Tolman | 124.5 |
George Burgess | 135 | James Graham | 123.5 |
Thomas Burgess | 120 | Tony Williams | 105 |
Top tacklers
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | ||
Sam Burgess | 34.3 | Michael Ennis | 38.6 |
Ben Te’o | 30 | James Graham | 35.3 |
George Burgess | 27.5 | Aiden Tolman | 33 |
Isaac Luke | 27.4 | Josh Jackson | 31 |
Top penalty conceders
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | ||
Sam Burgess | 16 | Michael Ennis | 20 |
Ben Te’o | 15 | Dale Finucane | 18 |
Luke Burgess | 14 | Josh Jackson | 17 |
Dylan Walker | 13 | Josh Reynolds | 15 |
Top errors
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | ||
Sam Burgess | 29 | Trent Hodkinson | 24 |
Adam Reynolds | 18 | Tim Lafai | 23 |
Kirisome Auva’a | 17 | Tony Williams | 20 |
Greg Inglis | 16 | Josh Reynolds | 20 |
Top missed tackles (average)
Rabbitohs | Bulldogs | ||
Isaac Luke | 2.6 | Josh Reynolds | 2.8 |
Sam Burgess | 2.1 | Josh Jackson | 2.3 |
Luke Keary | 1.8 | Michael Ennis | 2.3 |
Kirisome Auva’a | 1.8 | Moses Mbye | 2.1 |
Arthur beatsons mum
Guest
You not very good at science Tim, you have assumed I am Arthur Beetson the league players mum, in fact I am Arthur beatson the accountants mum. Shouldn't assume stuff Tim. It's a bit like guessing facts from limited information. But then your the expert.
cronulladave
Guest
Good points Muzz. And another fact to support your roosters, they are 103 worse off than souths in the for and against penalty count this season. And they have not finished in the positive in the count for 11 years......
Muzz
Guest
2 of the games biggest myths are mentioned in this thread. 1) Roosters give away penalties to reset their D - Sterlo highlighted that the Roosters penalties are spread across the field, lengthwise. All teams give away their fair share of penalties in the oppositions red zone. 2) Only people in Bondi drink coffee - Coffee is the worlds second most traded commodity. End of mini rant.
Sleiman Azizi
Roar Guru
Genn Innes is a cafe latte machine supplier in eastern Sydney. I think.
Tim Gore
Expert
Glen Innes makes a pretty good point - as always. If he would just reveal his true identity!
Tim Gore
Expert
You spelled Beetson wrong...
Sleiman Azizi
Roar Guru
"...overall they are an excellent guide to the probability of something happening or not happening provided there are fairly large numbers of people betting." Could you expand on that last point? Based on what you wrote, predictions are based on the number of people who bet. I would have thought that if gambling statistics had any legitimacy they would be based on the facts and figures of a match rather than outside opinion of it. It seems to me that sports gambling is merely one punter up against public opinion of a match. Is that what it really amounts to?
Glenn Innes
Guest
As I have said before the most important stat is weight of money, betting markets are very accurate at calculating probabilities if you are looking at large sample sizes. They do however have one small inefficiency, they overestimate the chances of long shots winning, this is no doubt a product of human greed and ego (everyone loves to boast about the longshot they tipped) but overall they are an excellent guide to the probability of something happening or not happening provided there are fairly large numbers of people betting. As far as historical precedent is concerned I guess there are two narratives at work one is the "grand final experience" hypotheses, the other is the fact that only three teams have ever won four straight finals games to win comp and nobody has done it in the NRL era. Of course there is also the philosophical debate about how important historical precedent really is, given that every grand final is unique, it has never happened before and will never happen again, even if the same two teams are back next year the teams will be different, so are you better off forgetting the past and going on the present ie recent form. Grand final experience favours Canterbury but finishing seventh is very bad from the point of view of historical precedent and South's have a much better for and against in games against this years top eight (the dogs are actually negative) so form favours South's That is two votes for South's and one for the dogs which pretty much reflects the betting markets which have South's a seventy percent chance.Crude as muck I know but my gut feeling is the market has got this game about right.
Arthur Beatsons Mum
Guest
Furthermore to make it even simpler for you Your tipping by the stats over the finals has resulted in a 50% win , loss ratio. your tipping by score line is abysmal 1 result and even that was only dogs by 1-12. So in conclusion, your scientific statistical analysis amounts to no better than a toss of the coin. Your scientific statistical scoreline is a complete failure, and you have the arrogance to put expert next to your name. Maybe its you who should have chosen an alias.
Renegade
Guest
"Stranger things have happened but if the doggies win the GF I will switch to Netball and throw out my stats data base on the way." I'm pretty much banking on the Dogs to win now ;)
Sleiman Azizi
Roar Guru
Sure, I'm ready. For what though, I'm not sure. Thanks for the compliment. Nice words are always appreciated. That's a stat we can all bank on :)
Tim Gore
Expert
Hey Artie's Mum. Of course everyone is guessing! Some guesses are well informed and based in some form of science. Like mine is. I've presented two options- which I've explained the reasons for - and then clearly said which one I believe will happen. One I want to happen (my heart) and the other I actually believe will happen (my head). If that draws you ire then so be it. And I've put my actual name to my opinion, as opposed to you.
Tim Gore
Expert
Thems fighting words Scott! BTW agree that dogs don't score in second halves and that they've been really lucky to get through. But now they are there they'll win
Muzz
Guest
Can i call it, Tim ? Tumbleweeds................................................ : )
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Stats say that you have not contributed a full blown article for a while and you are the best writer on the Roar on both sides of the columns. Anytime ya ready matey.
Tim Gore
Expert
It was a test. I was testing you. And you passed. They'd get fined if they had the wrong gear on. So I pointed it out.
Sleiman Azizi
Roar Guru
Stats tell you what is likely to occur, not what will occur. Even if it occurs 99.9% of the time true scientific thinking would never believe it sacrosanct. Theories are meant to be proven wrong. But then, it is human nature to want or need to be right... Go Glebe.
Sleiman Azizi
Roar Guru
It's statistically proven that I am always spot on. Except when I am not. Go Glebe.
Sleiman Azizi
Roar Guru
Cannot is different to did not.
ScottWoodward.me
Roar Guru
Baz, Slei With the exception of round 21 the Bulldogs simply CANNOT score in the 2nd half and I might point out that they lost in round 21. They only won 2 from 8 prior to the semis and come into the GF winning only 5 from their last 10, but only averaging 2.6 points in the last 40 mins in 11 of their last 12 games. Forget about anything else I have never seen a team qualify for a GF with such poor figures. They landed on the weak side of the draw and side stepped the Cowboys and the Roosters. The weak side of the draw had Manly without virtually their entire forward pack and a Storm team that included Ben Roberts, Bryan Norrie and Ryan Hichcliffe. Stranger things have happened but if the doggies win the GF I will switch to Netball and throw out my stats data base on the way.