Spiro Zavos has a long association with rugby, so his knowledge and experience must be respected. But he’s wrong about the value of drop goals.
His opinion is right in that “Kicking drop goals is an unrated skill”, as it’s near impossible to rate the tension, field and weather conditions, and game-balance circumstances.
Even place kicks are a tough nut to crack, but factor in the more difficult snap of the drop-goal, distances and run-defence pressure, and the computer rolls over at the thought of calculation.
Just because Australia are rubbish at it – mostly always have been – doesn’t mean it should be scrapped or downgraded.
The drop goal is part of the game, always has been. It’s part of the panopoly of scoring options available to a team and, as such, is there to be harvested by a competent team. It’s especially vital in a game which is tight, which it often is in Test rugby union – and was in South Africa vs Australia.
There have been some cracking examples of game breaking or winning drop-goal attempts. Think Stephen Larkham’s classic pearler in the 1999 World Cup.
There have also been many examples of teams not attempting a drop-goal, usually where they think they can do better and score a try, or simply because they don’t have the skill set. Wales versus 13 Australians thought they had good chances to score a try, when a drop-goal or two might have been a better option.
I acknowledge and agree with Spiro’s point that rugby is commercial entertainment and people prefer tries to goal – of any description. But I disagree that people don’t want to see drop goals, citing “booing from Australian and New Zealand fans… when a player shapes up to kick one.”
As Spiro acknowledged, “The home crowd were ecstatic when [Morne] Steyn did his thing”. It’s a precision skill, executed under pressure. What more do you want?
The Aussie crowds may boo, but that’s possibly because their team seemingly cannot do it. A lot also reckon penalties should be worth fewer points, likely because they can’t kick them either. Or conversions.
And the New Zealand crowd boo everything these days, especially if it’s done by the opposition. If they value, respect and want to watch great skill, then why would they boo Quade Cooper in his pomp? No, they’re just highly partisan.
Crowds may be down in Australia because there are not enough tries, but it’s not because there are too many drop goals. Crowds are up in Europe, where the drop goal is a more utilised scoring technique. The stadia are jam-packed in England – Bath has a full house every week and nearly every week George Ford pops in a droppie.
The value seems right to me – same as a penalty, but you don’t have to wait two minutes to see it kicked. You don’t have to wait ten fouls at the breakdown, hope to get lucky with a referee call, or have a power-scrum to get one. It’s a tougher skill and the opposition get a chance to close it down.
Yes, a try would be nice, but if you’re in the red zone, you want to be coming away with something. If you can snap three points, isn’t that a reward for getting there in the first place? It’s not an option all the time, but when it is available, I’d like my team to consider it. It’s a skill that takes planning, training, set-up and ice-cold execution.
Why continue to bang away against a brick wall defence when rugby offers a decent option to go over it for three points? A chip to the corner, a wee grubber through, a cheaky dink – all good options requiring great skill, but often these are a 50-50 option, resulting in a five or seven-pointer. Why not try to take the three if you can?
It’s nothing to do with luck. No one’s forcing you to do it. It’s not an easy thing to do, or there would be a lot more of them about.
Rugby Fan
Roar Guru
Sorry, Taylorman, not matter how many times you repeat your "ten man rugby" line, it will continue to remain untrue. I refer you to my replies when you've tried it on like that before.
RubberLegs
Guest
What rubbish, Quade plays fearlessly and with flair. Some things he attempts don't work but he is a prodigious talent who doesn't use steroids. I see no evidence that any errors he makes result from sledging by Tah fans, Kiwis and Queenslanders in tweed jackets. Look at his highlight videosand the videos of his supposed errors and you will see why he is the Wallaby #10 even under a dud Randwick coach.
Oblonsky‘s Other Pun
Roar Guru
I'm not demonising the All Blacks. I like the team, I just wish (a large segment) of their fans would live up to the standard of behaviour that the team Don't conflate my criticisms of mean-spirited gamesmanship in the form of booing as a criticism with the team itself—as I've stated even the All Blacks and Steve Hansen have been asking the crowd to stop booing. I'll throw this one right back at you, Geoff: 'the game doesnt benefit with “fans” like you around. We’re all poorer for it.' The booing is just pathetic. Perhaps it is int he rules, if simply because the officials can't really prevent it. But it is isn't in the spirit of the sport, it doesn't enhance viewer enjoyment of the sport in any way, it doesn't enhance the enjoyment of the players (either the playing being booed or the players seeing the guy get booed) in any way. Australia went through the same thing with Adam Goodes and it completely overshadowed the competition and largely ruined every match he played it. Was Goodes a bit of a jerk in my opinion? Yes. But he didn't deserve the heinous bullying of all the crowds week after week. You Kiwis are still hung up on something 5 years later. Imagine if South African fans still cried every time the Wallabies were awarded a penalty after the refereeing in the 2011 World Cup quarterfinal. It's time for that segment of the fans who still boo Cooper to grow up and start acting like adults rather than adolescents trying to bully someone at school.
I don't understand why people complain about booing. We applaud to give notice of our satisfaction , why can we not boo to give note of our displeasure? Fans even boo their own players and teams at time. We pay big money to watch a game, surely we can boo if we want?
Harry Jones
Expert
I'm pro-DG
taylorman
Roar Guru
That's true but it also requires other factors to be in play to be effective and unfortunately for the Wallabies they provided most of it. Their inability to crack a fairly simple defence allowed the Boks, and Morne, to control the game. England did the same with Farrell and Ford. Oz were unable to create opportunities to apply sufficient pressure so fell into the trap of being controlled around the park. The same players are reduced to being very ineffective against the ABs for the same reason. Pressure is created and gone are the days of 2009 when Morne was able to dictate play more. His more recent tests have all been poor, terrible in fact. Oz have just got to get over the gain line more to apply the level of pressure to stop kickers controlling the game. Hopefully Timanis selection will go some way to doing that. I'm picking tonight he could be the difference and that with that Mumm will finally step up.
geoff
Guest
By the way it was several incidents and he never apologized. Just in the spirit of honesty. The point is, the OP made an error in his assertion that QC was booed for no reason, i corrected it. There is no suggestion here he deserved it or not. I couldnt care less about the guy really. I dont think he needed to apologize for anything, he's just not particularly smart and made a habit of saying and doing dumb things. Run ins with the cops, publicly outing the team culture as toxic, needless gloating and then silly needles on the wrong player, telling NZ fans to "bring it" to him ahead of games in NZ and the RWC... he's just not a clever lad. You're also thoroughly mindless in your assertion that booing is "disgusting". Whats wrong with you? Sports fans boo. The World Over Ever heard what the English hordes get up to at Twickenham? Ever heard what goes on at Old Trafford when Man U games? Stick to gardening precious
geoff
Guest
OP decides to use it as an example of the downfall of civilization. Thats how Long bows aplenty
geoff
Guest
Meaningless contribution. The point was there was a reason for the attention QC got. The OP was insinuating that there was nothing behind it. My attitude to QC was pretty ambivalent. He's clearly not the brightest bulb but live and let live i say
geoff
Guest
Thats completely incorrect. It has EVERYTHING to do with his actions. The weakness of his mind as a result is a byproduct that (while noticeable afterwards) is something no fan had any idea about when the booing began. It's clearly obvious in the fact that he alone was singled out for this attention, it wasnt tried on every significant Wallaby to see if they'd "break". Also, what planet do you live on Fionn? Within the rules, what rules? Its booing by fans. Stop looking for reasons to demonize a team and it's fans by petty grasping, the game doesnt benefit with "fans" like you around. We're all poorer for it.
geoff
Guest
"The booing is despicable behaviour and reflects horribly on New Zealand fans" Ive heard every crowd in the world boo the opposition. The famous Irish silence for the kicker descended into massive booing in 2013 when Cruden was kicking the winning points.What great fans they are, or is it only good to not boo when it suits you? It's obvious that a method of scoring that requires nothing more than trundling up to the posts and knocking it over should be downgraded. Blindingly obvious. Most drop goals take place within trowing distance, not the 45 metre from the edge of the pitch skillfests people like to cite in these discussions. As for Quade, people didnt like it so they booed him, the point (you clearly werent bright enough to catch) was that suggesting they were booing him for any other reason than his own dirty actions is dishonest
Buk
Guest
Good points in support of the drop goal. I thought Morne Steyn's drop goals were a great reflection of how much time and practice he puts into his game - prefer it was one of ours kicking them, but you can't take away from his skill set in that regard.
Brett Susan
Guest
I think you made AVZ's made his point for him. You readily acknowledge the booing. the argument is not that it should be justified in certain cases, the argument is that it should be in our sport at all.
Geoff Foley
Roar Rookie
Yeah, we do. It basically grew out of the early games against the Tahs, booing the old enemy oppressors. Would like to have thought we were over the booing thing now though. Stark silence is much more unsettling for an opposition.
taylorman
Roar Guru
Talk about the most over discussed player. How on earth does a discussion about dropped goals turn into the booing of Cooper?
Armand van Zyl
Roar Guru
Jacko, Maybe you should read the entire post and not just the bits you want to read. How is there any bias if I included my own country on the naughty list? Fionn was smart enough to notice it. I have high hopes you will, too.
superba
Guest
The Brumbies supporters have had form on booing for many years .
richard
Guest
Yes,it probably is impractical.lIt's just a theory,and who knows,someone may find a way to make it work.
superba
Guest
Johnno I enjoyed this post of yours ! I remember the days when a test was won 3-0 and fans loved it .And if a try was scored people went beserk because it was so precious .Is the joy fans get out of rugby nowadays any greater than when players took to the field in cork studs and played with a laced up 8 panel ball ? I wonder .
taylorman
Roar Guru
Yes, and it just so happens that he played with a side that when it played against the top three SH sides, it was ten man rugby, his boot providing far (far) more points than tries, the main indicator of a ten man rugby side.