GWS on course for fastest flag record

"Dead set, you’re still convinced that that was stymied by Sydney" I don't know who ultimately stymied it. But I do know Sydney wanted it to fail because they saw it as a threat to their market. Interesting that the same clubs who say there are too many teams in Melbourne get angsty when one of those teams decides to explore a new market.

Dead set, you're still convinced that that was stymied by Sydney. What nonsense. You might be able to persuade yourself of your ridiculous theories, but don't expect anyone else to accept the absurd.

This is hilarious. Did Jude Bolton kick sand in your face when you were kids together or something?

I know that the figure was actually deflated because one of the games was played on a day when the Harbour Bridge was shut for a Reconciliation march and the temperature in Sydney was in single figures for much of the day. I also know that the figure would've been higher if the Swans hadn't smugly run a stay-away campaign against the matches.

"Those teenagers aren’t then going to move out to the boonies with the people that might be getting paid less than them" Exactly. They're going to live in Bondi like any teenager would if they were on six figures, and if for some reason they can't afford their Bondi rent on a six-figure salary then their mothers are just as capable of supporting them as they would be if the player was in any other part of the country. I would like you to tell me what other sporting competition (or other industry, for that matter) in the world has a salary cap that varies depending on the cost of living in a player's town. And in the unlikely event that you can name one, I want you to tell me whether that cost-of-living allowance applies across the competition or whether it singles out one city as the expensive city and treats all other cities as if they were the same as each other.

If you remember it well, then presumably you know that the average crowd is inflated by the one game they played on a public holiday weekend, and that crowds only got lower over time. It was a serious embarrassment that was quickly ditched.

The COLA argument about expensive rents is a furphy anyway as there's no way an 18 year old fringe AFL player is living by himself. They share houses together, usually 3-4 of them to a house or live with a senior player.

The concessions between all clubs have been vastly different. Port Adelaide got peanuts compared to all interstate clubs.

Most teenagers don't get to even consider living on their own or buying home and brand new cars at 18 the way AFL players do. Most teenagers have another 4 years of collage or an apprenticeship to serve before they even think about making money. I fail to see how making 50k+ as an 18 year old is difficult, at all.

Your last point makes no sense as most Sydneysiders are not uprooted from their support systems in other states and dropped into the most expensive market in the Country as a teenager. Those teenagers aren't then going to move out to the boonies with the people that might be getting paid less than them, away from the Club's support structures, just so they have enough to rent and live. I also wouldn't mind knowing what 'some other concession' might be. Is it possible you have a very flimsy grip on the whole COLA discussion and are just speculating here and if that is the case, how much of the real issue of COLA do you know as it relates to the Swans? Try writing something that doesn't come across as it it was spat out from between clenched teeth.

Yes, I remember well. Their five home games that weren't against the Swans got an average crowd of 10,829. For most years until 1995 the Swans struggled to average more than 12,000 and that was despite monopolising the market and being based there. So I don't think North's crowds were too bad in the circumstances. Did the Swans have a better idea on how to get a second NSW team working? All I remember was them asking the AFL to make the club logo part of any initiative to promote the game in that state. Sounded like monopoly-seeking to me.

Do you even remember North's attempts to play games at the SCG? They played in front of near empty stadiums, and made the game look ridiculous in Sydney's home market. Of course the Swans opposed it - it was a bad idea and if memory serves was dumped before the end of its three year trial period. I agree that Sydney on their own can't hope to service all of New South Wales, and an extra team will make that a little easier. But equally adding a new franchise down the road carried all sorts of risks with it - just look at how Brisbane have fared - and absolutely they're entitled to some scepticism about the impact it'll have on them. They have fought a long hard slog to grow the game in a very hostile market over 35 years. Snarling about how they could have done more outside Sydney is petty.

There is no point to miss. You’re just having a whinge about the swans and saying they’re self interested. Along with every other club out there. The Lions weren't thrilled about the Suns setting up on the Gold Coast either. If a 3rd team was started in WA Dockers and the Eagles would whinge. You have said nothing that wouldn't equally apply to another club in the Swans circumstances. But hey, you grind that axe some more.

Paul D, again you're missing the point. The Swans like to think they're the ultimate evidence of a successful national competition, yet they have opposed many attempts to grow the game in NSW/ACT. Not only the inclusion of GWS, but North's attempt many years ago to entertain the Sydney market. Common sense has always dictated that a national competition requires a national strategy and not one that treats a particular club from ritzy beachside and harbourside suburbs as too big to fail. I'm waiting for the Swans to admit that.

The trading ban was largely to do with the removal of COLA and the threat of the Swans using their phase-out to recruit a couple more stars and front-end their contracts. GWS avoid such a ban if it accepted a shorter phase-out period or some other concession. COLA makes no sense anyway given that footballers are on higher salaries than most Sydneysiders.

It’s an interesting question – I think in some respects the AFL still sees GWS as some sort of lab experiment, something they’ve grown in a petri dish or a vat – their success, or lack thereof in coming years will be pivotal in determining how it long takes for the AFL to sever the umbilical cord and take more of a hard-nosed stance towards them as a club amongst equals, rather than as an adolescent club in need of nourishment.

I'd expect the Swans to say congratulations and this is fantastic for AFL in NSW. The Swans were opposed to the expansion due to their perceived susceptibility to competition. Some Swans suporters have jumped ship but the market has grown. The Swans now have a better stadium with the new grandstand, a better long term stadium deal and improved sponsorship. Success on the field has seen a big increase in membership. I think the Swans feel a lot more secure now than seven or eight years ago when the expansion was being planned. Personally I thought the AFL were making a terrible mistake and would lose money for years. I was wrong. Spotless Stadium is a great boutique stadium and they have a good deal there. The extra broadcast money ensures the AFL is on a winner and the Giants will probably be making money soon. The Giants Academy has been very successful and we are seeing a huge improvement in junior football in NSW that has added to numbers of players recruited from NSW and adding to the quality of the competition. The Giants may win the next three to five Premierships and with each one the hatred will grow. I'm sure the AFL will do things like take away the Riverina from the Academy zone and remove the COLA. They may even do something like a trading ban since they have a precedent.

By that logic there are probably 17 clubs who don't give a fig about a national competition because everyone has whinged about GWS at some stage over the past few years. What are you even saying? That the Swans are self-interested? Shock. Horror.

That is expected, given that there are more AFL fans south of the Murray. The same way that when the Melbourne Storm wins NRL premierships there are more whingers in Sydney than there are in NZ or North Queensland. My point is that for too long, the Swans' hypocrysies about building the game in NSW and the ACT have been ignored by certain people. If the Swans keep whinging after a GWS flag then surely it is the ultimate proof they don't care about a national competition.

I assure you if GWS win the flag whatever the Swans say will be drowned out by the deafening squeals of injustice coming from south of the Murray.