MASCORD: Star Trek vs Star Wars, and how this all relates to Josh McGuire

I thought this was pretty simple. Yeh have your rules that make eligibility between NSW and QLD. They SHOULD be stand alone rep trials for the Australian side. Like I wrote last year: run a mini series between the island nations to see who plays Australia, NZ and England at the end of the year while origin is on so that we have more than just one game each weekend over the period. Piss the ANZAC test off! By donning the blue or maroon Jersey you are pledging your allegiance to Australia first and foremost. If you aren't selected for Australia and you have roots that make you eligible for another 2nd tier country then by all means go help them come up to international standard. That doesn't go for England and NZ though. They can bugger off. Thorne should never have represented QLD after playing for the All-Blacks.

Its not difficult to pick two SOO teams from NRL players who have pledged allegiance to the Kangaroos. People might suggest that those two State teams are no longer "the best of the best". Well if that is the case and if there are so many talented NRL players not participating in SOO then it shouldn't be difficult to organize a Test Series at the same time as SOO - say NZ vs UK and Samoa vs Fiji. Let the fans decide for themselves which series is the better one to watch. We all want to see minnow teams "beefed-up" and the current heritage rules allow for that. But the idea of representing 2 nations becomes farcical when players are allowed to oscillate between two nations. The eligibility rules need to be drafted to provide some stability. For example, players like Adrian Lam and Anthony Minichiello participated in SOO and were therefore potential Kangaroos - but they only played for their second-tier heritage Nation after making themselves ineligible for SOO. But when Toni Carrol played for the Kiwis in the 2000 World Cup, that was an absolute farce.

what nonsense. The restriction on the number of flip flops is due to the international rules (as determined by the rlif I believe). To think Oz allowing non-Ozzies to play origin is the solution is misguided, to say the least.

Well, I believe you will find that Oz is indeed home for MCGuire, as it is also for Hoffman and Nightingale. And as it was for Cayless, Webb, Fein. Just to name a few. So, your argument lacks logic, which is often the case, I have found. One of the symptoms of the Kiwi victim mentality. Apparently, the poor Kiwi is a perennial victim to ocker under-hand tactics. Origin is really just a ruse to steal the best players, especially"Kiwi" ones, or so goes the conspiracy theory. Never mind the fact that the eligibility rules have been changed, in a discriminatory fashion some might argue, so that eligibility is now stricter for origin than it is for Oz national honours. It seems that it is you, Ra, along with Mascord, who want to play immigration officer. So your accusations are amusing, at best.

Hey fatu bro. QLD and NSW are not national sides and neither are their players necessarily the best in the NRL. The Samoan side proved that it has the talent pool to foot it against the best in the international arena. The Tongans aren't too far short. I think the Sa's would have given the Aussies a real good go if the didn't throw everything they had against their Kiwi brothers. The Samoan and Tongan administration should be pushing the NZRL and ARL for their sides to tour both countries playing against NSW City Country sides and same again against QLD equivalents or touring NZ with matches against NZ Residents, NZMaori and Warriors. That will help them grow and be more beneficial for the game.but unlike you bro, I don't see SOO as the pinnacle. Just some ideas.

I agree with you Magic Man. That's how most of us feel. But I don't have any allegiances to any of the state sides. I do however love the game and love the play of individual players regardless of what colour they wear. I felt privileged to have been at the Indigenous NRL match down Gold Coast this year and it was great to sit back and just enjoy all the games from my neutral position as Kiwis supporter. I wondered to myself, how many of those kids in the u16 match will go on to rep NSW or QLD in adult life, or wear a black shirt or play for an island nation or NRL club or none at all. The Jillaroos operated with maroons-like efficiency in the girls game but there were three Amazing athletes in the Indig girls side who have gotta be in their wider training squad, two of them should be on the track, just blinding speed. The club scene in QLD looks so Pasifika the Sydney scene probably looks the same, the NRL is going to get swamped if it's going to continue to try to play immigration officer and the gene and talent pools for SOO selectors to pick tru blu ozi ockers for their states sides will become harder The NZRL needs to take a leadership role in supporting the Pacific nations to grow their own game from the board room down. It took us years to crawl out from under that heavy foot called the Australia Rugby League to get some recognition from big brother that we have left home and working on getting our own house in order. We helped our Pasifika brothers in so many different ways, supporting their admin will be good for the game. I see Australia as a place of work for a lot of our people but it's not home. And it's not home for many of us under the immigration act. But if you're a great sporting talent willing to change allegiances, it's amazing how quickly the red tape can be sliced through. Nah, I think that kid born in Toowoomba, Logan or Orange with deep intergenerational roots should be repping the maroons and the blues, and the NZRL and island nation administrators supporting their local organizations to grow their Australian based competitions for homeland representative sides e.g. Maori and Samoan communities in QLD and NSW have their own tournaments and rep sides much like Murri and Koori do. We need to grow them to groom rep sides, then smash the blus and the maroons lol.

Isn't it 33 per cent of NRL premier player of Pasifika including Kiwi heritage and a great deal more at feeder club level ? It would be ignorant or event arrogant to suggest NRL not take an interest. How about NRL putting out a memo to all affiliated clubs and schools in Australia to allow only those who have sworn allegiances to Australia to be able to take the field. Would that help you ? At the moment the NRL is bullying school kids with Aussie patronage. It's helping SOO selectors by working with the immigration department to identify good Aussies who have been sadly misguided by their parentage into thinking they maybe Samoan or kiwi by running a mustering yard and calling it a representative weekend. Now that Josh McGuire has PROVED he's too good to rep Samoa, embarrassed the Kangaroo selectors at the 4nations by being one of the players of the tournament he has to be remind by the NRL he was born and bred in Queensland and his heritage bloodlines are no longer relevant because he's a good Aussie boy. I'm really interested to know where is the ARL. The RLIF is doing a good job developing the game at that level. The NRL has put it's hand up to rep the ARL at that level too. Wellington won't get the nod for the next NRL franchise. I mean to say, how many Aucklanders do you know swear allegiances to the Aussie flag? Exactly my point.

Jay C I like your point you make there. So all those players with Pacific Island heritage playing at NRL level should rep their Island nations at international level eh. I'm intrigued by how the NRL has become such a power base in world rugby league now. It seems to have grown this influence equivalent to the American war machine as a global world power. The ARL seems like a figure head only in Australia these days. Mean while NRL is bullying kids in school yards to swear allegiances to the Aussie flag or don't bother lacing on boots cause they won't get anywhere in this country if they don't. And on the other hand it's running international tournaments with Pacific nations as trial matches for SOO coaches to pick through who they want from the cream of the crop and shoulder tap them about their forgotten pladge.

"You are either Australian or Samoan." That's not true. It's actually possible to be more than one. How that translates into sporting selection, though, is another topic.

Star Trek is science you can measure and Star Wars is science you can't. Star Wars is the far more insightful and intelligent of the 2 but logic has no room for the power the mind and emotion. Enter quantum physics. Star Trek is what we do understand and Star Wars is what we will. Sport exists purely due to emotion and our base human instincts. Origin delivers this in a greater way than anything else Australian sport can offer. Your obsession with the international game is very admirable but clouding your judgement. "The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is."

There are plenty of players out there who consider themselves true maroon Queenslanders but also consider themselves to be from a Pacific Island country or of Polynesian background. I can accept that... it's part of living in 2015. I think Origin should be totally separate from other international eligibility. Yeah keep the 13 year old criteria... that way you keep origin for players desperate to play for the state and not just chasing the $90k. But following that those players can play for their respective nations. It's obvious in the case of Alex Johnston that Origin is no longer a selection trial for Australian national honours anyway. It's become a stand alone beast. It's time to make the most of that.

As a an Australian of samoan heritage born and raised here and staunch victorian till i die, that is not nrl's job but rlif's job, who i might add, sat on their ass for 60 fn years doing squat all. You got to remember the rugby league world cup started before the 'turkish wrestlefest' that is the rwc, by a good 30 or 40 years, from the amateurism to a showpiece they put on today. All i'm saying is, it is a process that people need to recognise and you have to build foundations for them to become towers of awesomeness. The point given by paul kent on nrl 360 was that state of origin was not built in day and that it took time for it to become the jewel that it is today. But what irks me as a diehard fan of the nrl product is that we constantly being compared to other global sports leagues and how prestigious and worldly they are, i didnt know that europe was the world. NRL are good as they are and 5k to 20k fans doesnt look good to other fans world wide on tele but dont tell me their not patriotic about their clubs, we love our clubs and have so much expectations for them. Sorry to offend esl, but i find it insulting equally to compare the nrl product with players killing each other in fierce competition and intensity week in week out to a 3rd tier super league with some teams that decide to turn up and others nonchantly dont, quite frankly that is an insult to a NRL fan or rugby league person in general. Like i said at the start i am an Australian of samoan heritage, played my junior football in the qrl scene for easts springwood, i support the broncos and when it comes origin time every young kid white, brown and black from country qld to north qld and brisbane you were riding the maroon waves and enamoured with the 7:30pm wednesday timeslot 3 times you were a qlder. I was headless chook when it came to origin i just hate those blues because as stupid as it sounds but i describe as if i were to don a qld jersey i have represented my country because you were the best. So as much as i support international rugby league, that is rlifs job, i love the kiwis drawing out the win from us as long as it is nswelsh men donning green and gold or Toa samoa being competitive as long as they develop their own and not rely on heritage players because they being samoa, poms and kiwis might be entitiled to our talent because they dont put effort and resources to develop their owns, that is their job. To be quite honest the players develop themselves to be nrl players and then origin and you cannot fault them for that. Our players and fans in the NRL shouldnt be criticised for loving origin and not the internationals.Kiwis,poms and others wouldnt stand a chance against the intensity of qld or nsw fans or people have for their teams instead of the awesome Australian Kangaroos. RLIF should step it up. For the kiwis and poms who think it is a changing of the guard, yeah right, put those blokes in maroon or sky blue jerseys and they would rip your heads off. In the oz jumper that might be acceptable to lose 3 in row to those kiwis in the arena that is origin, that is not acceptable. If only the kiwis could play the truly best qld and nsw. If only rlif and english retirement league could get their acts together.

But they are Australian. Most only have very tenuous links to the other nations they choose to represent. If people want players to commit to one nation only then that will be the death of International league. Nobody would choose to represent the minnows. It simply isn't viable for them due to a lack of games and money. For example if Jarryd Hayne was told that by representing Fiji it would have jeopardised his chance to play for Australia then he never would have played for them. And Fiji would have been robbed of having one of the games greats shining the spotlight on a sport that is not well known in a country that is rugby union mad. Having Australians represent these minnow nations has far more benefit for those nations than it does for Australia. It raises the profile of the game in these countries where League is barely even recognised. If the International game is to grow then they need to start playing more games. So the ball is firmly in the court of the RLIF. That's where journalists should be venting their frustrations. Not at the low hanging fruit of Australians choosing to represent Australia.

Juggernaut He can play for Aus that is no problem but don't you think it is funny how he plays for Samoa before the State of Origin and than comes back in the same year and plays in the State of Origin and than he is all of a sudden eligible to play for OZ too? Why can't NRL stick to a rule that if you swear allegiance to one country than you are not eligible to play for another country until the next year??? This would be fair... It is like having players from City Vs Country being eligible for QLD selection... This seems to go in favor of OZs and not the other nations....

In order for the International game to grow, and for minnows to become attractive for those who have never set foot on their shores but have "heritage", then simply more games need to be played. You are focussing on the wrong issues Steve. Start attacking the RLIF who, from what I have seen, have achieved nothing in trying to build the game since they put on the 2008 RLWC, 8 years (!!!) after the previous one. League simply isn't played on these Island nations. Or at a very insignificant level. Konrad Hurrell before moving to Auckland Grammar from Tonga on a rugby scholarship never knew League existed. The International game has potential. But focussing on Australians, like Josh McGuire, who only qualify due to a parent (who ironically is a born and bred Kiwi of Samoan descent) and have never lived there, is not going to solve the dire situation facing the International game. Of the 34 players who took part in the Tonga v Samoa game of league last year, only 3 were born outside of Australia and New Zealand. These players aren't going to commit to their nation of "heritage" if it isn't viable long term. And to make it viable they need to be playing multiple games per year. But alas, the RLIF have done bugger all to achieve this. That isn't the NRL's problem. If you want to be taken seriously Steve, start focussing on the real issues. Not that an Australian born and bred player has chosen to represent the country he has lived in his entire life.

When you make your Professional Rugby League debut, chose a nation and stick with it. If a player with heritage for another country chooses Origin and Australia than tough titties. If you were born and lived in another country for 10+ years than you have to represent that country. It's not the NRLs job to prop up international rugby league, it's the RLIFs job.

Josh McGuire is Australian for one, hardly see how that is Australia being selfish. McGuire was born and raised in Australia, he has lived here all his life, yet people like you are having a cry because he'll be playing for Aus?

agree jay c, propping up teams with heritage players instead of playing for their country of birth and where they have lived their whole lives is not the way to go. no one has asked Josh who he wants to play for?

Don't label me as ignorant. I know and understand exactly what the proposed rule change is, and what it proposes to do to origin and I'm still dead set against it because qld and nsw are part of australia. If you're eligible for samoa, how can you be eligible for qld or nsw? It's an australian rep game. I'm all for propping up these nations, but not artificially. By all means assist them financially to develop their own players. Doing it that way will strengthen the game long-term. Steve wants this change cause it'll mean an artificially competitive 2017 World Cup.

Costigan and lam weren't heritage players anyway, they were born there