Hird and Bombers must annul their unholy union

Hird as a player was great to watch as a coach he is not so great just want to ask a few questions why were these players getting injected away from the club it self if they had nothing to hide and why did Jobe Watson sit down on the couch with Healy Carey and Sheehan admit to taking the ban substance Tb4 you can go back and watch this interview that states what he admitted to they should of got rid of the problem straight away not send him on a twelve month holiday with a Million dollars spending money he should of stayed and coped the flack the players had to indure while he is living the high life over seas it's funny how the afl tipped the club of that asada was coming to investigate the club then everything disappeared no trace of paper work nothing all put through a shredder no evidence to find,these players should of taken the penalty then they would of had this over and done with and back playing football now wada have stepped in its starts all over again they will not stop digging until someone is accountable for this mess that starts with Hird and his last coaching staff that are no longer there wada will issue writs against this mob they won't so no they not attend don't think they have a choice dank will never be able to work with any sporting teams world wide Hird will be sacked as he is responsible for these players health and duty of care they got Marion jones and Armstrong with out testing positive as well jones got 2yrs for troubles and I can garantee Hird will cop his share of his envovelment in this mess he has the club in Essendon will never recover until he has gone and a broom is used to sweep out the rest of the staff envolved in the mess he has bought into the once mighty club it was time will tell I have friends who go for the bombers they are disgusted how this club can stand by and watch there club being drag down into the gutter as they say until Hird is gone they will not attend a game while he is there they said Harvey would be a better coach then Hird I seem to agree with them he was shafted at the dockers who the got Lyons then tell Harvey he wasn't wanted no more less than five hours after a team breakfast he still was coach then until a few hours later he was gone Lyons walked into a ready made team coach by Harvey so get Harvey he is a great coach from a freo supporter

EFC are going nowhere while Hird and those involved the drug saga are still there. Outside their own fans the club has no respect and they are simply not going anywhere on the field and the WADA matter is still pending. If EFC had done a full cleanout 2 years ago they would be in a much better position now. If I was a fan I would be asking for a clean out and to start again. When I see Essendon and Hird I just think drugs. Everything that happens is always framed by the drug saga - EFC cannot move on until they remove themselves from that. I don't hate the club but I certainly have no respect for it anymore. Sad for the true fans but they are partyl to blame for supporting those at the club that allowed this to happen.

Conchie, there is no "circular argument." There is one clear fact- had Hird not resorted to a disastrous injection programme, ASADA would never have come near them. That is why ASADA haven't come near Hawthorn or any of the other clubs that believed in winning a flag on merit. Oh yeah and what will you say if the WADA appeal finds the players guilty?

I am not going to expand my opinion on this any more, i think it all becomes a bit of a circular argument, but your last post is fair enough and i do realise i get somewhat worked up.

We're not ever going to find out if Hird can coach. You can't really judge him through the ASADA/WADA period, and he's probably not going to survive to a period where he has clear air and coaches in his own right. Unfortunate situation but James is the author of his own demise - he took too many risks and was very naive. When Dank came knocking there are several very simple precautionary measures that could have been followed to establish independence and proper oversight, and proper record keeping. Better planning and some real basic measures would have prevented this whole fiasco from unfolding - instead Essendon employed as a major check the totally useless measure of getting its players to sign bits of paper, players who have no medical training and who haven't the faintest idea of what they are signing (and who did not receive any independent medical advice). I reckon we (the footy public) would have respected Hird just came out and admitted that he got sucked in and he showed very poor judgment. It's not the crime of the century to push the envelope like Hird did I suppose (pending the health outcomes of that squad of players in the future of course) but when it all blew up on him he should have just put his hand up and taken the hit. James has been as poorly advised by his lawyers as he was by Dank.

You are the one who said the tribunal cleared the players so a legal definition of "cleared" is very relevant. Unless I guess it doesn't fit with what you want to believe. I am wondering if the media that you quoted as stating the players were found "not guilty" is the same media that you referred to as: " have been nothing shy of a lynch mob and have built the publics bloodlust up and at every turn have controlled pubic opinion. " - except I guess when they say something that fits in with what you want to believe. For the record my legal sources (and I have a few) say that "not guilty' is not the correct terminology to describe the tribunals finding. Probably the closest term to describe the verdict result is "not proven" . The one strength in your argument is the paperwork presented by ASADA as evidence of the 2nd shipment. While "laughed out of court" might be embellishing the tribunals findings a bit, I agree that they were not impressed with this piece of evidence. But your constant references to the possible employment opportunities offered to Charter as a incentive to testify is really twisting its significance. Firstly, it is not uncommon for important witnesses in a trial to be offered inducements to testify if they are showing reluctance - for whatever reason - to do so. That doesn't mean that whoever is offering the inducements wants them to lie - but it obviously does mean that the party - in this case ASADA - believe what they do have to say will help their side of the case. And - as I pointed out in a earlier comment - Charter (and the other key witnesses) were always at liberty to testify to try to help clear the players. If they had nothing to hide then I struggle to understand why they didn't do that because as well as helping the players they would have also helped saved their own reputations. I have tried to think of some logical reasons why they have chosen to remain silent but haven't thought of any yet. But it appears in your mind silence means innocence. I am not sure about that - but I would have do agree that by staying silent it makes it a lot harder to find them guilty of anything. I still don't know whether or not the players were given anything illegal. But the point here is that the findings made it very clear that neither do the players. And that is why the tribunals findings did not provide either a definitive or satisfactory conclusion to this saga that you would like to believe it did.

Until Hird goes EFC are going nowhere. Anyone who could not see that even 12 months ago is smoking the big ones

Phantom shipments offered up as evidence by ASADA, job offers by ASADA to witnesses. You really must have some unresolved issues, the ABC, Herald Sun, skynews, SBS etc to name a few orgs all state they are not guilty. Just you it appears that believes cleared means guilty, your only comment revolves around some banal technicality around the word cleared, dealing with the phantom shipment of TB4 and job offers to witnesses would mean looking outside your very narrow view. Do you even begin to understand the burden of proof and how far away ASADA were, free from doubt does not cut it, suspicions do not cut it, with your views the gallows and electric chair would be working overtime. LOL at you

Cochie here is the legal definition of "Cleared" Free from doubt, burden, or obstacle; without limitation; plain or unencumbered. So you really believe the tribunal's finding was "free from doubt"? I would suggest to you that the only way the verdict could have been "free from doubt" is if the EFC/players could have produced the records that showed exactly what the players took. It would even have helped if the key witnesses had turned up and testified in favour of the players. (Since Charter didn't accept the job offer from ASADA he was still free to show up and tell the truth about what he believed happened) And if the consent forms had contained the appropriate level of detail then we could at least be assured that the intention was to administer only legal substances. But none of those things happened Conchie and therefore any objective assessment of the verdict is not "free from doubt"

Cleared, they were cleared, which means they have been found not guilty. Not only that, but ASADA presented a phantom shipment which was laughed out of court " The tribunal, which this week cleared 34 current and former Essendon players of doping allegations, expressed “grave doubts” about the authenticity of documents relied on by ASADA to show a second batch of peptides containing the banned substance Thymosin Beta 4 was shipped to the Melbourne pharmacist at the centre of the doping scandal. And of course it would be remiss to forget that ASADA investigators offered potential employmnet to Charters in return for favourable testimony. Many people have been led around by the nose and many people have played this depending on who they barrack for. It is not a narrow view, it is a view that treats people as innocent untill such time as they aren't.

"34 blokes guilty of nothing as it stands, in fact cleared by a independant tribunual" They weren't "cleared" Conchie. The tribunal was not "comfortably satisfied" but they expressed frustration at the refusal of key witnesses to testify (which they stated made their job more difficult) and were also extremely critical of the deplorable record keeping at the EFC. The also said the consent form signed by the players was "fatally flawed" lacking the necessary details that ensured the players could not know what they had agreed to be injected with. In your narrow view of the world you want to ignore all of that, which is of course your choice. But don't get angry because just about everyone else has looked at the judgement holistically and not just the parts that you like.

Well no, the media are just part of it, 34 blokes guilty of nothing as it stands, in fact cleared by a independant tribunual have been knocked from ato post by a low conniving pot shotting media. Hird has received the same. The media have been nothing shy of a lynch mob and have built the publics bloodlust up and at every turn have controlled pubic opinion.

Conchie - So this is all the medias fault. Nothing to do with what actually happened at the EFC?

3 years of constant innuendo and speculation have taken it's toll, the media vultures should be very proud of themselves. Nothing better than gossip columnists.

Anthony, I only hope that after WADA hands the players 2 years and Hird is finally sacked people like yourself who've defended Hird throughout the saga will finally come to their senses and realize their stubborn refusal to demand his resignation have effectively set the club's recovery process back an extra couple of years. When the you-know-what hits the fan and you are frantically looking for someone to point the finger at just remember it was supporters like you who refused to allow the healing process to begin by insisting Hird be cut loose. Its obvious the club cannot move forward until Hird and everyone who was there in 2012 is removed, but supporters like yourself refuse to see it because you are still blinded by the fanciful notion that Golden Boy will lead his team to the promised land and the past will all be forgotten. Nevermind that the team is ordinary and was never a premiership threat in the first place or that Hird is a woefully average coach, it seems many Essendon supporters have fallen so deeply into the habit of denying reality that the facts no longer matter to them. The funny part is supporters of every other club are overjoyed to see Hird continue as coach knowing Essendon will remain a fractured, ineptly coached club so long as he is there. You're actually doing your opponents a massive favor by defending him against all the evidence.

I did my research Conchie. Did you see them play Saturday and the previous week and most of the year?

Yeah - Given the faith based nature of Hirds devotees it seems to mean like them calling for stats is akin to a creationist asking to keep the discussion science based.

Spot on with everything you've said GoGWS. I think the Board and Paul Littl in particular, have to accept a big share of the blame for the players' predicament too and the failure to accept responsibility, which would enable the players to put this behind them. Ideal scenario if they had their time again: (1) the club and Hird shouldn't have contested the initial court hearing into the rights of ASADA and the AFL to cooperate, which just prolonged the subsequent stages; (2) the club should have advised the players to accept a discounted penalty offer, so that the club and players could put this saga behind them and everyone could move on. Some stench will remain over the club and Hird for at least a decade regardless, but the players remain relatively blameless in the eyes of the public (despite unethically agreeing to inject performance enhancing drugs, in the belief they weren't illegal). If the players had accepted a discounted penalty, most people would have deemed the club, Dank, Robinson and Hird as the culprits, not the players, and would have felt a degree of sympathy for the players. But this prolonged process with WADA is partly of their own decision-making. The players should have made this decision (to accept a discounted penalty) by themselves, but the club should not have sold them down the river ... the club should have made it easier on the players (who have conflicted loyalties between serving the club and themselves) by encouraging them to take this path also. If they had of, by now it would all be behind them! The club has let them down - again.

We know that Conchie would prefer it if only the pro-Hird camp ever commented on the EFC. That's how it is for people who don't like free speech or balanced debates.

I don't know where you get Hird being intelligent from. He was an exceptionally gifted player but a poor captain and says the dumbest things on regular occasions. He obviously thinks he is smart which comes from living in a bubble of worshippers (Essendon fans). But he really should be charged under duty of care regulations, and the Essendon club is a shambolic, sleazy low end outfit comparable with their Cronulla NRL mates in Sydney.