I first came across the Kangaroos rugby league team late in 1967. Having just arrived in Australia for our biannual holidays from our home of Papua New Guinea, I looked forward to cramming as much TV into three months as I possibly could.
Pretty early in the holiday (early November) cricket and rugby league appeared on my radar for the first time.
The 1967-68 Kangaroos had Reg Gasnier as captain-coach. Gasnier, or ‘Puff the Magic Dragon’, was one of the greatest ever rugby league players.
After playing in the first Test, a recurring knee injury kept him out of the remaining five internationals against Great Britain and France. By the time he returned for a midweek game in France, he realised his career was over at the age of just 28.
As with Bobby Simpson in cricket, I don’t remember much of him first-hand, and I take his selection mostly on trust, because he did appear in my time, if ever so briefly.
Others to end their Test careers in 1967-68 were Johnny Raper, Ken Irvine and Noel Kelly, although I continued to see them play over the next three to six years.
Sheek’s first Kangaroos 13 (1967-present)
Graeme Langlands, Ken Irvine, Reg Gasnier, Mal Meninga, Greg Inglis, Wally Lewis (vc), Andrew Johns, Noel Kelly, Cameron Smith, Arthur Beetson (c), Bob McCarthy, Ron Coote, Johnny Raper.
For the state conscious, the split is NSW 7-6 Queensland.
The NSW men are Langlands, Irvine, Gasnier, Johns, McCarthy, Coote and Raper, while the Queenslanders are Meninga, Inglis, Lewis, Kelly, Smith and Beetson. Ten of this team captained the Kangaroos, while all were or are club captains.
I know that today’s players are bigger, stronger and inherently faster than those of yesteryear. But the comparison is always about how each player dominated in his own time, and the influence he exerted.
That is the ultimate comparison.
As good as Inglis is, I’m happy for ‘Changa’ Langlands to be my fullback, with GI on the wing.
The hooking role has changed enormously in regards to the scrum. However, hookers can still be compared across the ages according to their play from dummy-half and in general. In this regard, Smith is unmatched.
I am 100 per cent happy and comfortable with every first team selection.
Sheek’s second Kangaroos 13 (1967-present)
Darren Lockyer, Andrew Ettingshausen, Laurie Daley, Brad Fittler, Kerry Boustead, Bob Fulton (c), Johnathan Thurston, Craig Young (vc), Danny Buderus, Glenn Lazarus, Paul Sironen, Bob Lindner, Ray Price.
The state split is NSW 9-4 Queensland.
While I have no problems with my firsts, there were plenty of 50-50 calls with my seconds. Lockyer, ET, Boustead, Fulton, Thurston, Buderus and the backrow are all locked in. But I concede the centres and props caused me plenty of grief, and there might be better alternatives if someone can convince me.
Mick Cronin, Steve Rogers, Brett Kenny and Gene Miles will have their cornermen in the centres, while alternate selections at prop are many – Shane Webcke, Petero Civoniceva, Paul Harragon, Steve Roach, Greg Dowling, Bob O’Reilly, John O’Neill and John Sattler.
Enjoy the debate, Roarers!
Pickett
Guest
Kangaroos 1. Slater 2. Grothe 3. Inglis 4. Renouf 5. Boustead 6. Wally 7. Langer 13. Clyde 12. Coote 11. Harragorn 10. Beetson 9. Cam Smith 8. Lazarus Emus 1. Lockyer 2. Shearer 3. Meninga 4. Rogers 5. Hancock 6. Kenny 7. Sterling 13. Price 12. Pearce 11. Gillespie 10. Webke 9. Steve Walters 8. Civenoceva Wombats 1. Brasher 2. Wishardt 3. Miles 4. Cronin 5. O'Connor 6. Thurston 7. Johns 13. Fittler 12. Lindner 11. Sironen 10. Roach 9. Buderus 8. Tunks Echidnas 1. Belcher 2. Carne 3. McGaw 4. Steve Ella 5. Ribot 6. Daley 7. Stuart 13. Brad McKay 12. Folkes 11. Fullerton-Smith 10. Spud Carroll 9. Elias 8. Dowling Notable exceptions: Steve Mortimer, Lamb, Lyons, Crusher Cleal, Gilmeister, Rambo Gibbs, Gary Larson, Matt Scott, Sam Backo
Jackson Henry
Roar Guru
Same here mate. In spades.
Jackson Henry
Roar Guru
Not sure I agree - as in I can't split the two - but it's a compairosn that really needs to be raised more often in my opinion. One of Langer's possible advantages is that he far less of Johns' natural phsyical capabilities...Johns could have almost played in the backrow, whereas Langer was always the smallest bloke on the field. And I think if you put Johns in those undermanned Langer-led Qld teams of the mid-1990s, you don't get a different result. From a footballing perspective, I've just seen Langer do the same thigns Johns did on the field...but only Johns ever seemed to get noticed for it. Anyway, it's not an anti-Johns argument, just that Langer needs to be in that conversation. If I had to select one or the other, it would probably be Johns, as he's more my style of halfback...but I think Langers supporters could feel justified in thinking that he's woefully underrated, despite all of what he achieved.
The Moondawwg
Roar Rookie
I will back you on that. Kid was magic,
The Moondawwg
Roar Rookie
Can I give you flak for no Baa Baa?? :P I am a born and bred Manly kid, but Baa Baa was always my fave. Awesomely balanced skill set and unmatched support play. In saying that, he would be unlikely to make the 1st 13, but a shoe in for 2nd in mine.
The Moondawwg
Roar Rookie
I think what helps Johns in many people's eyes is that he kept getting better in his twilight. Many play makers push at least a year further than they probably should.
Don
Roar Rookie
We tossed this subject around at the election while sitting at the bar at the Sunshine Beach SLSC. Maybe Glenn is smarter than all of us and saw PUP as the best vehicle to get elected (high profile and a swag of money to advertise) then, once in the senate, jump ship and be a true independent? Is he that smart?
Don
Roar Rookie
Fully understand your calls there Sheek and I agree with your feelings on Gordy, Beaver and Hindy. Thanks for the responses.
Mike from Tari
Guest
We can only relive our childhood & Kavieng was a great place to grow up.
tim
Guest
I may be the only person in the world to think it, but Matt Sing has to be my first choice winger. I'm pretty sure he's in the top ten NRL tryscorers of all time, yet he's (deservedly) more remembered for his defensive brilliance. A Queensland and Kangaroo regular, he had all the skills and effort.
Tripehound
Guest
I was only a young 'un when I saw any of the Aussies in the 70's so from an English view from 1980: 1. Darren Lockyer 2. Billy Slater 3. Mal Meninga 4. Brett Kenny 5. Eric Grothe 6. Wally Lewis (C) 7. Peter Sterling 8. Glenn Lazarus 9. Steve Walters 10. Les Boyd 11. Gorden Tallis 12. Wayne Pearce 13. Ray Price 14. Laurie Daley 15. Gene Miles 16. Petero Civoniceva 17. Steve Roach One or two blokes out of their regular specs but it's what I'd go with. Frank Stanton as coach (nostalgia choice, just remember him always being grumpy on the 82 tour although his side were licking who ever they played!) 12.
sheek
Roar Guru
Agreed Allanthus, 100%. it makes it hard to assess Brick purely on rugby league when you find yourself questioning his political judgement!
sheek
Roar Guru
Don, The problem I had was that after Raper & Coote, I thought it came down to McCarthy & Sironen. My only concern with Macca was his 15 tests, a bit thin. But he was injured a lot at critical times. But Siro & Lindner were probably the to strongest alternatives. Siro is perhaps viewed as lucky but I didn't think Tallis, Menzies or Hindmarsh were stronger candidates. Siro played some mighty footy at his best. His rampaging runs were something to see. Thaiday is a future possibility while I remain unsure of Gallen's best position. Guys lie Price & Clyde I saw as out & out locks, while Lindner was a lock/2nd row.
Don
Roar Rookie
Fair enough and I am a Lindner fan too so was happy to see him in your selections Sheek. My problem may be that I just didn't rate Sironen highly at all. If I could do a Tony Abbott style "captain's pick" that is a bit left field I'd go for Terry Randall. One of my absolute favourites as a very young boy watching footy. To be fair though and as much as I dislike him, on playing ability and his efforts for Australia I think Gallen would get in the second 13 ahead of Sirro or my suggestions.
sheek
Roar Guru
Hah Mike, Last night I texted a good mate & rabid Rabbitohs fan like yourself, for some last minute clarifications. He was deliberately unhelpful, providing me with a 1967-71 Souths player for every query I gave him! Q: McCarthy or Sironen. A: McCarthy (okay, that did make sense). Q: Changa or GI? A: GI (now I was getting suspicious, especially as I had told him I had GI on the wing). Q: Your 2nds props after Beetson & Kelly? A: O'Neill & Sattler (of course, now he was playing me). So, just to confirm he had totally lost all perspective, I asked one final question. Q: What's your preferred Kangaroos team of the last 50 years? Simms, Cleary, Sait, Inglis, R.Branighan, Pittard, Grant, Coote, McCarthy, Stevens, O'Neill, E.Walters, Sattler. Yep, the entire 1967-71 Rabbitohs plus GI.
Mike from Tari
Guest
What a coincidence Sheek, I was down on leave with my parents for 3 months at that time as well & my memory is of Eddy Waring calling the games a lot different to Rex Messup, I won't take part in your best of because being 16 & a mad Souths fan I would just name the Souths Aussie reps as the forward pack & throw in Big Artie, I'd throw in Wally & Johns as halves, GI & Paul Sait in centres, Irvine & Cleary wingers, Slater as the fullback.
Maroon Blood
Guest
100% Boxhead Walters was head and shoulders above Elias who was pretty much a one trick (dummy show and go) pony and an extremely selfish player. However, Turtle Conescu, whilst a solid, dependable hooker at club and Origin level is a distant third to the other two. Personally, I would also have Gene Miles ahead of Meninga just for his performances on the 86 Kangaroo Tour where he and Kenny made one of the best centre combinations..........ever!
Geoff Parkes
Expert
I know this isn't a political site, but it's a shame the big brick has tarnished his legacy by tying his sail to Clive Palmer's mast…. He should have followed Mal's lead instead.
sheek
Roar Guru
Onside, In terms of premierships, Lazarus won five. Noel Kelly never won a premiership but played in three losing grand finals for Wests against St. George (161-63). However, Kelly made three tours of Great Britain & France (1959/60, 63/64 & 67/68). Kelly wasn't particularly big but he was one of the hardest, toughest & when necessary, meanest players in the game. Definitely a man to have on your side. Beetson won two grand finals (1974/74) & would have won another with Balmain (1969) bar suspension. But to answer your question, not one of the other major props matched Lazza's number of grand finals. But that is merely one of a number of measures.
sheek
Roar Guru
Yeah true Will.