Socceroos name squad for Jordan World Cup qualifier

James Meredith is an interesting inclusion. I am also not entirely sure if Brattan has the match fitness required for being anything other than a squaddie.

If Richard Porta is an elephant then it must indeed be a rather large room; practically the Tardis.

Punter- Thanks for the reply and like you I am a great believer in people having opinions, however that should never stifle good debate which is the purpose of sites like this.I did not say you had commented on where total football started but it is a very popular misconception that exists in our game created by journalists too lazy to look into the history of tactical football and that does get up my nose a bit for in our time Russian and Hungarian teams were showing the football world that the Anglified 1-2-3-5 formation was totally out of date with what students of human movement and work place measurement had been working on all during and before World War 11,1939-1945. When that fact is accepted as gospel it is then quite easy to follow the growth and spread of tactical football up until today never mind the years 1969 to 1978, 9 years when Dutch teams did well in both EC and WC's Cheers, your mate jb .

(Can't reply to your other comment for some reason) I agree we seem to pretty alligned in our thinking. Hopefully with a bit more time and money we'll see the A-League continue to grow into something more than just a development league. I think our football culture is changing, and ultimately we're on the right path, if at times the travelling feels a little slow. Cheers for a good discussion JB, I'm sure the Joeys at the World Cup next month will provide a lot more food for thought.

JB, I would never classify it as a argument, just differing of opinions. Your knowledge on football on this forum is 2nd to none, however, this does not mean I cannot disagree with you I never stated total football was started by English coaches in Holland, it was Hungary in the 50s (see my post again), however, I do acknowledge with your greater knowledge, Austria. As for Slater, I only brought up Barcelona, was because Slater won a premiership with Blackburn, I highlighted the premiership winners in the top 5 leagues last year. I stand by it that today, Slater would not be in a premiership winning squad in any of the top 5 European leagues, hence the difference today to those in previous years.

Juan dos. Thanks for thethoughtful comments on this matter and as they cover such a diverse area of our game I will attempt debate across each paragraph to see if we have common ground. Your first appears to discuss statistical analysis of a game into shots,fouls, offside etc which I agree wholeheartedly with your comment ,it is a "cop out " by poorly informed people into what they are seeing in front of them.Like you I like to assess games by what players are providing to the overall effort of the team under the directions of the tactical system invoked by the coach.You do touch on a difficult task comparing the first HAL matches with todays offerings after all I am being asked to compare Dwight York with Berisha,get my point.?. A difficult task over 11 years of history. You then accuse me of dismissing the idea of AP picking overseas players in favour of HAL players.I never said that though I don't hide from the fact that I would love to see AP "forced" to pick a home-grown team ,not through legislation , but simply because he,AP,had players of that quality playing in the local comp.You go on to tell us clubs are "now" starting up systems to educate young players and my retort to that is simply .why so long,? after all 11 years is more than half of a normal football playing career so have we just condemened a generation of potential into the scrap heap because of laxity in our system? You then go onto broach a subject close to my heart,the education and achievemnts of our "lower" national teams,I can only say I have noted some slight improvement over the last year or so but then must ask you compared with the achievemnts in this area just a few short years ago,when we had teams reaching the last 8 or 16 of world class tournaments have we in fact gone backwards inorder to be seen to again go forward. A good question? Your last para. is again close to my heart. I am a great believer in the games long history and adamantly push the idea that we should learn from mistakes made in the past.We live in a country with a plentiful supply of strong vibrant youth and the recent past has shown we do have players who have gone on to play at the highest levels of countries of their choice.My problem is that it appears they still have to go to these places to have their "game' brought up to the required level and it is in that area I feel we need to concentrate efforts to correct that state of affairs. so that the HAL can be seen to be producing players good enough for AP's squads and as time is passing this does not appear to be the case. I will leave you by thanking you again for such a lucid comment and I hope my effort will clarify my thoughts to you for I suspect we are not so far apart in our thinking. Cheers jb

Interesting football in Australia is seen as feminine to play professionally but the supporters are unruly and violent, very conveneient ? .. (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/western-sydney-wanderers/western-sydney-wanderers-and-nsw-police-working-through-red-and-black-bloc-restrictions-20150924-gjufbj.html) ...

Bondy, the reporting you have quoted is absolute drivel. A League clubs could have signed Drogba or Pirlo for "significantly less" than SFC paid for ADP? I suppose $1m less for Drogba and $0.5m less for Pirlo is significant from one point of view. Thing is, A League clubs would have had to better the MLS payments to entice those players to Oz. How much extra in travel costs (back to the old country and return for the whole family, la la, la!), relocation costs, and the extra premium associated with our remote location? I doubt we could have got either of these dudes for less than $5m each, possibly $6m. All in all, rather a poorly thought out article.

Going from pre season to playing a world cup qualifier is a stretch for even the top tier of players.

JB, of all the sports I follow, football is the least stat based. So much of the analysis of the game relies upon inspection of movement, passing, style, tactics, individual skill, and even though stats like possession and shots on goal are highlighted at halftime, they're numbers are normally self evident when watching the actual match. I bring this up because I think attempting to measure the role the A-League is playing by boiling it down to an arbitrary statistic that 4 current HAL players are in the NT squad is simplifying the situation. Is the A-League of a better standard than when it began? Try watching the first ever HAL game and then last seasons Grand Final and see if there's qualitative difference in the on pitch performance. I see people continually have brought up with you that a high number of this squad have at some point played HAL, but you seem to dismiss this in favour of a purely HAL based or raised player, i.e. a player from an A-League youth team who has progressed through the ranks to make into the Socceroos without European or overseas experience. And yes, there aren't many players who fit this bill. But it's also only been 11 years now. Clubs are only now beginning to build proper extensive youth systems (12-18). For a better measurement of how our professional league is supplying talent to our national team I suggest looking toward the Olyroos. Of the current 23 called up for double friendlies with Korea 12 had their development solely in Australia and at A-League clubs (though not solely at A-League clubs as this is impossible). Of the 14 who aren't in that squad but who have been called up in the past twelve months, 11 fit this profile of A-League developed talent. So I would watch the Olyroos, to see whether they can qualify as one of the 3/16 spots open for AFC teams at next years Olympics, analyse the quality of their play as well, not just the quantity of wins and goals. With an age profile of 18-22 this Olyroos team is a group which have been 11 or younger when the A-League began and is in my opinion quite clearly the best measure you can find of the impact eleven years of professional football has had on player development for our national team, especially when the results of the Olyroos since Barcelona in '92 have been so poor. And finally, remember that football is game of long duration, both on and off the pitch. A loss today does not necessitate future losses, and it does not always indicate a failed system or a waste of the time leading up to the loss. Football's beauty is that it is a qualitative game, not a quantitative one. 4 is a lonely, arbitrary number, and what I see on the pitch in the A-League speaks far greater stories.

AZ - Careful. Roda were playing in the Dutch Cup which must closely follow our own FFA Cup, for the team they beat 3-0 are in fact an amateur team that plays in the Dutch Amateur League. So it was probably a good game in which to give their new Aussie recruits a run in the team. Da Silva came on as a substitute..Cheers jb

Interesting read financials for the year at Arsenal ( http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150918/club-announces-latest-financial-results?guid=4924C88B-CB5E-E211-8C30-0050568C07EE) ...

Punter- I have too much respect for you to get into an argument but I have to remind you of the huge influx of black people brought into Britain,not only to help the war effort, but to aid in the reconstruction of bombed out cities,in fact it was not until 1961 that the British government of the day were forced to legislate a curtailmant of "immigrants" coming from former British colonies and protecterates in the West Indies and all around Africa. France also had the same problem having used vast numbers of people from their protecterates all along the coast of North Africa many of whom chose to stay in mainland France where they were treated as heroes. You will note we are in a political field now and this is not the place for such discussion. You then appear to digress in your viewpoint citing Robbie Slater as an example of an Aussie player making good and go on to mention "giant " clubs Barcelona etc,where to the best of my knowledge there are and have never been Aussie players in their squads so perhaps it is better to stick to lower identities.By the way Slater,Farina, Okon to name a few all played in France Punter I have to correct another part of your comment.The idea of 'total football" did not originate in Holland with English coaches,the idea of the better use of players positionally started in Austria in the late 1920's and early 30's and it is widely accepted that the "coaching revolution" started there ,with Russia (1945),Hungary (1950) and Spain ,or more correctly Real Madrid (1960), driving the message home to British football between 1945 and 1960.Even then it took England another 6 years before the "message" sunk in and they reached the WC final in 1966 closely followed by Celtic and Man Utd winning the EC in the following 2 years but even then it was not until 1976 that English club football finally got the message.and after German and Dutch clubs for 7 years "did their bit" in this comp, finallythe English clubs put together an 8 year domination of EC finals.This was following on the obvious "rises" in domination by Spain,Portugal and Italy in the same comp. By this time,1984 player movement as we know it today had begun to influence squads all across Europe (many Dutch players heading for the big money in Spain and Italy) and still goes on unabated today.Ever noticed how many Americans have come and gone in recent times,a place where we were told football would never take root.It is a very lengthy subject Punter and to each his own in the opinion stakes, but the facts should never be twisted to suit the points being made. Cheers mate jb

Great stuff. Roda have done incredibly well in the first season back in the top flight. They're 6th and only 1 point behind Dutch giants PSV. Hope they can maintain this form as the season goes on. It's now both harder and more exciting than ever to follow Aussies abroad. A real reflection of the increasing globalisation of the game.

The Rodaroos made an impact in the Dutch cup overnight in a 3-1 victory. Rostyn Griffiths played another 90, Juric scored and De Silva laid on the pass for the third.

JB, you bring up 2 subjects. Firstly it's not just establishment of the European union, there is also a very large influx of Sth American & Africans that didn't exist 20 years ago, not to this extent. I give the example of Robbie Slater, a great Aussie player, but today, would he be anywhere near a squad for a Barcelona. Chelsea, PSG, Bayern Munich or Juventus? He did back then. This is what I'm saying the times have a changed. As for foreigners benefiting the the English game at the detriment of the 4 UK national teams. I think this is only part of the issue, while foreigners & a smattering of British players are playing in the better clubs, the majority of the British players play in the lower clubs where there is a more direct & survival mentality rather then skill. This is why Mile Jedinak thrives in the lower level PL teams or higher level championship teams but struggle against the more skillful, speedy but smaller Asian players. However the demise in the 4 UK national teams has more to do with football revolution led by Barcelona & Spain. While you have previously given me a football lesson that the total football originated back in the 50s with English coaches & then great Hungarian the revolution never really took global proportions until recently with Spain & Barcelona. No longer was grit & determination enough. Look at a player like Yaya Toure, in Spain he was the donkey, who provided the power, the grit, the determination for the likes of Xavi & Inesita. In England, he is one of the better attacking players in England. These days most holding midfielders & defenders (those providing the grit & determination) are also very highly skilled players.

He readily admitted himself on more than one occasion that his greatest attribute was determination.

No they cant. The clubs are all being bled dry by the PFA.

Well you must be all dreaming if you think the A-league can be played at high tempo in the middle of summer. Considering the temperatures and humidity at which games are played I think the speed of games is more than adequate.

Fuss and Punter - Those examples your replies stated as to the movement of players are just a little pathetic. There is a political agenda to be considered,the main one being the establishment of the European Union that saw the "legalisation " of movement between countries and so an increase of "foreigners " into various football leagues just had to happen. Punter- A question. Has it bettered the standard of English football?. Of course it has but to the detriment of the 4 UK national teams. Agree? Fuss,- you accuse me of picking names to suit my argument but apparently ignore the part where I said I had only used "world class stars" to demonstrate how player movement had been in vogue long before the years you suggested.I did say there were more ,as there is,but I think my point was well explained to others if not you. Sorry about that. Cheers jb