Pocock won't captain the Wallabies: Greg Martin

I had heard the same thing thing "we;re not into that" but it wasn't from Spiro.

So forget form and make Pocock captain. Riight!

Hooper finished in front of Pocock in that last game. Hooper is the incumbent loose forward. There are better 6s around than Pocock so he won't get in that way. Pocock has to make the squad first and then the team. Any talk of his captaining the side is very premature.

Pocock is only morally affected by trendy causes that so called progressives promote. They don't worry about real issues just imagined ones. They also tend to be absolute in their views, almost dogmatic. Yet, strangely, they don't worry about this philosophical conundrum. I often wonder how it is they can so offended by something said to someone who happens not to have been offended!! The height of ego I guess. The white middle class guilt in full affect. I see the same when doing work with charities in Nepal. They never seem to actually ask what the Nepalese want!? Enlightened, progressive seems to be just another god complex. And that is more of an issue, historically, than some derogatory remark made on a rugby field.

The issue is that, like Brett McKay said on the Green and Gold Rugby podcast, David stands up for causes that HE feels strongly about. As a captain, you need to stand up for the causes that are in the best interests of the team. His causes are laudable and standing up for them would no doubt help improve the moral fibre of the Wallabies, but may not foster the optimal team environment, likely impacting harmony.

Should the hooker throw the ball in incorectlry and the ref says skew , will pocock make a stand.

Whoops, sorry - you were abusing the tripe out of somebody else, not me, to win hearts and minds and support for your cause. Incidentally ...

“The Black Power salute was intended for an American audience based off their history, not Australia’s. ... two athletes being used as puppets for a radical group dedicated to the violent overthrow of the US government is a badge of honour, then Ryan I cant help you. Oh and other black athletes proudly won medals, carried their flag and sang the anthem too at those games you know ”

i honestly cant recall a single post against jp. he made a mistake and owned it and was generally applauded. the whinging has come from those complaining that he shouldnt have had to apologise

i agree that he shouldnt be captain because of his environmental protest. i fully support him doing it and cautiously support his stance in that case (i havent spent much time looking into the whole issue) i respect the fact that many people strongly disagree with this stance and their opinions are valild. the issue is very open and he has to be a captain for all australians. note this is in stark contrast to the homosexual issue where its cut and dried.

No goalposts have been moved, my position is consistent. The battle for tolerance in this country is long over. There is no epidemic of 'homophobia' in the broader community, people if anything are bored by it. See how dreary the Sydney Mardi Gras are. There is nothing edgy about them whatsoever. The Church is generally in the firing line, but wake me up when they have something to say about other religious groups. I wont hold my breath... I suggest that you open your eyes if you think ISIS is a far away problem. I suggest you read some of Bruce Bawers works. He and his male partner left the USA in the late 1990's as they felt marginalised by the Christian culture of their country. So they went to Europe in search of the promised land of tolerance and acceptance. They didn't find it, and each day it gets worse as the demographics slide more in favour of new arrivals who don't just disagree with homosexuality, but are actively engaging in wholesale violence against them. Not covertly, not in some dark alley, but in broad daylight, and at same sex functions. Amsterdam was once the homosexual capital of the world, but many consider it safe for them no longer. Its a trend spreading across all of western Europe and the UK. One by one these former bastions of acceptance are falling. My advice is to you Ryan is to broaden your vision and look what's coming. Once you approve of group rights, a hierarchy then develops whereby they are ordered in terms of importance. If we look at what's happening in Europe and Canada, then 'homophobia' may be the fad right now, but will lose every time once it comes up against a culture and religion that has no tolerance for same sex individuals. The ONLY way to prevent a repeat of that here, is for people to champion individual rights. 1) I didn't say anything about Cathy being cheered because of the flag, I said it was a shame people pushed her in that direction. Australians supported her performance, not her politics. 2) I thought my point was clear. At an Olympic Games in which they are representing their nation, they chose to dishonour themselves by supporting a radical Marxist group that advocated the violent overthrow of the US government. Other black US athletes at those games chose to be proud and honoured their nation who was proud of them. 3) The world is not an equal place, it never has been, never will be. I would love to play for the Wallabies like most people on this forum, but only a tiny few have the talent to do so. Apply that to any other field. Your utopia doesn't exist, it can never exist, as we are all different. Your utopia was tried. It was called communism. The beauty of our society is that all of us are free to pursue our goals and dreams. That's our natural right as individuals, governments cannot bestow it.

You've again entirely moved the goalposts to avoid facing up to the fact that what Pocock did was a justified reaction to a homophobic slur being used. What I was highlighted was the idea that homosexuality is a "non-issue" is fanciful and wilfully ignorant. I left aside the ridiculously disingenuous use of ISIS, the updated subject of Godwin's law, because there is a spectrum of issues for homosexuals and you know that. So to try and make this argument, that people should stop complaining because of what ISIS is doing and just be thankful for being in Australia, is a joke. What do you think causes the higher rates of homosexual domestic violence Dave? There's nothing disingenuous in that, it's an entirely separate argument to have. There is no clear reason or argument you've made there. Cathy Freeman wasn't cheered on by the entire country for raising her flag; again, don't be wilfully ignorant. To call Smith and Carlos "puppets" is to deny their agency and the impact they had on American culture, and doesn't answer the question of whether or not you'd have them not do it. Lastly, the idea that affirmative action is unnecessary because it's unequal only holds if you believe that the world is right now an equal place where racial bias does not exist and opportunities to succeed aren't influenced by skin colour. If you believe that, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

Greg M may well be right but if so it would simply confirm that Aus Rugby doesn't have the character to rise to the top of the world game in the near future. Pocock is exactly the sort of captain and leader this country's rugby side needs. He is principled and uncompromising and puts up with no nonsense. How long is it since we have seen that in our captain - Stephen Moore aside and he unfortunately only lasted 5 minutes.

My comment is a response to Dave, you are of no interest to me.

Oh my, my! You have become quite emotional, haven't you? Why the undisciplined vitriol at me when I've not expressed any opinion at all about the matters you set out here?

Your Captain is a Joke, my personal view he is an average player, but definitely is a Poor Captain Compare to Richie McCaw - Captain and a Man that ANY ALL BLACK would follow into Battle. Ex All Black Coach Graham Henry stated 'Better Men Make Better All Blacks" sums it up nicely. Pocock, and to lessor extent Moore show CONVICTION - MORALS - LEADERSHIP Hooper supports his Mates, no matter what they do. Pocock or Moore would have dealt with Beale, as McCaw would have done with one of his players. As a Kiwi Fan I'd hate Moore or Poey as Captain...the leadership they would bring is imense

Give me Pocock as a leader any day,has principles and is brave enough to stand up for them,shows how an education can get you past the bottom feeders.Have trouble with the comment the well respected Greg Martin,not true and never likely to be I.M.O. Ask your self,what type of character would make homophobic comments in the heat of battle? must be an uneducated cretin to start worrying about an opponents sexual leanings in this situation,rather lucky to have a brain big enough to allow him to earn $20ks.

Just a quick comment. Pocock hasn't shown enough to even make the wallabies starting side, making all this captaincy talk, just talk...

Your statistics gloss over a very important point Ryan. I could copy and paste most of your paragraphs to support my own argument. You are being incredibly disingenuous in not pointing out that same sex violence (physical, sexual and emotional), is significantly higher than in the heterosexual community. Much like study after study shows that minority groups tend to be over-represented as victims of violent crime - the perpetrators are drawn from the same community. Until recently few people had the courage to delve into this topic, but fortunately that is changing. The School of Medicine at Northwestern University just last year published its results of four studies of more than 30,000 participants. It found that between 25%-75% of lesbian, gay, and bisexual people have experienced domestic violence. The disparity in the numbers is because this often goes unreported. This is less a wider community issue, and more something that needs to be addressed on an individual level by same sex people. You make it sound as if there are 'homophobes' in the general public just waiting around every corner. Its simply not the case. As I said, its a non issue and stand by it. When the Mardi Gras start getting cancelled because spectator's are hurling stones and invectives against the participants, when gay people are being deliberately targeted by the broader Australian community on the basis of their sexuality then you have something. As it stands you don't. You are basing your arguments on emotion. People suffer depression or are stereotyped for any number of reasons beyond our control. Those are first world problems however Ryan. As we speak, homosexuals are being summarily executed by ISIS. As are women, children and any apostate who refuses to abide by their code. In Iran, Ahmdinejad's boasts that "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like you do in your country. This does not exist in our country". This guy means it. The state executes homosexuals. Many people suffer from depression at some point for a whole host of reasons, some trivial others not so much, most of which are beyond their control. At the end of the day however, these are termed first world problems. We all have them to some extent and we naturally sympathise. Furthermore, there are charitable groups and societies that do a commendable job helping people with the problems that you describe. Don't for a second compare the lot of Australia's 'victim groups' with that of the real world and expect some kind of moral equality acknowledgement from me however. For I do have empathy for people - those suffering actual torture and real discrimination as I described. To answer your other questions: 1) Cathy had the entire country willing her on each step of the way. She wasn't running to jeers. The fact that she is Aboriginal sure can hopefully encourage other Aboriginals to great heights, but no, making the political gestures as I say were unnecessary. Her success is the proof that our society gives everyone a shot. Its a shame people would use her to drive a social agenda. 2) The Black Power salute was intended for an American audience based off their history, not Australia's. That being said, if you think two athletes being used as puppets for a radical group dedicated to the violent overthrow of the US government is a badge of honour, then Ryan I cant help you. Oh and other black athletes proudly won medals, carried their flag and sang the anthem too at those games you know 3) I suggest that considering the stated policy of the SA government is to have 5 non white starting players at the World Cup then we would be hypocrites not to boycott SA once more. I take it you will be leading this fight on the forum right Ryan? Do give my warmest regards to the thought police

No, sounds like he sets a good example. Forbes actually ran an article listing the Top 10 qualities of leaders as follows: 1. Honesty 2. Ability to delegate 3. Communication 4. Sense of Humour 5. Confidence 6. Commitment 7. Positive Attitude 8. Creativity 9. Intuition 10. Ability to Inspire Whilst we would all agree David smashes some of these out of the park, I would be surprised if items like 2, 3, 4, 7, 9 and 10 would be were he would struggle. People will surely disagree with 10. Putting in inspiring performances and the ability to inspire are 2 different things. As a leader in rugby, he needs to be able to inspire the other 22 players on the team to perform at their best. My hypothesis that he is potentially too intense and meticulous to be able to relate to many players.

"He’s an excellent role model and the consummate professional." Sounds like a leader to me.