The Big Rugby Championship Question: The case of the least-worst losers

By Brett McKay / Expert

So here we are, the funny bye weekend. It’s the weekend where the Australians and South Africans among us are left to stew on uncomfortable losses for another week.

Meanwhile, the Argentinians and New Zealanders rather quite enjoy themselves.

But that’s all about to change. For one thing, either the Australians or South Africans will soon have something to be happy about. Unless there’s a heartbreaking draw, that is.

And the Pumas? Well, right at the moment, I suspect they have no fears about the New Zealanders. But no-one does when they don’t have to play them for another week!

It’s a good question this week, with much anticipation around it, with ‘Nobes’ putting forward his first question to the panel. As expected, it’s a cracker.

The Big Question: Which team has the edge to come out as a winner in the game to be played between the Wallabies and Springboks and why? (from Nobes)

Nobes: “Are Australia and South Africa in such a bad shape as everyone is claiming to be the case or are the All Blacks way above everybody else? I think the latter is the case. The All Blacks, even when they are not playing “well”, can win with ease.

Therefore, I find myself in a very comfortable position to say that I think they already won The Rugby Championship. They have too many talented players, injuries are taxing the other teams, depriving them from the depth required to bring about the challenge attempt against the All Blacks.

So the excitement in this edition of the Rugby Championship is not in the games the All Blacks are playing – I would call these exhibition games- but in those matches New Zealand is not involved.

Next tipping will not require much thought about the game to be played in NZ, but it is major dare to predict about the one in Australia.

South Africa and the quota system is having a major impact on the Springboks as well.

You have the Wallabies that are having a hard time coping with the idea that rugby union is not a major Australian sport. That’s despite the fact that they have two Rugby World Cups in their bellies they have fail to attract the interest of the Australian people into rugby union.”

Diggercane: “A difficult question to weigh up, a nice curly one first up from our Argentinian contingent.

“In my mind I will have to say the Wallabies based on their harder preparation in terms of opposition to begin The Rugby Championship should leave them better prepared.

“I would also suggest the motivation will well and truly lies with the Wallabies given the game at home and while both teams have been savaged by fans and press alike, my gut feeling suggests the Wallabies will have the superior drivers.

“I am also really annoyed that Malcolm Marx is continually ignored which is stupidity in the extreme and I also do not believe the Springboks are playing with the form to exploit the Wallabies weaknesses.

“So, to end my rambling, Wallabies have the edge in my view.”

Harry Jones: “So, it’s the battle of the incompetent coaching staffs in Brisbane. The bitter blame-gamers against the nice but blissfully unaware. Two hookers dreadfully out of form ‘captaining’ their sides. Adriaan Strauss has played 398 of the 400 minutes of Allister Coetzee’s stuttering tenure.

Imagine if an in-form Malcolm Marx had played 250 minutes instead, with Bismarck du Plessis coming on in the second halves?

“Michael Cheika is the tragic tenor in some sort of rugby opera with sycophants at his side, wailing a lament. ‘Lineout, lineout, figaro, fooper, pooper, dooper, mama mia.’ Maybe it’s Tosca, in which all the main protagonists expire in the end.

“Assessing respective chances on the Gold Coast is tricky. Australia were never really in either Bledisloe. Meanwhile, the Puma-Bok series was gripping test footy with excellence on both sides at set piece and All Blacksolutely brutal tackling. But Coetzee and his assistants, particularly defence coach Chean Roux and backline coach Mzwandile Stick, are coaching their players down a few levels.

“The 10-12-13 Bok axis is clueless. Elton Jantjies is creating log jams with his hesitation moves, Damian de Allende is missing his tackles and his passes, and Lionel Mapoe is tentative. In addition, the Bok captain has been almost invisible; his only credential currently is pinpoint lineout throwing.

“Still it’s difficult to know if Australia was as bad as they looked. But it was bad rugby. Steve Hansen reckons the Bok-Puma tests were better rugby than the Bledisloes. I agree with Shag. I believe SA has easier fixes than OZ (kicking practice, use Johan Goosen differently, bench Jantjies, use PSDT more, build quicker ball); but I have less of an idea about this matchup than I have had in years.”

Brett McKay: I certainly agree with Harry’s point about it being tough to assess respective chances on the Gold Coast next weekend. Particularly when the game is being played up the highway in Brisbane.

But our learned South African friend is excused for such a simple mistake; after all, who hasn’t assumed the Stormers play in Port Elizabeth?

Regardless, his core reasoning is solid. I only this week wrote on another site that “…a lot of the angst Wallabies fans are currently feeling – and it’s a lot, believe me – is being shared by Springbok fans, too.” The parallels between the struggles of both teams are scarily similar.

So who’s better placed? Well, it might just be the Wallabies, but probably only because the game is being played in Australia. Had this question come up the week before the game at Loftus (which is in Johannesburg, yeah?), then I suspect the Springboks might have a slight edge.

As it is, I think the Boks have a clear lineout edge, though that’s cancelled out by the Wallabies performing pretty well at scrum time. The breakdown is pretty even – selection lotto notwithstanding – so it then comes down to the backline.

And here, funnily enough, I think Quade Cooper just gives the Wallabies a bit more stability and surety in contrast to Elton Jantjies. Let’s just ponder that sentence for a bit, shall we!

Cooper definitely added a little ‘something’ to the Wallabies attack last weekend, something that had been missing previously. I can’t entirely pin down what that something is, but it’s definitely there. And playing at home, on the back of what I expect will be the long-awaited news of his Reds return later today, will have Cooper primed for a big one.

Tips

Last week: Nobes, Brett, The Crowd 2; Digger and Harry 1

Very happy to report that Nobes broke his drought last week, getting both the All Blacks and his beloved Pumas right. Sadly for him though, so did I. Sadly for me, that means he’s still making somewhat scary threats.

And sadly for all of us, The Crowd is yet to blemish their record for The Rugby Championship.

The Summary

The Crowd Says:

2016-09-02T20:03:11+00:00

Nobrain

Guest


Sorry guys, I did the Q but left to a remote place in Patagonia without signal. I am happy for all the arguments and thank you.

2016-09-02T17:38:07+00:00

Carlos the Argie

Roar Guru


Nah, they were basically a defensive team that counter attacked decently. Clearly, without the flair of others but it was a good one. Of course, they needed to improve a lot to stay in the RC environment. A work in progress. But you will not they regressed significantly once Loffreda left and Phelan took the reins. He was way over his head, clueless.

2016-09-02T10:31:25+00:00

CUW

Guest


@ taylorman Holah is all black 999 mccaw is 1014 both played first in 2001 , though Holah is 4 years older. Dan Braid in 2002 and Masoe in 2005 Masoe was a flank who became a victim of versatility. he was ideal to replace any of the 3 - Collins Mccaw Soiiallo , as u have said. even with toulon , he played any of the 3 - depending on who was around. but then he was ideal on the bench - much like a Luatua :) i think Holah was seen as the heir to Kronfeld - he was older and more prominent in the club and super scene. but then they brought in mccaw .....

2016-09-02T05:30:19+00:00

Jokerman

Roar Guru


Carter started his career at second five. He went and played at the RWC '03 at second five. It wasn't until later that Henry switched him. Henry's initial thought was Carter would go wider. Carter needed quite a few games to adjust.

2016-09-02T03:21:28+00:00

Master Chief

Roar Pro


Do the two scenarios even compare ? South Africa won their series against Ireland. They also held of Argentina at home. The away game in Argentina is becoming increasingly tricky. They're not the first and won't be the the last to lose there. How is their start on level terms with the Wallabies ?

2016-09-01T23:05:09+00:00

Carlos the Argie

Roar Guru


Ristorante Camponeschi. Truly worth it. Eat outside. When they offer the black truffles on the pasta, be careful, they are amazing and amazingly expensive. Start with a nice glass of Prosecco. She will fall in love with you all over again. Hopefully, she is your wife.... :-)

AUTHOR

2016-09-01T22:08:07+00:00

Brett McKay

Expert


Yeah, what of it? I wrote that before the start of the Super Rugby season, and have obviously re-evaluated it since. Have you never got a prediction wrong in your life?

2016-09-01T21:53:41+00:00

Peter Robinson

Roar Rookie


Well this is a bombshell. Adriaan Strauss to retire from International Rugby at the end of the season. He's only 30. Players don't retire at that age unless they are wrecked by injury. Something else must be going on here.

2016-09-01T20:52:34+00:00

soapit

Guest


i guess my memory of their play is different.

2016-09-01T20:50:48+00:00

soapit

Guest


carlos they werent alone and yes they played to their strengths and did it well. they are playing much better rugby now in a style that will give them a much better chance at victory more often.

2016-09-01T17:33:48+00:00

Faith

Guest


Argentina in 5 seasons will easily be a top 5 team. They have committed to ball in hand rugby that does not compromise forwards physicality. Argentine tend to mentally dip in and out of games - so they won't beat the ABs. They will run them close for a bot then caught out in a one-two try punch. If ABs get a bonus point and Wallabies win they will claim the trophy the following as they'll have an unassailable of 15-16 points. Combrick a huge loss for S.A - he is a game changer and that probably tips the game in the favour of the Wallabies. It'll be close though. If the Wallabies lose its good night nurse. I'm super tired of all the Aus angst - somebody here said that the ABs are not that good. I think they are not as good as the Bledis-low games made them up to be ...

2016-09-01T17:32:38+00:00

Harry Jones

Expert


Yes, there are exceptions (hence my "almost all") but Richie M, Ihaia West, BBBBB, Cruden etc have all played 12 before and D Carter shifted there back in the day and even recently in FR or for Saders. I think it has to do with the 10 and the 12 being seen as a combo more than we do in SA. Dunno. SA's 10 and 15 are definitely more interchangeable than our 15 and wings.

2016-09-01T17:32:00+00:00

Derek Murray

Roar Rookie


I agree with half that comment Richard. If we get Fardy back and Coleman and Douglas actually hit some rucks (as opposed to flying straight through them) then we can split the breakdown but we are going to be slaughtered in the line out unless Cheika picks another jumping option and won't get enough ball to put any plan into place. I'm deeply pessimistic

2016-09-01T17:22:23+00:00

McCaw was onside?

Guest


Are you the same Brett that wrote the article about NZ being ripe for the plucking by a strong Wallaby side in 2016? ?

2016-09-01T17:17:51+00:00

McCaw was onside?

Guest


10 to 12. Giteau, Beale, Toomua, Lealiifano, Barnes, McCalistar, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Carter, Hernandez, H.Slade... I would suggest the least interchangable positions in the backline are 9 to 12 15 & 13 followed by 10 to 11 & 14 followed by 10 to 13.

2016-09-01T17:13:54+00:00

Derek Murray

Roar Rookie


As somebody who ha been back and forth to Rome of late for work, and who has a plan to drag wife there for anniversary next month - what is the name of the restaurant Carlos?

2016-09-01T17:11:35+00:00

Derek Murray

Roar Rookie


I'd also say that SA has a propensity to interchange 10 and 15 more than others. Goosen and Lambie are both recent good, and persistent, examples. We've never really done it successfully that I can recall.

2016-09-01T17:06:47+00:00

McCaw was onside?

Guest


I dont see Cheikas selections as that crazy. Its clear that Aus lacks quality creative backs and so when Giteau, Lealiiafano, Beale, JOC and Toomua are out you look at other options. Thats a lot of Australias creative talent out. McCalman at 6, Meh, no big scandal shifting an 8 to 6 if you severely lack depth there. Pocock at 8, this works much better than people are willing to accept. As for the quota system damaging SAs chances, they lost to Japan with none of these so called 'quota' players in the starting 15. SA are losing because they are not that good and only 1 or 2 of the entire 23 are missing out to 'quota' players now.

2016-09-01T16:52:37+00:00

McCaw was onside?

Guest


11 to 15? Like DHP, Brown, Watson, Nowell, Robinson, Mitchell, JOC, Piutau? It happens all the time. Not as common as 14 & 15 but... 6s and 7s do interchange in NZ. Mainly, like most countries, the skillset of a 6 & 8 are closer traditionally.

2016-09-01T16:43:59+00:00

McCaw was onside?

Guest


Crotty, SBW, Moala, Nonu, Umaga, Fekitoa are 12/13 type centres. Barrett, Cruden, Slade are not 12s. Donald, Carter, Sapoaga could get away at 12 but its rare they would play there.

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