Why I welcome the concept of project players

Having mixed a bit over a few beers with a few All Blacks who have toured the British Isles over the years each and all of them admitted to the fact that of all the Countries they travelled playing rugby, Ireland was always at the top of the heap as the most enjoyable Country to visit. That's probably why old Dougie Howlett and Isa Nacewa and co have hung around there for so long and who could blame them? , lucky buggers!

'Yes I know that, Bakkies. I was speaking from an Irish perspective.' I know but there are individual posters and experts like Lord and Spiro who ignore that and post articles to generate clicks. BJ Botha, Doug Howlett, Pienaar had more then two contracts here. Howlett was two years older then Pienaar when he was extended. Munster were allowed to re-sign BJ Botha at 36 to cover tight head till the end of last season (it was initially a four month deal) then were blocked Vincent Koch (has signed with Saracens). As a result Munster signed John Andress from Edinburgh and he has a dodgy knee. Johann Muller may have more then two deals here. English and French clubs find them more attractive as they have the right attitude towards playing in Europe and are performing. Pienaar turned down big money after his first Ulster contract expired to stay here. The French love goal kicking scrum halfs who can play make. Blokes like Pienaar and Piatau are attractive to clubs as they're capped and can play the key matches when the Six Nations is on. Teams like Leinster, Ospreys, Glasgow, Toulouse, etc lose up to twenty players in this period, then chuck in injuries. Cover key positions like 9/10 along with kicking goals increases your value (look at Ben Lucas got an extended stay in Montpellier). Tight head is the same. Any young prop who has a spare cell should work on playing tight head. That's where the money is. Munster didn't sign Ben Betts to an academy contract but Leicester offered him one. For Spiro and Lord's reference Howlett is still in Ireland working for Munster and Pienaar is fishing for the same. Ex Aus 7s player Ryan Constable is still running a player management company in Belfast and commentating for BBC NI.

On reflection, Bakkies, I do get your point that uncapped players would find moving to play in Ireland less attractive, if a 3 year residency no longer changed them from being a foreign player to a IQ player. The other aspect to that is that foreign players' contracts can't be renewed by the provinces. Once they've completed their first contract, they have to move on to another country. As is happening with Ruan Pienaar, albeit he did get a contract extension until this season. Now he has to move on to free up a spot for a local player in Ulster, much to Ulster fans' anguish.

Yes I know that, Bakkies. I was speaking from an Irish perspective. So if they don't go to Ireland because of the 4+1 quota/position specific restrictions and longer residency for qualification, then they may not be sought after by provinces. But why would English/French clubs find them more attractive is what I'm asking? Indeed, Peter said longer residency period would be more attractive to "any club". Why?

yes , but when he went he did not know about that. read his wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Waldrom

Pot he is implying that players will be less likely to move to places like Ireland where it take them 5 years to be regarded as a local player rather then be seen as a limited NIQ quota. Munster, Ulster and Leinster are only allowed 4 NIQs in their squads which also require IRFU approval. This is regardless of whether they are capped by Ireland. After completing the residency they become an option for the selectors to consider for the Irish squad and it allows the province to keep extending their contracts.

Waldrom has an English grandparent which allows him to qualify to play for England

'at the same time all you are doing is showing that Ireland have given up on having an effective development process for its own up and coming players' Sorry Laurie but that's nonsense. Ireland have more young players then ever coming through the systems here.

Peter, why do you assert that increasing the time period means foreign players are more attractive to clubs? I don't recall any clubs stating something like that. Generally the contracts offered are three years duration maximum. It is very rare that longer ones would be put on the table. The player may not make it for a number of reasons. Players may still wish to play outside their country. But increasing the residency requirement means that the possibility of being able to play test rugby is taken off the table.

@ Poth Ale " If World Rugby, in the meantime, decide to change the residency rules, then any player currently less than three years will now face a longer wait and may change their mind on what they want to do. " it will depend on the age of the players first and foremost. there were guys like Waldrom who went to England at an advanced age ( i think he was like 27) with the hope of qualifying for England on residency. ( what happened later is now folklore :) ) countries that start porjects target players at a young age . i think one NZ under 20 guy went over to ireland or scotland at around 21 and Bundee Aki was like 23 or 24 when he went over. what needs a cull is the grand parent rule , which is silly in this day and age where migration for varios reasons is a norm. mother , father and country of birth shud be the criteria . if the IRB is to increase the residency period then countries would look at getting hold of players from the schoolyard. although at national level it does not happen but in club football , players as young as 11 or 12 are getting contracted for youth academies based on deemed-talent. recently there was the story of a kid aged 4 , whose mother had posted a video of him playing footy on the internet and Manchester City had approached her to see if he can be contracted to them !!!!

Increasing the residency rule means foreign players are even more attractive to english and french clubs, in fact any clubs. They know they will have them for more years and won't lose them to test rugby. So in fact the player drain may increase. Unintended consequences.

Thanks Poth. Explains plenty of what strategy is behind the Irish policies.

Exactly. It's the same as bringing in a foreign worker in any field, denying an actually citizen a chance at having the job. There's no shortage of locals vying for the position, and if you deem them not good enough, then maybe a big question has to be asked about education, training, support, etc for your domestic workers. It seems Ireland are doing just that where rugby is concerned, and good on them. I wish my country would as well.

The notion of the project player in Irish rugby came from its Player Succession Strategy launched in 2012. This set out to ensure there would at minimum two test quality Irish qualified players in every position. It arose in part from the influx of foreign capped players into the provinces which some felt was holding back domestic players. The paucity of qualified props at one point led to Michael Bent, who qualified through grandparents, being bought by Leinster and immediately put into the Ireland test team immediately. The IRFU then set a policy of restricting the number of foreign players in a squad to 4 foreign capped players and one uncapped player who might become Irish qualified through residency. These foreign.players limits were also restricted to only allowing one in every position across the provinces of Leinster, Munster and Ulster. The IRFU CEO Phillip Browne has said they're happy with the current rule of 3 years residency, but if it changes to 5 or 7 as advocated by Agustin Pichot, then they'll be happy with that change. One could argue that Browne's response indicates that he knows the notion of project players is not going to last, and his union is already taking steps in anticipation of that. Earlier this year, the IRFU said at the launch of its Annual Report that it could no longer be the lender of last resort for,the provinces. That salaries were getting higher and higher with the monies flowing into the English and French leagues, and the IRFU was not going to endlessly compete with this. Instead the provinces budgets would be restricted on contracting foreign players, and the IRFU was instead going to invest more money into the domestic development pathway - €10m in last three years. Domestic Players not getting game time are being encouraged to move around the provinces more rather than moving to U.K. or French clubs. David Nucifora who heads up player development within the Irish union has been pushing the provinces to tap into and develop players at league club level and from within the academies. Pat Lam in particular has uncovered some potential pearls going this route with Connacht and their smaller playing budget. Nucifora and Schmidt are now aiming to have 3 test quality players developed in every position in time for RWC 2019. It's likely that players such as CJ Stander will be part of that. Strauss may be too old at that point and Jared Payne may be surplus to requirements. Quinn Roux is another possibility, For a player such as Bundee Aki, it remains to be seen as to whether he will stay in Ireland after his contract finishes at end of this season. He has said that he's undecided as to what he will do, but it's possible that a French or English club could wave big money at him, and he decides to move. His compatriots, Jake Heenan and Tom McCartney who play with him at Connacht will hit three years next year. Will they stay or will they move country? Heenan as a backrower will see a long queue ahead of him to get a possible international jersey and may decide to move on depending on offers. McCartney as a hooker, may have better chances since they are in low supply. If World Rugby, in the meantime, decide to change the residency rules, then any player currently less than three years will now face a longer wait and may change their mind on what they want to do.

B H H, you place a lot of emphasis on " culture" yet at the same time all you are doing is showing that Ireland have given up on having an effective development process for its own up and coming players,Who would want to play for a national team with that culture? Jared Payne was born in Bay of Plenty, educated in Nelson,Played provincial rugby for Northland, played super rugby for The Chiefs, played International Rugby for Ireland, whatever way you dress it up he is doing Ireland a favour, to be honest though he was never going to be an All Black.

A pretty weak argument that ignores the economics and equity issues at stake.