Welcome to day four of The Roar‘s Group 1 Australian racing calendar restructure.
On Monday, Justin and I discussed what we believe are the flaws were in the current set-up.
On Tuesday, I gave you our structure for the Melbourne and Sydney spring carnivals. And yesterday, Justin took you through our proposed changes to the Sydney and Melbourne autumn carnivals.
There has been much discussion and debate already, and some fantastic ideas generated. Today, we look at the changes we believe are required to the racing calendar in Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia, focussing on the Group 1s, but also some other feature races in those jurisdictions.
After the Melbourne spring, concluding with Cup week at Flemington and the Sandown meeting, the racing carnival moves to Perth.
Western Australia has a long history of providing great horses to race in the eastern states, but are their Group 1 races worthy of the status?
Railway Stakes: Group 1
Winterbottom Stakes: Downgrade to Group 2
Almost 130 years old, the Railway is the most prestigious race in Western Australia – a mile handicap that attracts interstate visitors looking for an easier Group 1, but rarely do the home gallopers give it up.
We believe this race should keep its Group 1 status, and in our calendar with the Emirates now being run at weight-for-age, this handicap should attract a deeper field of east coast horses that are still fit and ready to race on.
The Winterbottom was only converted to a Group 1 five years ago, but it has provided some thrilling finishes and the list of winners since the turn of the century does stack up well. But we believe the depth of this race doesn’t stand up to be counted as an elite race.
Kingston Town Classic: Downgrade to Group 2
The Kingston Town is getting downgraded to a Group 2, where it would be a fine weight-for-age race for that status, but not worthy of the top level.
Moriarty, winner of this race in 2014, is a good example here – three to four lengths off being a Group 1 horse in Melbourne and Sydney. Playing God, which won the Kingston Town twice in 2010-11, was competitive enough when he came to Melbourne, but was also four to five lengths off the pace. Should he be known as a dual Group 1 winner? We say no.
Perth Cup: Group 2, change back to 3200m
The staying ranks in Australia are getting stronger again due to the influx of imports, and like many, Justin and I love a 3200-metre city Cup. It’s time to bring these back.
The Queensland and South Australian carnivals currently overlap with the Sydney autumn, kicking off their lower black type races while Sydney is still going strong. It is a challenge to set up a calendar that benefits both of them, and some minor clashes are unavoidable, particularly working backwards from the Stradbroke on Queen’s Birthday weekend, which is a good finishing point.
The Adelaide carnival is particularly fractured, with their two highest profile races held more than two months apart.
The Goodwood: Group 1, revert back to a handicap, as it was for over 110 years
Adelaide Cup: Group 2
Australasian Oaks/South Australian Oaks: Combine races to become 2500m Group 2
The Goodwood is synonymous with Adelaide racing, and will sit in our calendar as the fourth sprint (1200m or less) Group 1 of the second half of the season (along with the Lightning, Newmarket, TJ Smith), to match the four in the first half (Moir, Oakleigh Plate, Manikato, VRC Classic).
We see this race as almost a second tier Newmarket. Handicap horses can race in this off a freshen from the Newmarket or Galaxy, and it is also only three weeks after the TJ Smith.
Horses going to Queensland can also use it as a kick-off point – three weeks to get to Brisbane for the BTC Cup, then two weeks into the Doomben 10,000 and two weeks again into the Stradbroke.
The Goodwood will also be a target for three-year-old colts desperate for a Group 1, which will add another dynamic to the race.
We have the Adelaide Cup two weeks after the Sydney Cup, for any stayers that want to race on for a crack at another quality race. Currently a Group 2 held in early or mid-March, the Adelaide Cup doesn’t attract a field worthy of even that status.
We believe in two Group 1 Oaks – one in the Melbourne spring, one in the Sydney autumn. Holding this version of the Oaks on this day is for similar reasons to the Adelaide Cup; two weeks after the Australian Oaks gives those fillies a chance at another race while still fit and in form.
Hollindale Stakes: Group 2
A complementary race to the Morphettville card on the same day, which is attracting sprinters, stayers and three-year-old fillies, the Hollindale is for the second tier weight-for-age horses. This race can get horses from the Doncaster, Queen Elizabeth or even the new Chipping Norton (1400m WFA) the week before.
SA Derby: Downgrade to Group 2
Queen of the South: Group 2
Similar to the Oaks described above, we believe in two Group 1 Derbies in Australia – one in the Melbourne spring, one in the Sydney autumn.
Robert Sangster Stakes: Downgrade to Group 2
This works for mares that have run in the Goodwood two weeks before. It is also three weeks into the Tattersall’s Tiara in Queensland, which can then lead into the Stradbroke if they are good enough.
Doomben Cup: Group 1
This is the grand final for the weight-for-age horses tackling the Brisbane carnival, two weeks after the Hollindale. This should ensure that a number of very good horses come up after contesting the autumn, given that they only need to have two more runs for another crack at a Group 1.
Remember, in our calendar there are far less Group 1s available to all types of horses, so if they want to claim elite status, they will have to race on. We believe this will ensure great depth in all Group 1s.
BTC Cup: Downgrade to Group 2
Queensland Guineas: Group 2, to be renamed the Cole Diesel Classic
Dane Ripper Stakes: Downgrade to Group 3
Champagne Stakes: Downgrade to Group 3
The first Saturday where Brisbane gets clean air, with four quality races kicking off a five-week carnival where they are the focus of the all feature racing in the country.
The BTC Cup is still the first really good sprint of the Brisbane carnival, but it has now been downgraded. The Dane Ripper has been brought forward two weeks, to still be a fortnight before the newly scheduled Tattersall’s Tiara. The Champagne Stakes is the first leg of the Brisbane two-year-old Triple Crown.
The Queensland Guineas, which we’ve renamed the Cole Diesel Classic, formerly on Stradbroke Handicap day, has been brought forward to keep in line with the Melbourne spring and Sydney autumn, where the three-year-old mile race precedes the longer races for that age group. We anticipate this race being for both colts and fillies.
Justin and I would rename all races that currently carry the Guineas moniker, with the exception of the Caulfield Guineas, Thousand Guineas and Australian Guineas. Firstly, this would make the Guineas name sacred in this country.
Secondly, it would open up a huge amount of races that can be renamed to honour horses, trainers, jockeys, administrators, callers, journalists, or whoever the raceclubs like.
Do we really need a Port Adelaide Guineas? Why can’t it be named after ‘Gentleman’ Jim Courtney, a champion jockey in South Australia through the 1970s and ’80s, who rode three winners of the race for Colin Hayes.
We’ve chosen Cole Diesel here, the best Queenslander to win the race in the last 30 years, who went on to take out the Toorak Handicap and Caulfield Cup that same year.
Since we are downgrading most of the Brisbane Group 1s to Group 2, it follows on that the races preceding these get downgraded from Group 2 to Group 3.
O’Shea Stakes: Group 2
Doomben Roses: Group 3
The O’Shea Stakes is a post-script to the Doomben Cup for weight-for-age horses in Queensland, similar to the Mackinnon Stakes (which we downgraded to a Group 2) after the Cox Plate while also serving as a preliminary final for the stayers before the Brisbane Cup. The Doomben Roses fulfils this role for the staying fillies before the Oaks.
Doomben 10,000: Downgrade to Group 2
Tattersall’s Tiara: Downgrade to Group 2, move from two weeks after the Stradbroke to two weeks before
Sires Produce: Downgrade to Group 3
Grand Prix: Downgrade to Group 3
The Doomben 10,000 is the last weight-for-age race for the sprinter-miler types, while also serving as the preliminary final for the Stradbroke. The Tattersall’s Tiara now serves a similar purpose for the mares.
The Sires Produce and Grand Prix are also the preliminary finals for their respective target races.
Brisbane Cup: Group 2, change back to 3200m
Queensland Oaks: Downgrade to Group 2
The Brisbane Cup is the grand final for the stayers of the Brisbane Carnival. We’ve converted this Cup back to 3200m as well, and made it the feature of the day. Racing will feel more whole again with 3200m Cups in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth.
The Oaks is the grand final for the staying fillies, which also have the option of backing up in the Derby next week if they want one more bite of the cherry.
Stradbroke Handicap: Group 1
Queensland Derby: Downgrade to Group 2
JJ Atkins: Downgrade to Group 2
The Straddy, Queensland’s premier race, maintains its status but is now the final Group 1 of the year, enriching its importance further still. It will be even more of a target now, with less Group 1s for the sprinter-milers across the entire racing season.
The Queensland Derby and the JJ Atkins fulfil their roles respectively as grand finals for staying colts and geldings, as well as the two-year-olds.
The above calendar celebrates and appropriately respects the rich history of racing in each state, with the preservation of Group 1 handicaps like the Stradbroke, Goodwood and Railway. Each race is the first one people think of when you ask them about the best Group 1 in these states.
Queensland, as the third most important racing jurisdiction, is allowed a second Group 1 race, giving weight-for-age middle-distance horses a target in the winter if they suffered a delayed start to their autumn, or for the fit horses from Sydney that want to keep going.
We have increased the relevance of the Adelaide Cup and brought the Brisbane and Perth Cups back to its historic two miles. These races are cousins of Australia’s greatest race, the Melbourne Cup, and it would be nice to see them rise again. Tradition is important.
Join us again tomorrow, where we recap the week, and Justin takes aim at other problems that racing currently faces.
Cameron Rose
Expert
G'day Mike, I'm from Vic, and Justin is from NSW, which we have made clear, and I believe we have cut up to 20 Group 1's from the Melbourne and Sydney calendar. But the fact is that there are two powerful racing states, and from a national perspective, that's where the best horses race. I also understand Sheek's argument, that there is a case to be made for a more equitable spread to G1's, to provide the other states with some impetus. It is also a debate worth having. But Justin and I have put together the case we believe in, this week.
Cameron Rose
Expert
Thanks Casper. The stayers can run in the O'Shea, similar to how the BMW is used before the Sydney Cup, but you're right, we would need another lower rated race in there as another lead-up to the Brisbane Cup. I suppose Qld has the Magic Millions in Jan, while Perth has the focus in December, but I like the thinking behind it. I think the internationals are a great addition to the Melbourne Cup, but you're right, probably too many inferior ones are getting in on ratings. We think by increasing the ballot-free spots, particularly in the Metrop and Caulfield Cup, this will help.
Cameron Rose
Expert
I can understand the Guineas commentary Sheek. We're just talking about our personal preference, making the Guineas name sacred in this country. I love those suggestions, I knew you'd come through!
sheek
Roar Guru
Mike, If you've been following the series, you'll find that Cam & Justin have been ruthless to all states. The G1s in Melbourne & Sydney have copped a hammering. The reality is, there are far too many G1s in Australia. Another reality is that, some undeserving G1s may have to be propped up in Qld, SA & WA. Cam & Justin have been as fair as a pair of guys can be. We can disagree with them on the ranking of the odd race here or there, but overall, they have done a mighty job. The truth is, & it's a brutal truth, the Australian racing industry has been overinflated in importance to horse buyers, sponsors, media, punters & genuine racing lovers, & done for the benefit of racing clubs & breeders. The corporate bookies clean up any case. Someone eventually will have to do the dirty job of peeling back the facade.
Mike from tari
Guest
If you guys are from Melbourne then I understand why you would want to change & downgrade other states Group Racing, why would people who own horses in Qld & punters who enjoy racing have their Group Races downgraded, include sponsors in this as well.
sheek
Roar Guru
PJ, While what you say might be true, I think SA is entitled, no, make that encouraged, to have 2/3 group ones. Certainly the Goodwood, while we can argue the toss on the other one or two. While I think NSW & Vic are definitely over supplied with G1s, the minor states actually need encouraging for their major carnival.
sheek
Roar Guru
Thanks Cameron, I'm a little perplexed here. You & Justin say there should only be three Guineas (so named) - the Caulfield (2000) Gns & 1000 Gns over 1600m at Caulfield, & the Australian Gns over 2000m, transferred from Caulfield to Randwick, or Rosehill. I actually think each state should have their own 2000 & 1000 Gns over 1600m. I do like the Australian Gns over 2000m, however, as well as Derby & Oaks. As for names, wow, that's testing me. The Fisher family was famous in both SA (their home state) & Victoria. The Fisher Stks was the leading WFA race leading into the Adelaide Cup. While the CB Fisher Plate was a gut-wrenching 1.5 miles WFA race on Stakes day after the Melbourne Cup. Back in 1966, after conquering both the Caulfield Cup & Melbourne Cup, Galilee confirmed himself a quality horse by causing Tobin Bronze to lose his first WFA race that spring. In 1967 & 1968 respectively, General Command & Rain Lover both progressed from good handicappers to quality WFA horses by winning the CB Fisher. So the Fisher name could sub the Gns in Adelaide. Colonel Light ( the founder of Adelaide) is another who could be honoured. Over in the west, the best horse to come from that state was Eurythmic, around 1920. A beautifully named horse, he could replace the Perth Gns. George Moore was Qld born & raised, his name could replace the Brisbane Gns.
Pepper Jack
Guest
There one was a Clause that the AJC and VRC were the principal clubs and controlled racing in those states. Times change
bill
Guest
agree - hands of the 10000
bill
Guest
so why not move the derbies and oaks away from Melbourne and Sydney (probs not the VRC derby) but the other 3 could be spread across the country.
Casper
Guest
As a Qlder I agree that quite a few of our group races require downgrading but there's a lack of a staying handicap leading into the Brisbane Cup which you have sensibly returned 3200m. Hollindale in April leads into the Doomben Cup, both at WFA so where do the handicappers go? I may stand corrected but wasn't the O'Shea a handicap in bygone days. I'd also restore the Doomben Cup to 2200m, nothing more spectacular than that large field Charing down the straight from the shute at the top of the straight. The Qld racing authorities should also consider trading the Champagne stakes on BTC stakes day (May 14) to get a group 3 summer championship for 3 year olds in December/January. Would spark interest in a quiet period. The icing on the cake for the Brisbane & Adelaide cups at 3200m would be slightly rejigged Melbourne cup qualification which currently advantages lower quality European stayers, many of whom just make up the numbers. Should those two handicaps be a quality with maximum top weights? Very impressed by your logic throughout these articles but self interest will be the stumbling block.
Justin Cinque
Expert
Hi Wal, In relation to Point 1, I don't think so. In relation to Point 2, there is nothing stopping any club from running any of their races at any prizemoney. By all means run the G2 Winterbottom at $2m to the winner. Fair call on point 3. Opinions make the racing world go round.
Cameron Rose
Expert
1. I don't know. That would be interesting to find out. I suspect not, given several have been added in the last decade, but few taken away? 2. I guess we're more about order and flow of G1 racing across the country, and obviously a lot of our G1 cuts are to do with cutting down the options for breeders. Prizemoney analysis would be the natural extension of this exercise. 3. Think of a house that adds a garage to one side, then extends out the back, then maybe add on a second story. Starts looking ugly and disjointed. Better to build the perfect house from scratch, no? The AFL has tied itself in knots with adding on rule after rule. It would also benefit from a step back and simplifying. Yeah, that could be argued, and I'd be happy to read it on this site from you Wal. And you could go completely the other way and let the states catch and kill their own unfettered. Clearly Vic and NSW are going to win out there.
Justin Cinque
Expert
I'm with you peeeko
Justin Cinque
Expert
I would say the argument is that as it stands all SA and probably WA G1s don't cut the mustard. In our restructured climate I can make a case to say they deserve what they have been given.
Wal G
Guest
Point 1: Is there a clause within Australian Pattern Committee etc that states that each jurisdiction is entitled to a certain amount of G1/G2 etc races Point 2: Not once have you mentioned Prizemoney? At the EOTD that is what motivates owners, G1 is nice next to name for breeding/prestige but return to owners often a bigger motivator. Race clubs are allowed to compete against each other so what is there to stop WA having a G2 winterbottom worth a $1m Point 3: nice exercise if you were starting from scratch, but not overly realistic. Think the authors have overreached in a few areas, particularly interstate transfers and renaming guineas races. I could easily argue against a national calendar citing each states sovereignty along the EU model
Cameron Rose
Expert
That's a pretty good call on the JJ Atkins. Waller especially knows how to target it (and I know he's got a horse in mind for it this year too, yet to debut). I could definitely consider that as a Group 1 given the downgrade to the Champagne.
Cameron Rose
Expert
Love that analysis Darren, and that's the sort of flow we're talking about. Great idea to re-distribute those funds from the Stakes races that would be wiped. I haven't owned a horse for a while, but I'm of the belief that a Saturday city winner should pay for the rough equivalent of a year of trainer fees. I'm not sure if that's workable or just a pipe dream.
Peeeko
Guest
That's all that is required
Nathan Absalom
Roar Guru
Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of this. I think SA and WA should have a Group 1, but they really have to find a niche and stick to it. The Stradbroke lifts the whole winter carnival by being unique. Maybe the JJ Atkins could remain Group 1 though. It has a surprisingly good winners list and it's at the right time for a 2yo mile. It's worth more than the Champagne in Sydney, which you've downgraded as well. But it's a minor quibble.