In David Pocock’s absence, Michael Hooper has developed into Australia’s premier openside flanker, picking up a string of awards and glowing accolades from players and coaches past and present.
However, in the last 12 months, his performances at Wallabies level appears to have dropped off considerably, sparking heated debate around his contribution to the national team.
Having warmed to Hooper through his impressive displays in 2012 and 2013, I took note when the criticism began, and started watching him a little closer. Indeed, anecdotally at least, the critics seemed on the money.
He definitely appeared to be quite weak in the ruck area, and although he made a lot of metres with the ball in hand, a lot of it was in the wider channels where there is often more space in front of the defensive wall.
However, as Hooper continued to top the tackle count, ruck involvements and metres run, there was an obvious conflict between what the critics were seeing and what the stats were us. For that reason, I picked a game at random (Bledisloe 3 in 2014) and made notes on every single play that Hooper got involved in.
The purpose of this was to see if there really was a disparity between what the stats were saying and his actual impact during a game. A tackle is a tackle on the stats sheet, but there is a big difference between bringing a player to the ground and knocking the snot out of them so they don’t feel like getting back up.
Okay, so it wasn’t an entirely random choice. I deliberately didn’t pick any of the northern hemisphere games as it was a stinker of a tour and didn’t want to be accused of bias. I started watching Hooper much closer during that period and thought it would be too easy to single out those games for analysis.
That left the Rugby Championship and French series in Australia, and of those, Bledisloe 3 was by far the most bearable game to watch again, and Hooper’s stats (according to espnscrum.com) were quite good – he topped the metres run and defenders beaten in the forwards and was second only to Sam Carter in the tackle count.
So, on closer inspection, here’s what happened (for those not interested in the breakdown, you can skip to the summary below):
00:20 Lealiifano brings down an All Black runner and Hooper is around third or fourth to the ruck. He doesn’t hit the ruck particularly hard and really has no effect. The All Blacks retain possession and put in a clearing kick downfield.
00:46 Wallabies secure a short throw from their lineout and move the ball through the backline to Kuridrani who takes the tackle. Hooper is the first to the ruck and is lucky not to get called for entering the ruck from the side. He manages to disrupt McCaw from getting the ball but doesn’t completely clean him out. Tomane joins the ruck (legally) a few seconds later, clearing out McCaw so the Wallabies retain possession.
3:11 Hooper is the second tackler on Cory Jane and goes high but is ineffective in stopping Jane from offloading to Read who is then taken down by Simmons and Lealiifano. Hooper joins the ensuing ruck but again doesn’t hit the ruck with any power and the All Blacks recycle with ease.
3:36 Barritt takes the ball into a tackle and Hooper is the third or fourth Wallaby to the breakdown but doesn’t hit the ruck with any real power. Higginbotham joins the ruck after Hooper, going in lower and harder, and comes up with the turnover ball!
4:19 All Blacks lose the ball in a crunching tackle by James Slipper. Hooper pounces on the loose ball and makes about 5m before being tackled.
4:44 Hooper stands over a tackled player, braced for a ruck, but the All Blacks do not contest for the ball.
4:54 Hooper takes a pass from Phipps but is tackled after making a metre or so.
7:32 Hooper is second to a second phase ruck from an All Black lineout. There are numbers from both sides in the ruck but Hooper doesn’t seem to be having any impact. Ball spills loose and Higginbotham hoofs it downfield, following up with a strong chase.
7:54 In a great piece of work, Hooper charges down a kick from Dagg, but it’s re-gathered by Barritt who makes a 30m break.
9:05 Hooper is first to a tackled All Black, 5m out from the Wallaby line. He scavenges for the ball but is cleaned out by McCaw.
10:42 Hooper plays scrumhalf after a big break downfield by Lealiifano and Folau.
11:05 Hooper takes a poor pass from Fardy and takes the ball into contact safely, makes about 4m.
11:30 Hooper takes an inside ball from Foley, about 5m out from the tryline but is unable to muscle his way over the chalk.
16:53 Hooper has a run in the 10-12 channel. He’s taken down by Reid and has the ball stripped by the second tackler, McCaw.
17:11 Hooper binds onto Slipper who picks and drives into contact.
19:45 Hooper tackles Fekitoa. It’s not a dominant tackle but he gets to his feet quickly to have a crack at the ball, but is blown off by McCaw.
20:12 Hooper enters a defensive ruck, 5m from the Wallaby line and is swiftly removed by Retallick
20:32 Hooper makes a 4-5m run before being tackled. McCaw almost steals the ball as Hooper tries to offload in the tackle.
21:02 Hooper goes scavenging for the ball after Foley tackles an All Black player but is removed from the ruck by McCaw
21:38 Hooper stands over a tackled player, braced for a ruck, but the All Blacks do not contest for the ball.
24:00 Sea-gulling out wide, Hooper takes a ball on the wing from Folau and makes about 5m before getting smashed by Savea. A “bone cruncher” according to the commentators.
24:39 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck but doesn’t clear anyone out or have much impact.
26:20 Hooper stands over a tackled player, braced for a ruck, but the All Blacks do not contest for the ball.
27:48 Not sure what he’s doing here? He looks lost in an attacking maul off a lineout, 10m from the Wallaby line.
28:28 Scores are locked at 7-7 and the Wallabies get a penalty 10m out and 10-15m in from the sideline (easy points). Hooper turns down the kick and goes for a lineout, 5m out. The Wallabies take the ball into a maul from the ensuing lineout and get held up, turning over possession.
30:58 Hooper takes the ball at the back of a Wallaby lineout and is immediately tackled by McCaw who is then penalised for not rolling away. The penalty is right in front of the posts, 30m back. Hooper elects for the kick this time and Foley converts the penalty into points.
34:17 Hooper tackles Retallick low. It’s not a dominant tackle and a second tackler (Kepu) comes in to finish the job so Retallick can’t offload.
34:25 Hooper goes scavenging for the ball after Barritt is tackled but is swiftly removed by Franks.
37:38 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck and puts in a half-hearted shove which doesn’t have any real effect.
38:17 Hooper seagulls between outside centre and the wing, about 10m from the Wallaby line. He gets a ball from Higginbotham but doesn’t have the power to get over the line and is stopped a metre short. Foley scores after spotting a gap thanks to a quick recycle but misses the conversion.
Half Time. Are you enjoying this?
42:00 Hooper stands over a tackled player, braced for a ruck, but the All Blacks do not contest for the ball.
42:13 Same as above… stands over a tackled player, braced for a ruck, but the All Blacks do not contest for the ball.
45:04 Again sea-gulling out wide, Hooper is third to a ruck after Ashley-Cooper is brought down. There isn’t really anyone there to clean out as the All Blacks don’t contest the ball.
45:41 Hooper steps into an altercation between Phipps and Messam. He gives Messam a shove and then walks off as a scrum is called. Phipps and Messam continue their stoush prompting the referee to pull Hooper aside and ask “do you want to lead by example”?
47:30 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck and puts in a half-hearted shove which doesn’t have any real effect.
47:58 Hooper stands over a tackled player, braced for a ruck, but the All Blacks do not contest for the ball.
48:14 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck and puts in a half-hearted shove which doesn’t have any real effect.
48:31 Hooper receives a pass from Phipps and has a run. He makes about 5m before being taken down where he is isolated and McCaw is straight in to turn over the ball.
50:04 Loose play after an All Black knock-on. Kuridrani picks up the loose ball and offloads to Hooper who makes a few meters before being tackled where he safely recycles.
50:21 Fardy takes the ball into contact and Hooper tries to clear out Crockett with no real effect. Fainga’a then hits the ruck at pace and provides the momentum to clear the ball.
50:35 Hooper has a run off Phipps and makes about 2m before being decked by McCaw.
51:02 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck and puts in a half-hearted shove which doesn’t have any real effect.
54:15 Hooper receives a short ball from Lealiifano, makes about 5m and is taken down by Reid.
59:28 Hooper stands over a tackled player, braced for a ruck, but the All Blacks do not contest for the ball.
60:24 Hooper tackles Reid. It’s not a dominant tackle but he goes low and chops him down allowing a quick Hodgson to get his hands on the ball and Reid is pinged for holding on.
61:24 Not sure what Hooper is doing here? McCaw steals a lineout and in the ensuing play, Hooper is in an offside position and gets in the way of Reid who brushes him away but Hooper somehow manages to fall back and sit on Reid.
61:43 Hooper goes scavenging for the ball after Hodgson puts in a solid hit on Faumuina but is cleaned out easily.
62:03 Hooper tackles Faumuina himself but it isn’t a particularly dominating tackle.
62:29 Hooper tackles Retallick. Again, it isn’t a dominant tackle but he manages to wrap up Retallicks arms so he couldn’t get an offload away.
64:22 Hooper hits an attacking ruck stopping Aaron Smith from his attempt to get at the ball.
65:07 Hooper misses a tackle on Fekitoa who makes 15m before being tackled just short of the 22m line.
66:09 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck and puts in a half-hearted shove which doesn’t have any real effect.
66:46 Hooper tackles Cane. It’s not a dominant tackle but he goes low and gets him down.
67:40 Hooper goes scavenging for the ball after Cane is tackled but is easily cleaned out by Franks
68:14 All Blacks are 5m from their try line. They go wide to Piutau and Hooper wraps him up. Again, not a dominant tackle but gets the job done.
70:35 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck and puts in a half-hearted shove which doesn’t have any real effect.
71:47 All Blacks start a maul from an attacking lineout and shove the Wallabies back 15-20m. All the while, Hooper stands beside the maul watching and even walks backwards as the All Blacks advance, instead of getting in and helping the other forwards.
72:02 Hooper wins a turnover after Lealiifano tackles Fekitoa who doesn’t release the ball.
73:14 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck and puts in a decent shove this time but doesn’t have any real effect.
76:50 Hooper has a run in the 10-12 channel and makes 2-3m before being taken down hard by two tacklers working in tandem
77:06 Hooper tries a pick and go from the back of an attacking ruck but only makes a metre before being taken down.
78:04 Hooper joins the back of an attacking ruck and puts in a half-hearted shove which doesn’t have any real effect.
79:08 Hooper scavenges for the ball and manages to hold his ground against Dagg who tries to take him out. Cane then arrives at the ruck and blows him off the ball.
79:48 Hooper tackles Retallick 5m from the try-line.
That’s it!
Well, after that saga, it seems like the critics’ perceptions have been vindicated. For those that couldn’t be bothered reading the breakdown, here is a:
Summary
Attack:
I counted 15 runs for around 60 metres (espnscrum stats show 16 runs for 39 metres so perhaps I was generous in my estimation of his metres gained). He also gets turned over in one of his runs by McCaw.
Hooper joined 11 attacking rucks where he had a low impact (didn’t remove any defenders, just attached himself to the back of the ruck and offered little push).
Hooper joined two attacking rucks where he had a medium impact (was early to the ruck and removed a defender)
Hooper didn’t hit any attacking rucks with venom (blasting opposition out of the contact area).
There were also an additional seven instances where Hooper stood over the tackled player, braced for a ruck, but the opposition didn’t contest so technically there was no ruck formed.
Defence:
I counted nine tackles and one missed (same as espnscrum stats). None of these tackles were dominant though and wouldn’t have opposition runners in any fear whatsoever.
Hooper joined four defensive rucks where he had a low impact (didn’t cause any turnover or slowdown of play)
Hooper joined seven defensive rucks where he had a medium impact (tried to scavenge for the ball but was unsuccessful in winning a turnover)
Hooper joined one ruck where he had a high impact (successfully turned over the ball).
Conclusion
While this is an analysis of only one game, I’d suggest it’s a fair representation of Hooper’s performances and impact in 2014 more generally. I’d be happy to hear from Roarers who think this particular game was an outlier, but I very much doubt that was the case.
The critics were clearly wrong about Hooper not being a typical scavenging openside. Given my perceptions, I myself was surprised how often he got stuck in trying to get the ball back. The issue is that he’s ineffective with only one turnover in eight attempts and causing only a marginal slowdown of the opposition ball in the process.
Perhaps the weight of captaincy was impacting his game? Whatever the case, Hooper needs a big lift in his effectiveness in order to have an impact at the Rugby World Cup!
Richard Islip
Roar Rookie
I thought Hooper was outstanding throughout 2014, both for his franchise, and for the Wallabies. He is an incredible player as a forward, especially for one of his size. Without him operating at full steam for 80 minutes, as he does every game, the sides he represents are nowhere as effective. He has been this way since he started in big time rugby.....did he not get best player in his first international? He is badly managed in the Super 15. He plays every game for 80 minutes, and the coach never rotates and rests him. Crazy and stupid in this day and age, and I am always amazed that Hooper is full steam ahead the very next game. Amazed. By the time the International season comes around, players are already out on their feet, especially a guy like Hooper who is worth 3 players, and has not drawn breath. Try playing like he does as a loosie, in these high intensity games, week in and week out. Then comes a massively long international season, all bitterly contested games, and he has the captaincy thrust on him at age 22. This, the workhorse of the side. More Super 15, a final......no rest......and then on to those meaningless European tours, with the players dog tired and carrying injuries. Still the captain, and still playing every minute of the internationals, and still the standout Mr 80 minutes. Anyone blame the guy for supposedly being off the pace every now and then? He is actually a phenomenon, nothing less.
Tissot Time
Guest
what about this chap? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gji6NclA9t0
Bakkies
Guest
I say McCalman was the most consistent backrower on tour.
Bakkies
Guest
Apart from Fardy and maybe Moore there are no other players up front who are strong fetchers. A lot of the forwards still give away dumb penalties. The Wallabies are still reliant on the 7. Very outdated. Fabio would get away with what he does if others in the pack could win turnovers.
Bakkies
Guest
Harry the issue is the tight five. Even the great George Smith had quiet games while his tight five were getting stuffed.
Bakkies
Guest
Yet he was basically anonymous starting against a scratch side while made captain. In the words of Jim Telfer Hodgson wouldn't skin a cat. They have pinned the mast with Fabio. Not enough time and games for Gill to nail a start. Pocock is only relevant if he stays fit.
grapeseed
Guest
Your decision to argue over a six word comment in a 10 point post basically saying I liked Poey's safe hands and your out of hand dismissal of the role of a captain calming a kicker (albeit a good one) taking a tight kick for the national team in front of a packed stadium to win an incredibly tight series is just contrarianism. Poey has received plenty of balls from restarts (50 and 22), swept plenty of chip kicks and taken in plenty of Garry Owens in his 150 games of professional rugby for me to have formed an impression about his hands, and Mike Harris laughed when Poey handed him the ball for the kick, which is why he was asked about it after the game because it is such an unusual sight. But your patronising dismissal of the role of a 7 in following inside the ball from 10 out and the value in cutting down the unders line, the implacability of every one of your positions, your demand for justification of other people's opinions, the reduction to semantics of defining that a player can only be good at something if he does it often, rather than just the occasions on which he is required, is why debate with you can be an unrewarding exercise in futility. And the reason why I ejected from the debate in which you were so keen to engage. I am positive that you and I are the only ones reading this, so let's shake hands, agree to disagree, not demand empirical evidence from each other, and not presume anything about each other's rugby credentials or knowledge of the rules and structures of the game.
grapeseed
Guest
Look, I think Hooper is an excellent player, and I have never bagged him in my life. I think comments about hair and socks are pretty churlish. I do however understand the view that the back row in particular is about the dynamics between all three players, and in the Venn diagram of loose forward roles and responsibilities, no key responsibility can be left outside of the three overlapping circles, nor can the key ones exist in mutual exclusivity in one circle alone. I got very excited about Fardy when he seemed to offer that strength at the breakdown as well as a linking / wide running option. As we all know, that burst of form at international level was short lived. Matt Cockbain is my favourite 6 of all time because it was like he played every position from 4 - 8 at the same time. My original posts about QC and then Poey were meant to demonstrate that highlights videos do not tell the complex story of a player's involvement or worth in a team game. I am not quite anti-stats, but I am hugely sceptical of the story that they tell in the complex and chaotic (in the mathematical sense) environment of rugby. My eventual passive aggressive responses to you stemmed from your total contradiction of every one of my points, an exercise in contrarianism because you feel that Poey is being talked up and Hooper down. Don't make that presumption with me, it is a false dichotomy. Some people infer an inverse connection between two players of the same position (e.g. QC = good, therefore BF = bad). I am not one of those people. I will continue in another post to avoid mod..
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
And I'm unsure what the Pocock video is supposed to prove. Does not receive a single high ball, looks like a superstar with ball in hand against what looks like Japan, is the last man in as part of one maul defense once the momentum is slowing and takes a lot of pilfers. Most importantly if you understand the laws of the game (which I have taken time to - don't ask why, I have no idea - probably sick of being penalised to regularly as I play a game based on similar strengths), many of these could potentially be a penalty for not supporting his own weight (many he has one or both hands on the ground or the ruck - this is technically not considered to be supporting your own weight) or he continues to contest the ball, not having his hands on it before the ruck is formed (by the letter of the law, unless your hands are on the ball, before the attacking team joins the ruck, you must not contest). Excellent work to play to the referee and get the benefit. But if the writer of this article is going to criticise Hooper for potential breaches and claim that is therefore not worthy of any recognition, the great David should be held up to the same standard. Oh and Poey makes some good cover tackles. Nobody would say any openside does not - perhaps a late career Waugh at his slowest maybe.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
How dare I have a view that differs to yours and have the hide to offer logic as to why that view is correct in my view? People on this thread are ripping into Michael Hooper, one of the wallabies few strong performers, saying things such as he doesn't contest enough rucks, doesn't do enough grunt work, and doesn't slow enough rucks down compared to Pocock. For example I have said that Pocock, cannot possibly take many high balls, because if he's in the defensive line doing all this grunt work, slowing down and contesting rucks like people say he is, then how would he be back to receive kicks? It's simply not possible. In fact I'd argue that a 7 would be one of the most frequent positions to put pressure on the kicker (at least I always am). I have never even said Pocock isn't a good player. Personally I prefer Hooper, because I consider him to have a more rounded game, but would understand if an informed coach had an opinion that differed and felt Pocock offered more value. Is also agree he is much more professional than any alternative. I consider his game to be limited - but not many players are not limited in some way we must consider. Each position is selected to do a role in the team, so limitations and rounded games are not exactly relevant to selection sometimes. I am just noting the mythical status that Pocock's absense has seemed to give him among supporters. He is remembered as though every game he played was the 2011 RWC QF and all the games where he had a low impact such as the 2012 Scotland test and his RC tests before injury in 2012, are completely forgotten and seemingly wiped from the record.
grapeseed
Guest
Ok, I've found another video that probably more accurately sheds light on this whole matter. Pay particular attention around 1:52, but if you have time the whole thing is pretty illuminating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
We could find a highlight video of Quade's defense but that doesn't mean he's one of the greatest ever defenders. That means in isolated cases he did things. My point is a lot of these attributes you are saying David has, as a 7 he would very rarely be in position to perform, hence my comment that these were rare. To be considered good, he would need to be doing them with regularity, showing repeated execution, I.e. Good. A 7 is almost always in the line, so rarely would be under the high ball. He would most likely be getting to the very next ruck, being an openside he'd be expected to push back. If any forward would be in a position to field kicks, it would be the 8 who traditionally play as a 2nd fullback at times in many teams. Generally to use their ball running to return the kick. Much like the maul. As an openside who does not jump he would generally be at the back of the line out to break off at the 10. So 6 other players would join and defend in the maul prior to he would (with the hooker being as far away so likely around the same time). Really not sure how humour comes into this at all considering we aren't making jokes or lighthearted comments.
grapeseed
Guest
So your angst is over the line "His safety under the high ball" in a post about things I love about Poey, even after I pointed immediately to his fielding of a kick to set up Samo's try of the year. You have all the attributes I admire - Dogged persistence, implacable sense of your own rugby superiority, totally humourless, demanding justification for opinions you don't agree with, and lots and lots of time on your hands. Put if you must be proven wrong, then check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imUV3xbvdqk
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
You don't have time to explain how positional a 7 would be likely to receive high balls with any frequency, or how teams defend differently to how I have advised, but believe I should provide data of metrics which aren't measured on rugby, to support this claim? You can't even logically say how my proposals would be tactically or positionally incorrect. Why would an openside flanker ever be in position to take a high ball, which means they would not be in the defensive line?
Warwick Todd
Guest
Harry, Hooper is a fine player but I have to agree with your description "he PLAYS SMALL". I can think of no greater insult for an international forward although I'm sure you have not meant it that way. Hoopers role of wide running is really redundant when players like Kurindrani and Folau are in form and making ground consistently. You could even correlate Hoopers drop off in form with Kurindranis' rise last season.
grapeseed
Guest
I don't have time for all that. How about you provide me with empirical evidence that I am wrong? That way only one of use will be wasting our time.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
Most kickers for their national team do not hold the record for most consecutive goals. Actually, in 2014, none did from Super Rugby. Can you explain why an openside flanker would be in the position to receive a high ball? We would he be trailing back from the defensive line? After all, a high ball lands 10+meters behind. And what defensive pattern to teams use that differs from what I suggested? That's exactly how the Wallabies currently play. Jam up the backline and leave the winger free on the basis they will prevent the outside option.
grapeseed
Guest
I didn't agree with you at first, but after you repeated the exact same opinion, I now see that I was wrong on every point. I was wrong for not providing a list of every time David Pocock caught a ball securely or ripped it out of an opposition's hands. I have actually never even seen a midfield bomb or chip kick. I was wrong about believing that shutting down a blind winger running an outside line off the 5/8, or the I/C running unders off the 5/8, or a halfback turning the ball back inside to a forward runner had any merit. Most of all, I was wrong in taking Mike Harris at his word when he explicitly spoke about the influence of David Pocock on taking his series winning, after the siren kick. Because he is a good kicker with a high percentage. Unlike most kickers kicking for their national team. Don't believe what the others say about you, you do important work on this site keeping the opinions of others in line with your own. Over, and over, and over, and over again.
Train Without A Station
Roar Guru
Most professional teams jam the outside in defense. So pressuring the inside ball is contrary to most defense patterns. Players are easier to tackle in the tight then in the loose. That's why it's not necessarily a good thing. I'm not knocking Pocock for doing it, as I doubt he does because I doubt he would be coached to. That's great about that one that lead to Samo's try. That does not at all show that it's not rare for him to do it. I'd be concerned if he was taking many in fact, because that would mean he is hanging back out of the defensive line in the 2nd fullback role. Regardless of Harris' comments, my point was that Pocock likely didn't exactly influence him as he had either only just ended, or was in the middle of a Super Rugby record kicking streak. The endless gushing has been the past two years from all in sundry.
grapeseed
Guest
I admire your persistent contrarianism TWAS, it must be a burden being the resident opinion policeman on the beat today. Not sure how pressuring inside ball is a good thing? How about halving the options in attack and forcing them to play laterally by going wide early in the phase count. Every player completes tackles? I think tackle completion stats might disagree, anyway I said compete in the tackle. Tackles, and then get's immediately to his feet. Rarely seen him take a high ball? Have a look at how Radike Samo's try of the year started off. Can't remember seeing him keep an opposition ball carrier on their feet? Book in for a CT scan or talk to a South African. Haven't seen him defend a maul from a lineout? Check out the Welsh series 2012. Don't see how Pocock settled Mike Harris? I refer you to Mike Harris's post match interview several minutes after the kick. Endless gushing about him? One post in 170 on this thread. A thread about openside flankers. A post that used the words effective, strength and professionalism as its primary descriptors, hardly superlative language. Truculence is not a character strength Senior Constable TWAS. Are you a bit bored perhaps?