The Cleveland Cavaliers faced an uphill battle to beat the Golden State Warriors in the NBA Finals even before Kyrie Irving suffered a season-ending knee injury in Golden State’s 108-100 Game 1 victory.
Now, it is extremely unlikely that the Cavaliers will prevail.
How will this series affect LeBron James’ legacy? If the Cavaliers lose, James will drop to 2-4 in the NBA Finals, a far cry from the Finals records posted by Bill Russell (11-1), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6-4), Magic Johnson (5-4), Michael Jordan (6-0), Tim Duncan (5-1) and Kobe Bryant (5-2).
NBA Finals records do not mean everything. They are affected by the quality of one’s teammates, the quality of the opposition, injuries and other factors beyond the control of any one player.
NBA Finals records should not be completely dismissed, either. A great player is defined by winning championships or, at the very least, performing well in championship level play. Jerry West ‘only’ won one championship but he performed at a high level in the NBA Finals for teams that just were not good enough to beat Russell’s Celtics in the 1960s and the New York Knicks in the early 1970s.
Some people think that West would be considered a loser and not ‘Mr Clutch’ if he played in the current era but I hope that in any era most people would have enough sense to realise that the Lakers’ losses were not West’s fault. West is still the only player from the losing squad to win the Finals MVP (1969).
Some great players never played for a team that was good enough to win a championship. It would not be fair to define their careers solely by the absence of a championship ring on their resumes.
That said, none of the players who failed to win a championship are typically mentioned in the greatest player of all-time conversation. Are they not in that conversation because they never won or did they not win because, at least in part, they were not quite good enough to belong in that conversation?
That is a question for another day. James owns two rings and he is in the greatest player of all-time conversation. It is fair to consider his Finals record but that record should be placed in context and no one particular game, series or playoff run should be given disproportionate weight.
A few years ago, a writer asserted that one particular upcoming playoff game would be the defining moment of Kobe Bryant’s career. Bryant had already won three championships by that time. Bryant’s Lakers won that particular game convincingly and went on to win two more championships.
After Bryant’s Lakers won that game, the writer dismissed the game as unimportant.
Let us not make that same mistake with James now. One game, series or season should not be hyped up out of proportion to fit some preconceived storyline, only to be diminished or magnified after the fact depending on whether or not the outcome suits the commentator’s biases.
If the Cavaliers beat the Warriors, that will not automatically make James the greatest player of all-time. If the Warriors beat the Cavaliers, that will not preclude James from being considered for that mythical title.
During his first five finals appearances, we have seen James have dominant performances in championship runs (2012 and 2013), we have seen teams exploit James’ passivity (2007, 2011) and we have seen James play reasonably well in defeat but yet not assert himself as the best player on the court (2014).
Whatever happens in the 2015 Finals will be one more chapter in that ongoing saga. It may not even be the final chapter and it will not necessarily be the defining chapter.
However, I disagree with the notion that LeBron James is playing with “house money” just because his team has suffered injuries. He has some talented teammates and any team that is good enough to make it to the Finals should not just be happy to be there. James is the best player on the court and he has the ability to elevate his team so that each game is at least competitive.
If the Cavaliers win and James plays well, clearly this adds to James’ already impressive legacy. If the Cavaliers lose and James plays well, this does not hurt James’ legacy but it also does not necessarily move him up in the rankings, either.
The only way that this series should hurt James’ legacy is if he plays poorly and/or without requisite effort.
astro
Guest
I understand you're point, but I'm not comparing Magic to Lebron. Just making the point that Magic and the other greats, never lead such an average team to a championship (which, again, I don't think Lebron will). In terms of ranking, beyond Jordan and Russell as 1 and 2, I don't see the point in trying rank guys beyond that. There's a bunch who are brilliant. Of course, we all have our personal rankings (Kareem is 3 for me!), but there are so many variables, it impossible to do. As for your point about who Lebron faces, we don't know which of the current players will end up being HOFers. Maybe Steph Curry will be an all-time great? Certainly Duncan will be and Lebron has a victory over him. Durant and Westbrook, likely will be, and again Lebron has beaten them in the Finals. And Lebron isn't finished yet!
David Friedman
Expert
Joe: Winning a title in Cleveland would be huge for the city and have tremendous symbolic value. However, the Fumble, the Drive and other Cleveland sports debacles are not relevant when comparing LeBron to Russell, Jordan and the other greatest basketball players of all time.
David Friedman
Expert
Astro: Magic played with more HoFers than LeBron but he also faced teams with more HoFers. Would a win against this year's Warriors mean more than beating Boston in Boston in game seven in 1985? I am not sure how to make such comparisons. I agree that if the Cavaliers win then this adds to LeBron James' legacy but his legacy must be considered in context with the players with whom he is being compared. If the Cavaliers win this series then LeBron would be 3-3 in the Finals. Magic went 5-4 while facing Bird, Doc, Isiah and MJ. I would still take Magic's Finals resume over LeBron's at that point. Regarding the caliber of LeBron's current teammates, it is true that several of them came from bad teams but that does not mean that those players lack talent. J.R. Smith has won the Sixth Man of the Year award. Shumpert has battled injuries in the past but is known as a very good defensive player. Mozgov is a skilled big man who perhaps was not used properly before. Tristan Thompson is a relenteless rebounder. Dellavedova is a tenacious defender. None of these players are stars but they are all good NBA players who are capable of filling the roles that they have been assigned. The Cavs have lost offensive firepower due to injury (Irving, Love) and they obviously have lost depth (their rotation has been shortened) but they have gained some defense and tenacity.
joe
Guest
The historical relevance of Lebron going home & winning in his first season returned when his team was a big underdog would far surpass the Miami titles. Just to win a title in Cleveland,for ANY team would mean a lot. They've been snakebit a few times the past 30 years with the Earnest Byner fumble,the drive from Elway,the Jordan shot at buzzer,the Indians losing both World Series appeances in the 90's.And the Browns leaving in mid 90's hurt & they have basically stunk in the whole 15 yrs since they returned,there's no real optimism with that incompetent organization. But to win an NBA championship,especially with a team being led by the kid from that region,that would really be something for the city.
astro
Guest
Hi David...As you know from my previous comments on a recent article of yours, I disagree to some extent. While I agree that NBA finals and rings are not the only measure of greatness and that a finals record alone, doesn't mean much, I disagree that Lebron winning this year, against this Warriors team, wouldn't count for anything more than 'another title'. No one with half a brain is saying 'If the Cavaliers beat the Warriors, that will automatically make James the greatest player of all-time'...but if Lebron keeps posting these numbers and drags what is a mediocre team, past one of the best regular season teams in NBA history in the Warriors, then that will mean a lot. For the record, I still think the Warriors will win, but if Lebron can do this, it would be something very special. While I definitely wouldn't make him the greatest ever, it would make his legacy stand out. No top ten player would have won a championship with a roster as average as this Cavs team. Lebron isn't playing with Pippen and Rodman, Worthy and Kareem, McHale and Parish, Cousy or Havlicek, Shaq, etc...He's playing with 2 guys who came from the second worst team in the league, a bench player from the Nuggets, an undrafted guard who averages 4.7ppgs for his career and a third year big man who came off the bench for most of this year. And a first year coach. And, he's playing against a fully healthy Warriors team which was one of only ten teams in history to win 67 games, boasts the league MVP, an All-NBA guard and two guys who are All-NBA defense. Surely, if Lebron and the Cavs win, it will mean more than his other 2 titles in terms of legacy?
astro
Guest
Chris Kettlewell
Roar Guru
I've seen lots of people write-off Cleveland in this series, yet on Golden State's home court they've required OT to win game 1 and then lost game 2, also in OT. And now we head back to Cleveland. Meaning that GS have to play better in Cleveland than they have so far in Oakland. Of course, it's possible LeBron could just drop off a cliff at some point. Playing the sorts of minutes he's having to play at the moment could result in him just getting more fatigued and as a result, less effective, as the series goes on. He played 50 minutes in game 2. The next most for the Cav's was Dellavadova with 42 minutes and nobody else was more than 40. To an extent he's carried this team way beyond where they should go based on the overall quality of the team, and that is what defines a great player.
Chris Kettlewell
Roar Guru
If you can analyse the game and see a way in which they affected the outcome in Cleveland's favour then you could make that call, but I'd have to go with David on this one.
joe
Guest
Anyway the refereeing angle is just something I've always kept an eye on because they impact a game as much as the players do. But its nothing to do with the original topic of your article,which I agree with you on.Win or lose,in this situation Lebron's legacy will have to be instantly diagnosed by the media which is ridiculous. Lebron has another 3 to 4 years of peak performance.The Cavs could lose this Finals & go on to win 3 straight titles in next 3 years for all we know. Wait until his career is over & then start to figure out where he stands in NBA history.Its so stupid when you see these idiots making lists with guys who's careers aren't even finished yet,not even close to finishing in Lebron's case. The funny part is the Warriors could win this series but Lebron will end up averaging close to a triple double & should still win Finals MVP regardless
joe
Guest
So far road teams in these NBA playoffs have won 11 games in a row when Scott Foster is refereeing the game.You can read into that however you want but thats a major storyline in my eyes. And some of those road teams were significant underdogs.Maybe its sheer coincidence,maybe not? All I know is Scott Foster has a shady past (good friends with Tim Donaghy) & the proof is in the pudding,the road underdog won again last night with Foster's crew calling the shots. And im fairly certain Joey Crawford will be front & center tomorrow night for Game 3,& if not then absolutely he will be there for Game 4 on Thursday.
David Friedman
Expert
Joe: Cleveland indeed won game two but it hardly was the product of "extra calls." If anything, many of the late calls went against LeBron: Iguodala hacked him multiple times and Green twice pulled his arm down during jump balls. Van Gundy said something to the effect that he has never seen a star player get less of a benefit of the doubt on calls than LeBron James. I don't know if that is true or how to prove it but there is not much evidence supporting your specific prediction that the NBA and/or the officials would make sure that Cleveland wins game two. If that outcome were so vitally important to the NBA that it would cheat to achieve it (which is in essence what you are asserting) than why would the officials let Cleveland's late lead in regulation completely disappear? Did that not risk the complete collapse of the alleged conspiracy? All the officials had to do was call one or two pretty obvious calls in Cleveland's favor and we would be none the wiser.
David Friedman
Expert
Pete: A few years ago, this is what Jerry West (who knows something about Laker greatness as both a player and an executive) told Dan Patrick: "Kobe Bryant is the greatest Laker to ever play. Period. I love Magic Johnson and his contribution, but Magic Johnson had a lot more help, to be honest with you. He played, sometimes, with five All-Stars. Kobe Bryant is just a different talent. He will go down as one of the two or three greatest players of all time, I think. His ability to do things that other people can't do, his ability to win games late, his defensive ability. He has an all-around game. When you look at him, you don't see what's inside. And I think that's what really sets the great ones apart."
pete bloor
Guest
But if he speaks at a normal volume we might figure out he's an escapee from the asylum. It's worked for Smith and bayless. I mean Kobe at 2 I'd have Kobe at 3 or 4 for all time Lakers
joe
Guest
Things don't look good for Cleveland with the multiple injuries,but the NBA has put Scott Foster on tonights game 2. The road teams when Scott Foster is officiating have had a lot of success this postseason. And you can be almost certain that Joey Crawford will be doing game 3 in Cleveland. Having those 2 officiate in back to back games will definitely help Lebron & the Cavs,they'll get a few extra calls go their way. Not sure if will be enough for them to actually win the series but if the NBA has its way they'll do all they can to get it to 6 games.
joe
Guest
LOL,love the Bill comment you made Ryan.When I saw he had Bill at #6 I thought it was Bill Cartwright
Ronan O'Connell
Expert
I was a big fan of Laimbeer, but at #6 all time?!
William Dalton Davis
Roar Rookie
I have Kwame Brown...
bangs
Guest
Sure let's all act like 2-4 or 2/6 in the finals doesn't affect his ranking in the all time list. /smh
Internal Fixation
Guest
Great pick. Personally I had a three way tie between Bryant Reeves and Adam Morrison
joe
Guest
I have Keith Van Horn at #15