Which AFL small forward would you rather? Wingard, Walters or Elliott?

I'd take a fit Mark LeCras ahead of any of these guys. He's been injured for 2 years, he was the AA small forward before that injury. He's now injury free and he's started the season strongly and he will only get better as he gets more game time. Walters would be my next pick out of your group of 3.

"Look I know you’re attached to your “Rick’s Catchall Theory of Everything that Proves He Is the Smarteiest of Them All” Try to keep stuff like this out of a discussion Dal. It makes your argument look pretty weak.

Oh right, so you mean the bad examples like the one about the same plan executed poorly and well by two different teams, bad example? I guess the one you used was so much better, what with Clarkson being at the Hawks for all those years with different game styles and plans leading to two separate periods of success? I'm not sure the "detracting" ( although the more appropriate verb might be downplay) from game plans thing is really much of a point, surely that's exactly what I'd be expected to do if I was saying game plans are oversold. Look I know you're attached to your "Rick's Catchall Theory of Everything that Proves He Is the Smarteiest of Them All", so anything that might challenge the inflexible categories that come with it get you all itchy defensive. But I think those examples I used (and even the ones you give) fit the "game plan as more just part of the package" quite nicely.

"Although I would say game plans aren’t as central to success as they can be made out to be, as opposed to their execution" That's what we are arguing. Both are important. My argument, however, just highlights the importance of games plans, where as yours detracts from it. Not sure what else you can make from these comments Dal. I simply used some of your examples and explained why I thought these were poor examples using information this year from senior coaches and selectors. It's amazing what you can pick up by listening to the foremost authorities in the AFL and more importantly, learning from it. I don't disagree with you that execution isn't important. I just don't agree that it's more important and I certainly don't think you have used very good examples to make your point for all the reasons stated.

I'm not convinced that you're quite sure what you are arguing against Rick. Really all those points you have listed aren't in any way inconsistent with the point I made above and in fact can be used to support it. It seems that you see success starting with the plan/style and working it's way down from there, whereas the view I'm taking is that success driven by the components, of which the plan/style fits in the mix. There's also gradients of this that may get lost in being polemical about it.

I'll take that as a yes Don, you did make those comments. Nice chatting with you as usual. Again good luck to your boys on the weekend.

That's the whole idea of tipping. The Port game, we dominated until injuries to 4 players. You actually seem to have no idea how many players Freo had out at the end of last year. Add the new draftees, there are probably more than 10 that would walk into other AFL sides. And, yes, with 2 of McPharlin, Johnson, Ibbotson or Silvagni, Freo probably would have won the flag. I'll unsubscribe to this article now, though because you'll pop a vein soon in the strange anger that you have adopted. Tiarne's article doesn't need that.

Ahh, so this is the argument you are making now. Correct me if I'm wrong though, because after all my comprehension appears to be a little off: So 7 months on, the WAFL now has 10 players that could quite easily come in and cover not just the best player in the competition, but two of your other primary midfielders. After all, this is the crazy notion you are suggesting, but again correct me if I'm wrong. “If, however, we were to lose Fyfe, Mundy and Hill, our reserves cover is there” Don, these comments I would normal take as tongue-in-cheek, and they are nothing more than this. As such, I just don't bother commenting on them usually, particularly with someone like yourself. The problem I have with your comments is you like to shift from arrogance to excuses within minutes of each other. So to finalise this, lets assume for a second that you are absolutely right, and the WAFL does have 10 of the best players the competition is likely to ever see. Did you in the lead up to the first final last year against Freo and the Swans tell everyone how the Dockers were going to beat the Swans, despite all the injuries? Did you not show a touch if arrogance by stating that injuries will not matter due to the Dockers superior depth? Now I'm 100 per cent confident you did, and if I could be bothered I could ask the editors to send me a copy of last years threads in the lead up to the finals and 'copy and paste' your comments from them. Since I really can't be bothered and the editors wouldn't bother either, it's much simpler to just ask you to be honest on this issue. Did you make those comments Don? Kind of makes for an awkward argument for you if you did, and makes I liar of you if you didn't. Talk about being between a rock-and-hard-place hey!

Right now Walters for me. But potentially Wingard could surpass him. But really enjoy watching all the small forwards in the league. Nothing better than the little mozzies buzzing around at ground level and then seeing them jumping on people's heads! It's the way footy should be played!

As I said with GC, Rodney Eade could be a problem. I still think they have the class to finish top 4. North, top 4. West Coast might still make top 8...depends on players like Sinclair coming back and being able to hold down a key position. With their key backs all going down...and they now have 8 first picked players out, they are unlikely to be top 4. If that's the case, I'll slip Port or the Dons in there. (Port will have to make some adjustments to defensive work in their midfield.) Hawks and Sydney will slide once they play better opposition.

You keep cutting and pasting my comments... They are two different seasons. You have a real comprehension problem.

“Maybe the only weakness is that we have 10 players each week who would get a game in any other side but are missing valuable experience by having to play WAFL only.” “That beast was going to be unleashed last year and it was…to a degree. It was hindered by the instability at each end with Walters only playing 8 games (and Mayne playing injured) and, of course, McPharlin, Johnson, Ibbotson and then even Silvagni, going down.” Your words buddy, not mine. You seem to want to have multiple arguments with me for some reason. I'm well aware it's 2015. If you don't want to talk about the past, or believe it has little relevance then I suggest you stop defending it with comments that make no sense. You just can't escape your own comments Don, that's the beauty of the internet. You would be wise to remember that. BTW - your comment about Freo finishing 2-3 games clear at the top. I believe this is possible (although unlikely), but where did you have WC, North and GC finishing again this year?

They're not contradictions...just a lack of comprehension on your part, Rick. You have your agenda that locks previous years into this year as if it is all one and the same. This year as I...we...have illustrated endlessly, is this year. You seem to characterize what happened last year as an 'excuse'. It is an explanation...an irrefutable one. Those injuries did happen (to key defenders before the game but, more pertinently, to 4 players in the first half in the Port game). The round 23 game and game one this year...and the first have in the final...indicate Freo's quality. They are not that way now so this year's possibilities have no relevance to last year.

"It wasn’t the start of the year that stuffed them Rick, you could look squarely at that St Kilda game. Win that and they would’ve finished top two." Come on dal, you lost 4 of your games in the first half of the year to the teams who ultimately finished above you. Premiership teams don't allow this. "you could look squarely at that St Kilda game" I didn't expect this of you Dal, you are starting to sound like Don with excuses. You do realise even if you did win that game you would have needed to beat the Saints by over 300 points to finish 2nd right? Even if this miraculously did occur, what makes you think the Hawks would not have then taken you seriously later in the year knowing a home game final would then be on the line should the above scenario have occurred? You don't seriously think a team that trashed you earlier in the year who was assured a home final at this stage wasn't easing themselves into the finals like all good teams do? This is precisely why you want to finish second for home ground advantage and the ability to ease off at the back end. Sydney did it against Richmond and then beat you guys up and thrashed a very good North 2 weeks later. Geelong did it leading into all three of their premiership wins and is considered todays template on how you list manage leading into a finals campaign. Don "So many non-Freo folk, when overwhelmed by the 2015 juggernaut, go back to 2014, 2013 or trophy cabinets, somehow thinking that will stop Freo’s momentum." I simply come here to talk football. If I didn't I wouldn't bother chatting to this extent. One thing though. I can appreciate confidence, perhaps a little arrogance also. However, arrogance coupled with contradicting excuses always equals a sore loser. Good luck on the weekend. I'm really looking forward to seeing your boys play the Swans. I think you will get up, but it's going to be one hell of a contest for you.

"Likewise a plan that doesn’t work for one team (Tigers), can be used devastatingly by another (Hawks)." You make that sound like the Hawks copied the Tigers game plan, when we both know it happened the other way around. What you have said sounds really good, but that's just not how it happens in reality. You make it sound so easy, but this is the reality of how it actually works from Dunstall's perspective when it came to the appointment of Clarkson: Clarkson presented before the selection board and outlined his vision of where AFL is heading and how he believed he could help the Hawthorn Football Club achieve their ultimate aim, that being to win the AFL premiership. His game plan did not convince a majority of the board with Dunstall and Brereton (both on the selection board) having vastly different opinions as to who would be best for the job and what game plan. Dunstall won out and he believed Clarko's game style was of sound foundation and in 2005 he was appointed the Hawthorn senior coach. He advised the selection board of the types of players he specifically wanted and as a collective unit they constructed a list based upon his vision of a future premiership winning team. This came to fruition 2 years quicker than expected, and has ultimately turned into a era of dominance now. For you to say the Tigers tried to copy this last year to make one of your points does not take into account the reasons as to why this failed. Perhaps Hardwick couldn't comprehend the Hawks complex game plan either? "even the novel advantage of the most innovative plans only lasts for so long these days" That would be 8 years nows with 3 premierships to boot, along with countless finals wins. Teams are still chasing the Hawks tail, just ask any Sydney player from last year. "And all that can change within a season" But they don't, well not for the top teams anyway. On the 'Round Table' 1 week before the start of the season, Clarko, Horse and the two Scott brothers were all on it together. Horse explicitly made reference to game plans and how between years most teams do not change that much, only making subtle (but important) changes to their game style. All of the coaches agreed with this. Game plans are the foundation to building a winning team. Rosco has a good foundation and he is making subtle tweaks to it, probably a bit more this year than last. No team can just go out and 'copy' his game plan, it just doesn't work like this readily and is why you see the same teams at the top for long periods. Go have a look at the ladder for the past 5 years and tell me I'm wrong. Your right though, we do disagree, on most things might I add. I'm of the belief you can't polish a turd and this will hold true for 10 of the teams in the AFL at present until they structure up correctly.

Just to get this back on track...Balthazar, I know you don't agree but I think Ballas is still a greater value small forward than Sonny. Ballas' crazy run is unmatched...probably by anyone who has ever played the game. I'm not saying he runs faster or further (although he might), I am suggesting he has invented a way of playing forward pocket that has never been played until he arrived. He is like Velcro to any defender that has the ball, whether 2 metres away or 50 metres away. He seems attached to them by elastic bands. Yet, when in attack, he is like mercury.

Rick, you seem to think we are still in 2014. There is far more depth in 2015. Experience, return from injury, the draft... So many non-Freo folk, when overwhelmed by the 2015 juggernaut, go back to 2014, 2013 or trophy cabinets, somehow thinking that will stop Freo's momentum. Give me Natalie's 'bring it on' attitude any day. That's fun.

It wasn't the start of the year that stuffed them Rick, you could look squarely at that St Kilda game. Win that and they would've finished top two.

That's where we disagree, a seemingly crap song can be made good with the right interpretation. Likewise a plan that doesn't work for one team (Tigers), can be used devastatingly by another (Hawks). Game plans offer cohesion to a team as much as anything else, and even the novel advantage of the most innovative plans only lasts for so long these days. Any game plan (read style) can be as flexible and tweak-able, or as monolithically monochrome as the coaching staff and players are capable of making them. And all that can change within a season, depending on what elements of the roster are available.

Don your missing my point again. Go read what I said again. You are 3-0 this year, which gives you a good shot at 2nd spot should you win this week. You have fecked up 3 years straight now and need to finish 2nd to have a real chance at the flag, especially when you are trying to win it from the West. This of course is my opinion, but if you want to argue Freo can win from anywhere then go right ahead. Finish 2nd and you will be tough to beat. They messed up at the start of the season in 2014, you and I both know it. Spin it however you like, but it cost you and it wasn't because of injuries. Did you see the Hawks complaining about injuries through the 2014 campaign? Did it stop them from finishing 2nd? No, yet they still managed to deal with it despite having more injuries throughout the season than Freo. Don't try to spin that into injuries during the finals either to change the argument, you know exactly what Im saying here now. As a result you had to play Sydney in Sydney who beat you up badly. Irrespective of injuries you were always going to lose against that Sydney outfit in Sydney. Hell, you might even lose this weekend, which is why it's match of the round. You then got beaten by a far fitter Port team who were fresh after pummelling a dismal Tigers outfit. You have yourselves to blame and hiding from it changes little, but you can learn from it. With regards to these comments further up" "BTW, do you think those injuries last year actually didn’t happen?" Of course I believe they happened. You really didn't read what I said did you? Does this mean I believe you could have won the flag without those injuries in the finals? Probably not, but I do think you could have possibly won the flag if you finished 2nd with no injuries. I also think if you finished 2nd and had all those injuries at the end you give yourself a chance. That chance was gone the moment you had to play 3 tough games to even get to the GF. Was never going to happen for you.