Promotion and relegation in Australian football

I think Australian football needs to put a concept of promotion and relegation within the next 20 years IMO. along with NPL

A2 needs to start next TV Deal along with 2 new HAL teams. It needs to be truly national of up to 16-18 clubs incorporating not just capital cities but also regions like Gold Coast, North Queensland, South West Sydney, Dandenongs. Geelong, Sunshine Coast. etc. It can contain existing NPL state clubs. It needs to be above the NPL State structure and run at the same time as the A League. It can still be semi-pro as long as the FFA puts up the travel costs and is smart with the scheduling. Ideally future expansion clubs will come from this second tier. There will not be pro/rel until the current licenses expire in around 2033. In the meantime a viable national second tier needs to be built.

Why not! At least there'd be more distractions from our bloody cricket team. So, can I rely on your support at the next FFA election?

Yep. If it's good enough for the goose as they say. It would be about access to an acceptable stadium that the a-league fixtures would be held at - just like it is for the HAL clubs now.

Yep, definitely not suggesting anything like that right away. Couple of things Really, the EPL, La Liga etc have some of these things. It's just that the relegation does happen every year, because the teams coming up fit the bill. But there have been cases where they haven't - in England, with stadia (a couple of teams have been forced to ground share at different times, Fulham and Wimbledon from memory), in Spain with finances - have a look at Eibar last season and now this one as well, when they were relegated, but held their place because of irregularities with the team who otherwise would have been promoted. In Argentina they relegate teams based on the last three years. Throughout Europe they have playoffs. Lots of options. Not for now.

We don't need to follow league structures in countries with different economies and geographies from our own. What would work here is two guest teams to increase the league each year- the FFA cup has shown that with some financial support that would work. A year with Darwin- who cares if they come bottom and great if they made 10th out of 12. South Melbourne despite its ethnicity would not harm the game for a year in the A league, and a second Adelaide team for a year, North Queensland GC and Auckland etc. All this would need to be fixed with the current franchises but I doubt in the major cities it will affect current gates so no problem.

Yep i understand that and it is a good idea. However i still believe it is too soon to have something like that in place. One thing i have realised in football is that on any given day, any team can win. It is too early to risk losing one of the currently established A-League teams.

Though it be irrelevant, the prospect of an A-League consortium having ownership of stadia could be a reality in the future with the Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks of the NRL and the FFA in talks of a possible 3rd Sydney A-League team based out of Remondis Stadium, currently the only stadium in Australia owned by a top level sports entity.

If this was to happen, they should ditch the grand final. The winner should be the best team over the home and away rounds, not decided in an end of season tv revenue raiser.

To me the best way is to have it as a locked top tier for the moment. Grow the AL until it can be split into a division 1 and 2 (even some larger NPL teams can fill in AL Div 2). Then, once that is stable then look at integrating NPL with AL.

I understand that there are many variations on the same theme, but what cm was suggesting was that it need not be an automatic thing every season - there could be seasons where there is no P&R - there could be seasons where the opportunity for P&R presents itself. The key is that it need not be automatic, that it can be at the discretion of the FFA, decided upon on the basis of a variety of criteria. You don't want it to be automatic because you don't want the likes of SFC, the Roar and Glory disappearing in consecutive seasons, to be replaced by the likes of the Cooma Tigers, Sorrento SC and Albion Rovers.

While I yearn for promotion/relegation, I do like your other idea of no finals!

There are similar systems like this. The Belgian league promotes a relegation play-off between the last two teams in the league. The loser of that league is automatically relegated, the winner goes into another play off with the teams that come 2nd -> 4th in the 2nd division. Winner of that plays in the top league. There are plenty of variations, there is no set way to pro/rel teams. We need to find what works best for us.

I'm with you. The first step has to be a successful 2nd tier competition - if that works then the question of p/r opens up. I could see an ACL-like competition of the best 16 NPL clubs playing off towards a grand final in 4 groups of 4.

..& the distance from St. Petersburg to Vladivostok is... the Russian Div.2.

Don't think there are enough teams in HAL to justify promotion/relegation. Expansion to at least 16 and then there may be a chance, although it really is a chicken egg scenario as people aren't used to the practice and therefore less likely to follow a demoted team, but to get people to get used to the practice, you have to get them behind a demoted team.

I think cm is on to something here. Soccer fans familiar with the European leagues are used to the idea that you have two or three promoted/relegated at the end of every season - but there is no law which says it has to work that way, and in this very article, where the author talks of using the NPL finals as part of an annual promotion/relegation system, it's almost impossible to conceive of such a system working. Why? Because a strict applied system where one team must be relegated and one team promoted, means it's possible that a Perth, Adelaide or Brisbane team gets replaced by some mickey mouse club from Melbourne or Sydney. Have that happen two or three years running, and you end up with a mickey mouse comp. CM's idea is far more feasible, that you have a system that allows for the possibility of promotion/relegation without it applying on a strict basis every season (other criteria would need to apply), so that you don't end up with a situation where SFC or the Roar is replaced by the Cooma Tigers or Sorrento - which clearly, just can't work. On the other hand, if you have the Mariners on the verge of falling over, the FFA signals that its P&R system comes into effect this very season - if a club emerges which not only wins the NPL finals, but meets all other relevant criteria - and the Mariners either go back to the NNSW league, or they fold.

I would say that South Melbourne would be in a far better place financially than CCM or the Jets with more scope for growth too. Still, pro/rel is a pipe dream, at least in the next 20 years as per the WOFP. Moot argument really.

"and almost no NPL clubs would have a HAL appropriate stadium" That makes no sense. Remind me again which A-League franchise actually owns a stadium?

Are you moving the NPL season into the summer as well?