Are we all in denial about the Hawks?

They were up against one of the best coaches of all-time though.

One reason I feel that people are irritated by Hawthorn premierships is the structure of modern football. With all the talent concentrated in one competition, and with the death of State of Origin, the entire focus has moved to the AFL. Everyone has their eggs in the same basket. At least under the old system -- if you lived in southern NSW as I did -- you could barrack for your local team as well as having an interest in the VFL, VFA, SANFL, WAFL, or even the Sydney or Brisbane comps. And even if one of your teams didn't win the Seniors, you might pick up a Reserves or Under-19s trophy.

What was the excuse at the start of the season with a full list of spuds when the Gold Coast rolled them? Or their poor record last year from about round 10 onwards? Explain the Dockers 20 years of mediocrity.

Oh Jack. You don't know that is Freo's WAFL club? Freo had to draw on them because of their 15 plus injured players all year. That gap in your knowledge explains your comments.

Geezus Dean, Hawks do no development and just rely on a player's abilities!!!! No wonder your mob is absolutely nowhere. Hawthorn do it better than anyone else, including geelong. They don't clear out ageing champions to release funds in the salary cap like the Cats did with their players. Mitchell, Burgoyne, Hodge managed properly are still better than anyone else and have earned the right to call it when they want. Hawks are by far the best run club in the competiton on and off field, you better get used to it because that's not going to change. Who are you refferring to that hasn't been developed through their system? Franklin, Rough, Cyril, Clinton Young, Birchall, Hodge, Mitchell, Isaac Smith, Brad Hill , all came in to the system along with Clarkson who no one else would give a gig. All are now superstars because of the Hawthorn way of doing things. Lately Langford, O'Brien, Sicily, Ceglar (who Colliwobbles discarded) and Durea.have been developed in house and we expect them to be superstars of the future. Folllowing on with your skewed line of thinking, Ceglar in 2 years time would be someone hawthorn exploited under free agency!! He was dumped by collingwood, end of story. So was Lake and Burgoyne, who had knee reconstruction and they wouldn't renew his contract, Hawthorn took a punt and gave him a contract. Exploited the system?? Lake couldn't get a game at the Dogs so he had no value except to Hawthorn, who subsequently reinvented him and went on to win three premiership medallions. Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story Dean. I cant think of another club that would keep rolling on when they lost Franklin for no money, Suckling for no money, Roughy due to illness, three walk up start stars in any club you'd like to mention. Its no accident they are where they are.

not a hawks fan, just giving my opinion. re hawks advantage from gws and gold coasts birth - i didn't mention it, because it is more than nullified by the benefits brisbane enjoyed from the 'merger' with fitzroy, and like that is neither here nor there when we are simply discussing which is the better team, not why.

I wasn’t talking up West Coast, after seeing that drubbing and knowing what I know of that side I was comfortable saying they wouldn’t be back atop the dais next year. I don’t agree with you much on anything andy, but I do agree that teams that get thumped in grand finals usually take a couple of years to recover and return, and heal those mental scars.

Gibson,Hale, Frawley and Gunston all improved after arriving at Hawthorn. Gibson and Gunston particularly so.

Do a bit more homework, Dean - Lake did not arrive thru free agency - he was traded in. Only Frawley arrived by that avenue. Hawks are a nett loser in free agency with Suckling, and Franklin departing as free agents.

You forgot to mention that the Hawks have apparantely done better out of free agency than any other club

I can't think of one example of a player from another club that Hawthorn took from good to great. Gibson, Lake, Hale, Burgoyne, Gunston were all just as good at their previous clubs. Likewise those who have left have not got any worse: Suckling, Kennedy, Franklin for example. They drafted well with early picks, which they had a lot of (Hodge, Franklin, Roughead, Lewis, Rioli, Smith) and made good of some late picks (Mitchell, Poppy, Breust), then exploited free agency to woo guys like Lake and Frawley to fill key roles. Also traded well to get Gunston and Burgoyne. But they haven't done anything exceptional in terms of player development. They do play a good system, but those guys were going to be stars no matter where they were playing and many have proven that either before or after being at Hawthorn. Just like Geelong (thanks to F/S), West Coast and Brisbane before them drafted well, that's the key to success in the current era.

Was it Peel Thunder ??..Crikey, you are scraping the barrel for depth and talent now...Still didn't work..

Haha, you were actually serious. That makes it even funnier. Look, I won’t burden you with too much fact, but the simple truth is that your comment about house prices is utterly irrelevant because the young players all deserting the club aren’t buying houses, they’re renting them. Of the guys who all walked out in 2013 – Polec, Carnezis, Docherty, Longer and Yeo, I believe 3 or 4 of those guys were all sharing a house together. Of far more import to players than the amount of a mortgage is, in no particular order – distance from club to family back home, quality of facilities, quality of football being played, supporter base, state of ground atmosphere played in front of, travel requirements, off-field support, quality of coaching – and in all instances the Lions are well down the list, hence more money is needed to help players overlook these deficiencies compared to other clubs. The proof surely is in the state of the Lions list – despite having made the finals once in 10 years, they have 4 top 20 draft picks on their list. That’s it. If you can’t see what a deplorable state of affairs that is and a resounding rebuttal of the AFL’s so-called equalisation policy you need your head examined. Reverse-COLA – you’re actually saying the Lions need less of a salary cap? Yeah that's a great idea because players are just breaking the door down to come to Brisbane to play for less money than they get elsewhere… Anyways, that's why your comment was stupid. In my view. Which has not changed.

How was my comment stupid? Surely if Sydney deserved a COLA then Brisbane deserved a reverse COLA.

How was Freo "vastly inferior" in the 2013 GF*? *With a caveat being the term "vastly inferior" being a totally subjective categorisation that renders it pretty much useless against any attempts at objectivity. For example a lot of people might've see the Lions as "vastly inferior" to the Bombers in 2001.

No, I'm going to blame the fact that nobody (barring St Kilda in the last round when Ross Lyon rested half the team) beat Freo by more than 7 goals that year because that was the type of game Freo played. We went out that day with a blue-collar plan and beat Freo at their own game. Because we were smart enough to know that's what it would take. If West Coast were such inferior opposition, why was everyone still talking up their flag hopes going into 2016?

Add Jono Brown as a Father/Son selection delivered by the merger. Despite all that I'm glad the leg up from the AFL went to Brisbane rather than Norf.

You played Freo and West Coast at the G, if that’s not vastly inferior opposition I don’t know what is. Are you going to blame the weather for not beating Freo by 10 goals?

Peel Thunder or full-strength line-up: we both know (along with everyone else) that the Freo Dockers never held any worries for the Hawks. Oh wait, just in, Don Freo says that the Dockers are a better team on paper than the Hawks! Oh wait, that was last year and he was still terribly wrong! Bahahahahaha!!!!

Glad I was able to give you a fresh take on it pauly.