The AFL should plan for a second division

The idea would make the comp fairer but the AFL would not accept it. The reason the popular sides in EPL & Europeans stay out of relegation is a result of no Salary Cap and it would obviously be stupid to introduce a cap into those leagues , so you would need to sell the idea that gate receipt teams like Collingwood maybe relegated............... and you know the answer would be a resonant no! An interesting fact is that currently the AFL is the 4th most attended league in the world and relegation of big supporter teams would be a backwards step, this is what you'd call "if it broke don't fix it" if the crowd comes in it's not gonna change. You could possibly play with the idea of a "champions" play off between the premiers of each state league as you say with a container jam packed with currency and enough charisma and influence to coerce each of those leagues to participate but who is this person? Certainly it would be extremely rare that such a person exists.

The writer and some posters have very little idea of how broadcast rights work and what pushes up the price. Currently the AFL has the 4th best average crowd attendance in the world. Yes that is in international sport. Behind the NFL, NBA and one of the German soccer leagues. Even EPL can't match it. As soon as you try to introduce 2 divisions broadcasters would reduce the value of the game, because crowds and viewers would reduce significantly. Currently fans watch many games per week to keep in touch with future opponents as well as their own club's game. The second division would not attract the first division viewers. The top clubs' fans would have no interest. Similarly with crowd attendance - the crowds are propped up by the dominant clubs, leave the lesser clubs to themselves and they will attract fewer crowds. Broadcast rights and promotion by them go a long way in keeping our game the most popular sport. But it is based on a one league competition, week by week season. Two divisions will never work in Australia. There is no critical mass in sponsorship, population, nor overall will by fans.

Carlton and Essendon have pretty grim futures.Would a afl be happy for them to be permanent fixtures at the bottom of division 2?

There are a myriad of reasons this couldn't work for AFL but the primary one is the population size/size of the fan base. If AFL was as popular in NSW and QLD as it is everywhere else there'd maybe be a small argument for two divisions, maybe... P.S You realise they did run a "Champions of Australia" quite recently with the Foxtel Cup? (it was a fizzer but i enjoyed the concept, cos I'm a tragic)

That sums it up nicely Kaks. Drawing comparisons with the European Football system is futile. This debate, if it ever really was one, is over.

That's what I thought I said? It's not only AFL though as sports like Rugby or Cricket find it very difficult to get the 2nd and 3rd tier teams competitive in their World Cups which hinders the growth of those sports. In Soccer an amateur team can be competitive in a 'one off'' game but the cream always rises to the top in a league/tournament.

Hi Cm Yep, agreed. However, all the clubs you mention combined don't have the same value as Man U. Just a thought.

Or put another, in certain other spots, an amateur team can actually be competitive against a top division team - something which cannot happen in Australian Football.

Let's be honest, $110 million sounds like petty cash when you're banking $2.5 billion in TV rights (which will end up being a third of what the AFL and clubs will earn in total revenue during those six years). In fact, one could argue that the Suns and Giants have already made that back via the extra game sold, therefore, there is zero risk going forward.

You can believe all you like spruce but as kaks said it would not happen . The following sides from the lower leagues have played in the EPL Championship: Ipswich, Hull, MK Dons (well, kinda), Boro, Charlton, Birmingham, Sheffield W, Wolves, Forest, QPR, Cardiff, Leeds, Derby, Blackburn, Reading, Burnley, Fulham, Bolton League 1: Coventry, Barnsley, Sheffield Utd, Swindon, Oldham, Wigan, Blackpool, Bradford. League 2: Portsmouth (Apologies if I've missed any). Of those, Ipswich, both Sheffield clubs, Blackburn, Burnley, Portsmouth, Wolves, Leeds, Derby and Forest have all won the top division in their history (only Blackburn as the Premier League). There are other clubs that have won the top first division that haven't been part of the EPL (operating since 1992) that currently play in the lower leagues. Point being, nobody is immune. It would tear apart the fabric of the whole thing. Oh. Except for Arsenal. Brown paper bags have been known to keep them in the top flight of course. ;) But other than that.... no way. Of course, the clubs you mention are unlikely to be relegated until they hit financial strife anyway, in which case it would be a moot point.

The cost of supporting the expansion sides is about $110m as reported in the media recently. They are very expensive outposts which is why the AFL have ruled out any further expansion for the time being. The AFL have deep pockets but if the cost rises to $200, 300 or $500m in the next decade without any growth in TV ratings then the AFL may question whether it's worth having 4 clubs in NSW/QLD. That money could be going to established clubs in the AFL heartland.

Australian sports are as fair weather as they come, which is a primary reason why promotion/relegation would never work in this country.

TV companies can cry all they want about losing dollars, but they signed up to the broadcast deal knowing full well that promotion and relegation is a factor, although unlikely for the big teams. The reason why the TV companies argued for Rangers to remain was because the club was being forced to start from the bottom and work its way up again as Rangers, as we knew it, went into administration and a new entity was created which took on the image rights of Rangers FC. It wasnt a relegation on merit but because of financial/business reasons and the TV companies - as well as some Scottish football execs - were arguing to keep the new Rangers in the SPL as Scottish football was/is in major financial trouble. The Old Firm was their only draw card. If a team like United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or - to a lesser extent - City were to be relegated for footballing reasons, there would be no weight at all for the TV companies to try and stop them from getting relegated as it makes the whole competition void. Saying "[insert team name] cant be relegated for financial reasons, but the rest of you can" would never work. It would go to the courts and be overruled. I understand your point in that TV companies would try to do whatever they could to keep those big clubs from being relegated, and that you are only speculating, but a team would never have their relegation overruled based on a TV deal

It would have to be promoted right Xavier and be given the same amount of exposure but if people will watch Brisbane vs Gold Coast they will watch anything the AFL put to them.

No question it would cause a huge uproar by all other football fans. But the dollars they bring in, I believe, would still trump any bad publicity. TV would absolutely make an attempt to stop that. They may not succeed, but they absolutely will try. There is precedent with the Rangers where TV really put the wood on the SPL. TV has a LOT more money invested in the EPL. They wouldn't just back away. They all but own the competition now. TV would let two Manchester derbies, plus two Man U/Liverpool games disappear without a fight. From 2016 onwards, each premier league match is worth $20 million each. Clearly some are worth more than others, so we would say that the value of these 4 games alone would total over $100 million. Those 4 games alone are the equivalent of half an NRL season (under their new deal). They are one of the biggest sporting brands in the world, and a brand that is exploited by all and sundry who pay for it. TV may not win the battle, but they wouldn't let Man U go down without an almighty fight. To be honest, I'd almost see them stay in the top flight but just having to start the season on -10. All speculative of course, and I concede long off topic! :p

I've been saying two divisions for years, it would ,could and will work, bring in another WA or SA team plus TAS, ten teams each,all play each other twice, both divisions have final five systems. BINGO, draw problems are solved,the best performed teams make the playoffs fair and square, then also some supporters of Melbourne,StKilda and WB may get to taste premiership success. It would also create room for further expansion in the right areas at the right time in the future to 24 clubs.

Two divisions of 10 teams may work in theory, though the AFL now has 2,500,000,000 reasons to not break with years of tradition. Who'd want to watch (scratch that, who would want to broadcast) the two bottom Division 2 teams anyway? However, I think there would be merit in harmonising the state leagues into some sort of national competition at year's end, instead of a Foxtel Cup played throughout the year in very random, barely attended venues.

I’ve had similar thoughts as well. AFL is a very forgiving sport when it comes to scoring so the best teams always win which rules out 2nd or 3rd tier teams from ever being able to compete. With 18 teams, the bottom clubs are off the pace and get smashed regularly as well so that would be a good solution.

I would also argue that we have an attitude towards second divisions in Australia that they aren't really the same quality. As a fan of the North Sydney Bears, people love to tell me that they don't exist anymore. When I say they still play in the NSW Cup and are the feeder team for Souths, they roll their eyes as if to say "that doesn't count..." I can't imagine the FTA networks would want to broadcast a second division and I find it hard to believe that anyone but the die-hards would bother going to second division matches where the same rivalries don't exist. When your mates are all standing around the water cooler at work bantering about their AFL teams, its a bit hard to try and interject with the performance of your second division team.

The only reason Pr/Rel works in soccer competitions is because the clubs are privately owned entities. The AFL clubs are little more than AFL owned franchises with a membership based voting system tacked onto the side. The AFL clubs receive money from AFL house and are heavily subsidized. EPL clubs are funded by their owners.